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All Things Star Trek — Page 34

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I don't think the entire run needed redemption. Indeed once Kes left the boat the show became more interesting than TNG and DS9 from my viewing position.

Similarly once the second half of the second season of Enterprise got out of the way it became equally tolerable.

The real shame with all these programmes is the underused potential.

TNG became a soap.

DS9 rarely moved away from the suspiciously B5ish plots with lesser performances.

VOY explored strange new worlds and new life that looked and felt like worlds and life of the OS most of the time.

And ENT just paid lip service to the idea of the technology being more primitive. in almost every respect it was TNG with a different cast and a dog instead of a cat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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As far as I'm concerned, Star Trek jumped a small shark when the writers decided to explain -- in an incredibly stupid, pseudoscientific way -- why so many aliens in the galaxy look just like humans with goofy wrinkles on their foreheads.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

As far as I'm concerned, Star Trek jumped a small shark when the writers decided to explain -- in an incredibly stupid, pseudoscientific way -- why so many aliens in the galaxy look just like humans with goofy wrinkles on their foreheads.

Doctor Who has a similar explanation why so many aliens in the galaxy look just like Time Lords without goofy wrinkles on their foreheads but it did it's EU.

It also explained why everyone seems to speak contemporary UK English on air before Star Trek explained why everyone spoke American English (even the French speaking with an English accent).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Sadako said:

3. Is The Prime Directive a good thing? In these episodes, captains must wrestle with Starfleet Directive #1: Starfleet may not interfere in the social order of any planet.

TNG 03x04 Who Watches the Watchers/ENT 01x13 Dear Doctor

(Bonus: The opening segment of Star Trek Into Darkness deals directly with the question of the Prime Directive, and more to the point, it emphasizes the gravity that the Federation and Starfleet gives to it's Directive #1 by actually punishing someone for violating it.)

So I asked because I was specifically wondering if "Dear Doctor" made the list. Thank you for answering! Yeah I thought if any episode should be there it should be that one or the one with Data and the alien kid(Pen Pals I think). Tuvix is another good episode. All in all nice list you've got there.

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When the PD morphed into "no warp drive, no contact", some early TNG episodes stick out like a sore thumb. I could just swallow it being revised since Kirk's era, although I can't see any non Federation races paying it any heed.

That episode with Worf's brother, where Picard stands around while a planet's civilization was dying as their atmosphere bled away pissed me off though. Definitely a WWJTKD? moment. ;)

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Yeah, Pen Pals and Homeward are episodes where the PD is basically just thrown in to create conflict (kind of like that Season 1 episode where the racist stereotype kidnapped Tasha to be his bride--about halfway through they were like 'This is a Prime Directive episode now!', and it was stupid).

Homeward seemed like a REALLY weak PD justification--I get that it's basically a rough draft of Dear Doctor, and it tries to raise a question (too bad that question is so easily answered). But the fact that, if the society had been more advanced, they would have happily tried to save the planet (like in Deja Q, where they try to stop the moon from crashing, and all of the other gajillion episodes where they intercede because the society is advanced enough to have radio) rubs me the wrong way.

On the other hand, why isn't Journey's End a Prime Directive episode? Why isn't every interaction with the Crystalline Entity a Prime Directive episode? Why isn't The Masterpiece Society a Prime Directive episode until, like, the last 30 seconds? (And at that point, why bother? The episode already asked a big enough question.) And what about 'Suddenly Human', where they decide to disrupt things because it's a human kid (as if they would have happily turned over a teenage Worf if the Klingons showed up one day and said 'He's one of our species, give him back to us')?

And this is why I have a Prime Directive Day, lol.

(Just wish I could have found a good way to work in a 'Good Troi Episode' day, and showed Face of the Enemy.)

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I just have to say that I dislike Worf for the same reasons (well, one of the same reasons) I dislike the pre-Crisis Superman -- he was raised by humans on a human world in a predominantly human environment, but instead of embracing his adopted human heritage, he completely disregards it in favour of a culture that he hasn't been a part of since he was a small child.

Worf should have been the Spock of TNG -- ie. someone whose nature was constantly at war with their nuturing. Instead, he was just a big, dumb joke who constantly spouted that Klingon honour bullshit while serving as some villain-of-the-week's punching bag.

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I get what you are saying but often adopted children upon discovering some aspect or quirk of the culture of their biological parents run with it in the manner of Supes and Worf so it's not an issue for me.

