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"Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival." What was the point? — Page 5

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Alderaan said:

crissrudd4554 said:

And yes you’re right Vader leaving Bespin and arriving on the Star Destroyer definitely could have been executed in the original film so the motivation for the change is unclear.

They were running out of time on ESB and Lucas was only concerned about getting things done. It’s also true that he doesn’t really like the film, or at least thinks it’s the worst Star Wars movie, probably because it was the one that he had the least creative input into.

Sure, Lucas was still a big part of Empire, but Kersh and Kurtz were more in control of making the movie than anyone besides George has ever been in any of the non-Disney movies, and it shows.

When it comes to the most important creative aspects like story, screenplay, concepts, final cut, etc. Lucas pretty much had the same level of input/control as in the other two films. The only aspect that Kershner and Kurtz were actually in control was principal photography, until it spiralled out of control (i.e. went seriously over schedule/budget).

真実

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Sorry Imp, but I don’t think you know too much about this. Kersh didn’t shoot any master shots on Empire, which kept Lucas from fucking up the movie in the editing room. That was the main reason he stood over Marquand’s shoulder the entire time during filming of ROTJ.

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Alderaan said:

Sorry Imp, but I don’t think you know too much about this. Kersh didn’t shoot any master shots on Empire, which kept Lucas from fucking up the movie in the editing room. That was the main reason he stood over Marquand’s shoulder the entire time during filming of ROTJ.

I have heard of this “theory” before. There are plenty of master shots in the film, which is obvious proof that this “theory” is false. Anyway, it is not like you just need master shots to play around in the editing room. The amount of different takes is what actually matters. And the reality is that they did so many takes that editing was like playing in a sandbox compared to ANH.

The main reason he stood over Marquand’s shoulder was because he did not want the film to go twice over budget and twice over schedule.

真実

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Lucas thought ESB should have been made worse for less money. He got his way the next time around.

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DominicCobb said:

Lucas thought ESB should have been made worse for less money. He got his way the next time around.

I highly doubt he thought that. I see you are completely detached from reality like the guy in the other thread (http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1050968). Budget/time constraints are there for a reason - not to bankrupt. He most likely wanted to make as good film as possible within the given budget/time constraints. For that you need a director who can make great shots in minimum amount of time.

And your statement is especially stupid, considering Lucas put everything he had into the film. The evidence of that is that he had to go to Fox for extra 10 Million after it went over schedule/budget.

真実

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I’m sorry you can’t accept the plain fact that ROTJ is worse than ESB but you don’t have to come up with elaborate rationalizations to prove otherwise to yourself.

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DominicCobb said:

I’m sorry you can’t accept the plain fact that ROTJ is worse than ESB but you don’t have to come up with elaborate rationalizations to prove otherwise to yourself.

I am sorry you cannot understand what is being argued here. There was no comparison to ROTJ with regards to which is better, let alone me expressing any preference. I simply pointed out the stupidity of your statement regarding budget.

真実

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imperialscum said:

DominicCobb said:

I’m sorry you can’t accept the plain fact that ROTJ is worse than ESB but you don’t have to come up with elaborate rationalizations to prove otherwise to yourself.

I am sorry you cannot understand what is being argued here. There was no comparison to ROTJ with regards to which is better, let alone me expressing any preference. I simply pointed out the stupidity of your statement regarding budget.

I’m glad you’re confident enough in your argument that you have to resort to ad hominem to demonstrate how right you are. Sad!

“I’m in a dark theater. The movie starts, and I start to see things that I recognize.” - James Cameron on Terminator Genisys

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Judge said:

imperialscum said:

DominicCobb said:

I’m sorry you can’t accept the plain fact that ROTJ is worse than ESB but you don’t have to come up with elaborate rationalizations to prove otherwise to yourself.

I am sorry you cannot understand what is being argued here. There was no comparison to ROTJ with regards to which is better, let alone me expressing any preference. I simply pointed out the stupidity of your statement regarding budget.

I’m glad you’re confident enough in your argument that you have to resort to ad hominem to demonstrate how right you are. Sad!

He might as well change his username to something reflecting this.

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imperialscum said:

DominicCobb said:

Lucas thought ESB should have been made worse for less money. He got his way the next time around.

I highly doubt he thought that. I see you are completely detached from reality like the guy in the other thread (http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1050968). Budget/time constraints are there for a reason - not to bankrupt. He most likely wanted to make as good film as possible within the given budget/time constraints. For that you need a director who can make great shots in minimum amount of time.

And your statement is especially stupid, considering Lucas put everything he had into the film. The evidence of that is that he had to go to Fox for extra 10 Million after it went over schedule/budget.

Making of Return of the Jedi is a great read and lays out how Lucas went about cutting corners on the film. At one point during the filming of the Sarlacc fight the crew brought him an animatronic tentacle to use, but he had specified that a simple rubber tentacle would suffice, and so he refused to use the clearly superior prop to make a point. It seems petty and counterproductive now, and some of the effects could have used more than matte paintings, but it did keep costs down.

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ray_afraid said:

Why refuse to use something that has already been made? Isn’t it a bigger waste of funds to not use props that money has already gone into?

