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American Graffiti - Original Cut Restoration (Mechanical Assistance/Telecine Experts Needed!) (* unfinished project *) - lots of information... — Page 2

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Here's a pretty raw capture from reel 3: http://www.mediafire.com/?n512bgjw50g7t42

I hear "Some Enchanted Evening" at about the 14 minute mark, so I guess this is the reissue. In any case, I'm still planning on transferring it, as no good transfer exists (the Blu-ray is horrid - I saw it today and if you thought Star Wars was waxy, wait until you see this!). It was shot on Techniscope and should look it!

I plan on scanning emulsion side (we'll see how that works) at at least 1080p resolution (we're adapting a camera to make it work), so it should have a pretty good picture. 

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 (Edited)

I wonder what the state of the actual original camera negatives for American Graffiti and THX 1138 are in. 

I mean we know they took the star wars negative out in 93 or 94 and found out it had only about 60% of its original colors left or something like that.

Graffiti and THX were not effects heavy films. 

So they probably did not have the problem of the bad color reversal stock.  But they were still made in the era that films were shot are now known to be at risk because of the bad Eastman Kodak stock.

I mean what did they send up to Lowry, i don't think it was the o-negs.  Maybe a generation later than that? 

Not to derail the thread or anything but i wonder just how much grain is on o-negs, and how much color fade or if they are even in the Lucasfilm archives like Willow, Indiana jones and the 4 star wars films.

Or if they are in Universals and Warner's vault holdings.  I do know that USC has the negatives or at least dupe negs of Lucas student films and he only has copies at Skywalker since USC owns them.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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If nothing else, this is good for capturing the original title card. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Sorry for the lack of response, ww12345. Hadn't noticed this. Thanks for posting an audio sample, will check it out.

bkev said:

If nothing else, this is good for capturing the original title card. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like.

If you have never seen the original opening, here is a sample:

 http://www.sendspace.com/file/bnsn8v

my idea was to splice in the LD-footage with the DVD transfer but the low quality of the LD transfer in comparison with the DVD footage would never make a successful blend. When checking this out, I noticed that not only was the opening titles redone, the Lucasfilm/Coppola card was recomposited and for some reason the footage of Dreyfuss introduction got shifted by one frame, which means; when his car enters the frame, it's one frame earlier than the original and the last shot ends one frame before the original.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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ww12345 said:

I plan on scanning emulsion side (we'll see how that works) at at least 1080p resolution (we're adapting a camera to make it work), so it should have a pretty good picture. 

Sorry to be a little late to this party. I saw your color corrections and wondered if you'd describe your methodology.
I've been trying to work out an approach (with details beginning here on msycamore's THX 1138 thread) based on an analysis of the problem of film fading. The re-expansion of the faded color "compressed ranges" consistantly produces good results. It always amazes me just how easy and precise it is (an "eyedropper" helps for the colors' numbers):

Each chart shows the corresponding R-G-B compression spread and the settings for new beginning points of 0 on the low end, and 255 on the high. Other settings (gamma, midtones) can further fine-tune to counter-act the non-uniformity of the fade.

I hope you will also document, in detail, the equipment and software and approach of your custom transfers. With lots of pictures, too! :)

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Those are really good changes. My color correction is mainly done by eye - I haven't gotten into specifics yet because I have no footage (yet) with which to test it. You've got a PM. :)

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ww12345 said:

My color correction is mainly done by eye - ... You've got a PM. :)

Thanks, got it.

Are you using a paint program itself or a dedicated plug-in for your sample corrections?

BTW, the film, when stretch out to full size, is slightly wider but noticeably shorter than the 1998 DVD (which may be different again in later releases):

And it looks like George Lucas' historical revisionism has grafitti'ed this movie, too (is this some kind of self-loathing?). He's tinted the entire frame because ... why? Who knows:

But not quite to the end of that right edge!

BTW ...
" 'American Graffiti' got tagged on Blu-ray, and I don't mean one of those artistic railcar pieces of 'art.' I mean misspelled words and phallic drawings, with the phrase 'DNR wuz here!' " - High Def Digest: American Graffiti: Special Edition (Blu-ray) review -- giving it 2 of 5 stars for HD Video Quality!
Anyone surprised?

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I was using Photoshop with the curves corrector, but plan on using PFClean when I'm doing the actual color processing.

Interesting about the tint/frame size difference...

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Nice catch Spaced Ranger! The always satisfied Lucas...

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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 (Edited)

ww12345 said:

Interesting about the tint/frame size difference...

I was thinking about that. If the blue tint was removed (using "Manual Color Correction" of a paint program to set the off-kilter RGB value of the B&W portraits back to it's R=G=B value, applied to the entire image), what would be revealed?

