All Things Star Trek — Page 49

SilverWook said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

As for Vic he had maybe 15 minutes and two episodes out of two seasons on DS9 and he was a good character played by an actor who could sing?!  I mean it may be the only time in Tv history a character who was a singer was played by an actor who could sing and if you want to understand why fans like myself love him then take a look at this.  It's one of my favorite episodes of Star Trek fullstop and and I think this review says it all.

 

 I didn't grow up with that show and I only saw a couple of episodes on ME TV this past weekend and you are right they can sing,and shockingly the show is pretty good.  I kind of blanked on them,sorry.

Still given that it was Star trek and the way TV is done in general I have to say I was shocked when Vic showed up on Ds9 and his singing didn't make me want to pierce my eardrums with an icepick.

Oh and I agree his episodes and the Baseball episodes work because I think both the crew and the viewers needed to unwind and think about something besides the war from time to time.

It's only a paper Moon was a really good way of dealing with the PTSD without sweeping it under the rug or making the episode too depressing and it is number seven on my personal list of favorite Star Trek episodes.

SilverWook said:

No worries.

I am amazed Vic didn't figure into any time travel episodes though. ;)

 Maybe if there had been a season eight or he had showed up on Enterprise:)

:)

I have heard of T.J Hooker(In fact I just picked up the first two seasons a couple of weeks ago) but I have no idea what that other show is and now I want to check it out.

doubleofive said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

As for Vic he had maybe 15 minutes and two episodes out of two seasons on DS9 and he was a good character played by an actor who could sing?!  I mean it may be the only time in Tv history a character who was a singer was played by an actor who could sing and if you want to understand why fans like myself love him then take a look at this.  It's one of my favorite episodes of Star Trek fullstop and and I think this review says it all.

"It's Only A Paper Moon" is your favorite episode of Trek? I don't even know what to say to that.

 I said ONE OF,and then I latter stated that it was number seven.  It was a very well written episode and I can't think of a thing I would change.  it found a way to deal with PTSD brought on by war without reducing it to nothing or letting the episode get depressing,that is pretty amazing for a TV show if you ask me and I like it a little more ever time I watch it so i am not ashamed to put it in my top ten.

SilverWook said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

:)

I have heard of T.J Hooker(In fact I just picked up the first two seasons a couple of weeks ago) but I have no idea what that other show is and now I want to check it out.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Tunnel

 Thanks a bunch!:)

Well why don't I like Vic? I've been thinking about it and these are some of the conclusions I came up with

- singing - I hate singing in movies. Or TV shows. If I'm at home I always try to find the "fast forward" or "next chapter" buttons on my remote. I have nothing against songs or music in general, I just feel they don't belong into "normal" movies & shows - they belong to musicals

- jazz in general - maybe if he would sing something of the 350 genres I like, I would be able to at least tolerate him.

- his "bar" or what is the correct term - it seems to me like a bad version of Quark's bar. I love Quark's bar, that was a very interesting and funny place. The holographic "jazz club" isn't. Why is it even there?

- why do they have 2 bars? Seriously from a story telling point of view, what sense does it make? There was just one episode I can remember LIKING which had the holographic club in it, and that was the "Ocean's eleven" type of episode where they stole money from the new owner

Some of you have suggested I have something against inteligent holograms. Well I started to think about all intelligent holograms which were in the franchise starting with Minnuet (or whatever the spelling is) in the Bynar episode of TNG, and ending with Robert Picardo's doctor, and I really wanted to write you a list of intelligent holograms I like. And then I realised the list is empty. Yes, I don't like ANY intelligent hologram they used on "modern" Star Trek. I don't really know why, maybe it's a sort of a "professional deformation" - I know what it's possible to program and what not. And if I can't BELIEVE a character, I can't LIKE the character. I can't actually get any emotional involvement with the character, so episodes like when the doctor wanted to fight for rights of other holograms - WTF?

SilverWook said:

Lounge is the correct term. In any case, Quark's didn't have Vegas dancing girls. :)

Isn't an intelligent hologram just like Data, but without a permanent physical form?

If we're going to get into Trek concepts that aren't possible with today's technology, we're going to be here a while. ;)

 Yeah under that Logic they shouldn't have had Data on TNG since he was just software and how can you believe in him,he had to have the exact same software so how come he is okay?  In fact he is less believable the the holograms since we never see the computers that store their software so for all we know they could be huge but Data somehow fit all of that programing into into something the size of a human head. If anything Data is the one that is hard to believe in. Not to mention he can somehow eat and drink and have sex,you don't seem to have any problem believing in that stuff.

Also I have to wonder why someone who has something against things that can't be done with today's technology would be watching Sci-Fi in the first place since seeing things that can't be done yet is kind of the whole point of the genre. Oh and under the logic of if you can't believe it you can't like it then I should point out warp drives and transporters can't exist either. So it seems like it's Star trek you have problem with and not the characters or how they were written. There is nothing the writers could do writing Star Trek that would please you under your logic. They would have to stop writing Star trek to make you happy.

Oh and Vic's lounge is nothing like Quarks and Jazz rules. I love Jazz and that whole time period,Vic did a good job with the songs so I even got some enjoyment out of His way which was a pretty awful episode but the scenes with Vic help hold it up and an episode I would give a 1 out of 10 got a 4 out of 10 from me.  That's pretty good.

Oh and I have to wonder what music someone who says they hate all Jazz likes that they think Jazz had no impact on.

Oh and as for fighting for the rights of Holograms you may not think it can be programed but the fact is look at what they had done up to that point and tell me that doesn't make them people who should have rights and shouldn't be used as slave labor,that is what that episode was about and even with as many problems as I have with Voyager I think that last shot did a good job of making that point.