Well it wasn’t just a matter of cutting costs but cutting time too. I assume the animatronic would be a bit trickier to use (however better).

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NeverarGreat said:

imperialscum said:

DominicCobb said:

Lucas thought ESB should have been made worse for less money. He got his way the next time around.

I highly doubt he thought that. I see you are completely detached from reality like the guy in the other thread (http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1050968). Budget/time constraints are there for a reason - not to bankrupt. He most likely wanted to make as good film as possible within the given budget/time constraints. For that you need a director who can make great shots in minimum amount of time.

And your statement is especially stupid, considering Lucas put everything he had into the film. The evidence of that is that he had to go to Fox for extra 10 Million after it went over schedule/budget.

Making of Return of the Jedi is a great read and lays out how Lucas went about cutting corners on the film. At one point during the filming of the Sarlacc fight the crew brought him an animatronic tentacle to use, but he had specified that a simple rubber tentacle would suffice, and so he refused to use the clearly superior prop to make a point. It seems petty and counterproductive now, and some of the effects could have used more than matte paintings, but it did keep costs down.

Maximising quality of shots under the cost/time constraints is what director/producer should be best at.

I have not seen the “clearly superior prop” in action but the one used in the film looked good and real. I highly doubt the robotic prop would have looked better. Until recent developments in robotics, the dynamics of robot motion looked very unbiological and artificial, which is pretty much the most clear cue of fakeness in our perception.

Besides, the fact that they made both and chose one of them is the opposite of “cutting corners”.

真実

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TV’s Frink said:

SparkySywer said:

I’m pretty sure VFP was being sarcastic.

What???

Whoops!

Some guy named vote_for_palpatine said something, and people were taking him seriously when I thought he was sarcastic. Little did I know that this thread had 5 pages, not 1, and my comment wouldn’t be directly below the discussion, it would be multiple pages after it.

Death of the Author

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Did you know that post was from over seven years ago?

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I think the reason they replaced the “Bring my shuttle” line with “Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival” was because the length of the shot of Vader walking through Cloud City meant that there was a notably long pause between when he finished speaking and the cut to the next shot. They did a fine job filling it in with John Williams’ score in my humble opinion, but I can see why they wanted to replace the line with something that filled out the sound mix a bit better, albeit one that seems tonally inconsistent with Vader’s seething tone of voice in the duel sequence.

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Knightmessenger said:

Gaffer Tape said:

I’ve said before that, from a purely filmmaking standpoint, this addition is probably the worst in the entire Special Edition.  Yes, there are things that are dumber and more agonizing from a fan standpoint, but, aside from the addition of the Jabba scene, there is no other part of the SE that RUINS THE PACING as much as this.  The Falcon is rushing back to save Luke, the music is pumping, the TIEs are closing in… AND THE FILM JUST FUCKING STOPS SO WE CAN WATCH VADER ARRIVE ON HIS SHIP?!  Whose crack-addled brain came up with that one?!

Yeah, it’s one of the least talked about alterations but it’s really one of the worst changes. It makes you wonder how Lucas was ever successful at all because it demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge over pacing and basic filmmaking in general. The first time I actually watched Empire straight through was after getting the 2004 set and I seem to remember being confused as to why Vaders big ship looked identical to the second Death Star. The film might have well gone to a commercial break. “We interrupt the conclusion of Empire Strikes Back for this paid promotional segment by the Empire.” God I wish Nostalgia Critic would just tear into that.

The music editing is really horrible too, it just abruptly goes back to the music when Vader reveals he’s Luke’s father.

If you have the 1997 version, you can also compare how much blue tinted it was in 2004.

Another Empire edit that bothers me (which no one else points out either). Lando frees Chewbacca who starts choking Lando. Leia says “You think after what you did to Han we’re going to trust you?”

In the 2004 audio mix, Chewbacca’s growl comes in sooner completely drowing out “trust you” from Leia.

“You think after what you did to Han, we’re going to- garrragggaahhh”

Just another reason the 2004 is the worst ever.

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I just want to say, it brings join to my heart that this topic has 5 pages of discussion. Worst change ever.

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This is most least liked of all the changes, one that I really do totally dislike. This one just totally chopped up the music and flow AND REMOVED the single most viciously delivered line reading EVER by Vader! How can you remove his moth seething line ever? For a weak “bring my shuttle” which narrates something that NOBODY was ever confused about to begin with.

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Frogpaws said:

So again, what was the motivation? Was Lucas jealous Kershner got so much credit for ESB and he wanted to stick his own contribution into the climax?

Nah, whatever it was, I don’t think it was that. If he was so crazed about credits he would have taken a screenplay credit for ESB. But he instead removed his credit and gave it to just Leigh Brackett (as an honor and tribute, although her screenplay was basically not used at all) and and to as a special thanks for coming aboard at quick notice to help him polish it up a bit. Although it seems, for some reason these days, mayeb all the Lucas haters flooding the internet with seething hate, to be mostly forgotten, Lucas actually wrote the bulk of the basic screenplay for ESB and even good chunks of the key, beloved dialogue was from his own original drafts.

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“alert my stardestroyer to prepare for my arrival”—maybe it’s code for—“have an expendable lackey waiting for me to force choke when I arrive”