Well, what do you know? Really close to my previous "quick & dirty" color correction.

.

msycamore said:

Nice catch Spaced Ranger! The always satisfied Lucas...

Thanks, but only because I remembered that jingle from Brazil:
Lucas Films! You do the buy, we do revising! 

.

SilverWook said:

Any way to do a frame comparison with that letterboxed Ebay print? I know the images of it are pretty lousy...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Rare-Original-16mm-Reels-of-the-movie-American-Graffiti-/350623008295?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a2c28627

$800 ... ouch! My wallet is having sympathy pains!
The posted images weren't too bad (this one had most objects for lining up, but is poorly lit) ...

... and I was able to line it up to show the little addition vertically but noticeable loss horizontally:

The eBay film here was resized to match and is 25% transparent to let through some of the underlying DVD capture (still at non-stretched DVD-anamorphic).

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Thanks for doing that, Spaced Ranger. It seems both anamorphic and adapted scope 16mm lose a tiny bit of picture info.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

A quick check shows that the 1998 DVD ("Collector's Edition") and 2011 Blu-ray releases are near-identical cropped - so we can't expect any more real estate from the official source. That said, the Blu looks better (but the Blu may be GL-tinkered(tm) and not restored as it was shot & released in 1973).

<-- DVD (region 1) 1998

<-- Blu (r. A/B/C) 2011

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^^ Looks like the ugly old PAL release. Here's how the '98 NTSC DVD 2004 Drive-In Double Feature DVD looks like in that shot:

Quite cold color timing. A little tighter framing on the epilogue in the '04 DVD:

Spaced Ranger said:

I was thinking about that. If the blue tint was removed (using "Manual Color Correction" of a paint program to set the off-kilter RGB value of the B&W portraits back to it's R=G=B value, applied to the entire image), what would be revealed? Well, what do you know? Really close to my previous "quick & dirty" color correction.

msycamore said:

Nice catch Spaced Ranger! The always satisfied Lucas...

Thanks, but only because I remembered that jingle from Brazil:
Lucas Films! You do the buy, we do revising!

;) Nice demonstration, not that I doubted it but it also clearly show us that the sepia in the portraits was removed deliberately.

Edit: On the other hand, it could be the result of a re-composite, altered nevertheless.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Oh, my bad, so that was the region 1 release, didn't know it had such a shitty transfer! Sorry, my screenshots weren't taken from the 1998 Collector's Edition DVD, they were actually taken from the 2004 Drive-In Double Feature DVD, didn't realize that it used a superior transfer to the '98 DVD.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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skyjedi2005 said:

I wonder what the state of the actual original camera negatives for American Graffiti and THX 1138 are in. 

I mean we know they took the star wars negative out in 93 or 94 and found out it had only about 60% of its original colors left or something like that.

Graffiti and THX were not effects heavy films. 

So they probably did not have the problem of the bad color reversal stock.  But they were still made in the era that films were shot are now known to be at risk because of the bad Eastman Kodak stock.

I mean what did they send up to Lowry, i don't think it was the o-negs.  Maybe a generation later than that? 

Not to derail the thread or anything but i wonder just how much grain is on o-negs, and how much color fade or if they are even in the Lucasfilm archives like Willow, Indiana jones and the 4 star wars films.

Or if they are in Universals and Warner's vault holdings.  I do know that USC has the negatives or at least dupe negs of Lucas student films and he only has copies at Skywalker since USC owns them.

THX is the outsider being Techniscope. If not properly stored these films can go baaaaad very very fast. This is why there have been so many different MGM and Italian restorations of the Leone westerns. Somehow, I don't see Warner doing anything with THX besides sticking it on the shelf so there still should be some decent vault elements out there not in LFL, perhaps also even of the theatrical recut.

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I thought Graffiti was also Techniscope?

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The Blu-Ray of this looks so waxy and fake, looking forward to a possible restoration of this, might have to design a new Blu-Ray cover or something along those lines.

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Had the HDNet broadcast of this on the dvr for years.  Owned that 2004 DVD double feature version as well.  The Blu-ray has gotten a lot of flack.  Comparing all of these versions I have to say the Blu-ray, even with DNR, still has the most vibrant color.  The blacks are inky and solid compared to HDNet.  Desert island pick for me is still the Blu-ray.
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I don't think anyone is debating the transfer quality o the BD. I think what people are talking about is the fact that the colors/other elements are changed. Sure, the blacks may be inky and the other colors "pop," but so do the colors in the Star Wars SE. It's just not the original release. 

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That's a nice looking print of AG. Is someone here going after it?

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Where were you in '77?

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The first link is already sold. The second one looks great, it is a shame that there is 20 mins of faded Eastman though.

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