1) Data is not "just software" - an android is something absolutely different than just software

2) There is no chance that you can create an intelligent hologram. A hologram which will be able to KNOW he/she/it is a hologram. A hologram which will be able to correctly react to ANY situation. It's just NOT possible. Not even theoretically. That's the problem. The Doctor was "too perfect" to be real. His reaction most of the time should be "I am not programmed to correctly reply to your question". That has absolutely nothing to do with science fiction, it's just fiction, more precisely a fairytale.

Do you remember the Minuete (? - sorry I can't really remember the correct spelling of her name) character from the Bynar episode from TNG's first season? She was programmed to seduce men, especially Riker and she was GREAT at it. BUT ... when they tried to get any other information from her, her response was something like "I don't know, it's not a part of my programming" - and that is absolutely CORRECT and absolutely BELIEVABLE. The Doctor however was able to react to ANY situation, which is just impossible. Not "impossible NOW", simply IMPOSSIBLE.

Jazz - well, everybody likes different music and different historical eras, that's absolutely normal. But as I said I can't stand songs in movies or TV shows. Vic was singing, that means in my view he was wasting my time. Simple as that.

So like the Taliban you think all music should be banned,interesting. Oh and Data sang and played musical instruments in several episodes so why don't you have this deep seated personal hatred of him.

 You know nothing of computers so you can't say what is possible. If Data could be programed to do it when he was made by one man on a backwater planet almost 40 years before how is it so hard to believe that a team of people working in a state of the art lab with unlimited funds couldn't do the same thing when they had more advanced and bigger hardware and software to work with? Also Data learned new things over seven years so how is it impossible that Holodoc could learn new things in the same time?  Data's personality and everything he knows comes from software just like holodeck character.  The software is stored on hardware but it's the software that makes things work.  Look at the computer you are using right now,if you take all the software off of it then it can't do a thing and that is how Data would be without software. Remember we saw a few times when his memory was wiped and no hardware was involved and just like a Holodeck character Data couldn't remember what had happened to him so he is software in a body just like them. Oh and remember when Data downloaded his daughter's memories,he didn't have to attach her body to his,if androids are hardware then he would have had to walk around with her head on top of his but he didn't do that he downloaded he memories.  if you know even the most basic think about computers and what they can do then you know that only software can be downloaded,not hardware. Oh and how is it more believable that software could be made for Data then it could be for a holodeck character. Oh and in season one of TNG Holodecks were brand new,are you saying that technology never changes or upgrades because Vic and the Doctor were created more then a decade latter by people who had been working on them all their lives. You are saying there is no way that the holograms could have been upgraded? You have in fact stated that at no time in human history has any computer program ever been updated or improved.  You have stated that it is impossible to ever improve technology.  Well I have news for you my $100 cellphone now has more memory,processing power,and a more complex operation system then the $700 desktop computer that I had a decade ago.  That is how fast things have advanced in a decade. It is not impossible as you stated,it's part of our every day life. Also the early Holodeck characters could become self aware by themselves so how is it so hard to believe that someone could program them and do on purpose what had been done a decade earlier by mistake?  If you don't believe science can discover new things and solve new problems I really don't think your problem is with these characters but with Star Trek in general.

Oh and please don't try to tell me what is possible with computers,I have built four computers from the ground up and watched AI being programed for games. So I have a very firm grasp on what is possible and how computers work. Oh and try to remember how far computers have come just since the early 90s and remember that Star trek is set more then 300 years in the future. Many people didn't think that the things computers can do today would ever be possible just a couple of decades ago when they were running off of DOS. Remember this is a future where kids learn advanced algebra in second grade and the computers can hold a human brain if needed,these are very smart people using very advanced hardware and software.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

So like the Taliban you think all music should be banned,interesting.

 Does not compute.

FanFiltration said:

Now here is some old school Star Trek. Anyone else here that is old enough to have played this classic game on a dos box?

 *raises hand*

Though I don't know what you mean by a "dos box."  I played it on what was commonly called an IBM.

TV's Frink said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

So like the Taliban you think all music should be banned,interesting.

 Does not compute.

 He said any music within a film or a Tv show is a waste of time so I was just mocking that view point.  the fact is music has been used to help tell the stories in films before there was even sound in movies.

TV's Frink said:

FanFiltration said:

Now here is some old school Star Trek. Anyone else here that is old enough to have played this classic game on a dos box?

 *raises hand*

Though I don't know what you mean by a "dos box."  I played it on what was commonly called an IBM.

 Dosbox is a program that emulates the dos operating system allowing you to play Dos games on windows based PCs.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

TV's Frink said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

So like the Taliban you think all music should be banned,interesting.

 Does not compute.

 He said any music within a film or a Tv show is a waste of time so I was just mocking that view point.  the fact is music has been used to help tell the stories in films before there was even sound in movies.

 You suck at reading.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

TV's Frink said:

FanFiltration said:

Now here is some old school Star Trek. Anyone else here that is old enough to have played this classic game on a dos box?

 *raises hand*

Though I don't know what you mean by a "dos box."  I played it on what was commonly called an IBM.

 Dosbox is a program that emulates the dos operating system allowing you to play Dos games on windows based PCs.

 Thanks, Ric.  You don't have to be old to play this game on it.

TV's Frink said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

TV's Frink said:

FanFiltration said:

Now here is some old school Star Trek. Anyone else here that is old enough to have played this classic game on a dos box?

 *raises hand*

Though I don't know what you mean by a "dos box."  I played it on what was commonly called an IBM.

 Dosbox is a program that emulates the dos operating system allowing you to play Dos games on windows based PCs.

 Thanks, Ric.  You don't have to be old to play this game on it.

 Yeah I play a lot of old games using Dosbox.