Neither is Luke and Leia's initial attraction before discover they have been retconned into being biologically related to each other as that has real life form as well.

I just found the whole light bulb head on a barrel chest difficult to watch especially after seeing this.

The post First Contact uniforms and the shorter hair helped him look less silly I thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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I feel like we would need to learn about/hear from crosscultural adoptees to really talk about this?

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DuracellEnergizer said:


I just have to say that I dislike Worf for the same reasons (well, one of the same reasons) I dislike the pre-Crisis Superman -- he was raised by humans on a human world in a predominantly human environment, but instead of embracing his adopted human heritage, he completely disregards it in favour of a culture that he hasn't been a part of since he was a small child.

Worf should have been the Spock of TNG -- ie. someone whose nature was constantly at war with their nuturing. Instead, he was just a big, dumb joke who constantly spouted that Klingon honour bullshit while serving as some villain-of-the-week's punching bag.
I can see where you're coming from. But as for Worf being the Spock, Trek saves that kind of thing for people who are half-breeds, Torres on Voyager actually deals with warring natures a few times.

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So in scifi, your heritage has nothing to do with anything, it's all in your genes.

Except if you clone Picard and put him to work in a Reman mine, he'll go evil with no reservations.

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It could be that these tropes come from *deep breath* the 'new world'.

America for example is a largely immigrant nation where it's very likely that a Polish Jewish woman may marry a Roman Catholic Irish man and the child would have a cultural/ethnic mix in and environment not shared with both parents.

It would make sense then if you are to tell stories of future interplanetary colonialists to draw upon the recent history of colonialism in our history.

Ergo all these half human half something else characters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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That conflict with his heritage was one of the things I really liked about Worf's relationship with K'Ehleyr, and then his relationship with Alexander.

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timdiggerm said:

I feel like we would need to learn about/hear from crosscultural adoptees to really talk about this?

 Well, my crackerasscracker family has two adopted cousins, one Mexican. She defenitly went through several super-embracing-Mexicanosity periods throughout her life. She once told me even as a little girl, before she knew she was.adopted, she knew she was different and never felt right singing Danny Boy with our clan.

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TheBoost said:

timdiggerm said:

I feel like we would need to learn about/hear from crosscultural adoptees to really talk about this?

 Well, my crackerasscracker family has two adopted cousins, one Mexican. She defenitly went through several super-embracing-Mexicanosity periods throughout her life. She once told me even as a little girl, before she knew she was.adopted, she knew she was different and never felt right singing Danny Boy with our clan.

Danny boy is our family banshee anthem, my mother thought hearing it heralded a death in the family so we get anxious when it starts up remembering mum screeching at us to turn the Radio/Tv/Ice-Cream Van/Passing marching band off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Tobar said:


In a couple weeks I will be embarking upon the odyssey that is STAR TREK: THE VIDEO GAME. It's dangerous to go alone so I'll be co-oping it. Wish us luck!
My wife and I rented it and played through it in a weekend. It's not absolutely terrible, and its kind of fun to run around the JJprise. You just have to ignore that it's "canon" since it contradicts the "Countdown to Darkness" prequel comic AND lines from Into Darkness.

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Commander Courage said:

Star Trek is my first true geek love, so I'll have to go back and peruse through this entire thread but in the meantime, check out this extended ending to "The City on the Edge of Forever" that I ...found. ;)

"The City on the Edge of Forever" Extended Ending:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plbmvkxpl5o&feature=share&list=UUeLdyZnPg-3ldU8R_NU-sMg

 I'm not quite sure which one would have worked better. That is a nice scene, but I don't exactly feel like it's originally attached to the best of episodes (Requiem for Methuselah).

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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Bingowings said:

It could be that these tropes come from *deep breath* the 'new world'.

America for example is a largely immigrant nation where it's very likely that a Polish Jewish woman may marry a Roman Catholic Irish man and the child would have a cultural/ethnic mix in and environment not shared with both parents.

It would make sense then if you are to tell stories of future interplanetary colonialists to draw upon the recent history of colonialism in our history.

Ergo all these half human half something else characters.

 Besides the totally nonsense biology I've always hated the "two halves of me are warring!" crap. IIRC that was Torres's first line in Voyage. Even before I had biracial children, I felt it crossed a line from lazy writing towards paternalistic racism.