I love Hayden Christensen
I was wondering you’d think about this episode! I felt the way Hayden acted here was similar to how you had him be in the new canon cut.
AHSOKA Is Half Over And So Far It’s… - a 13 minute YouTube video from Jeremy Jahns (for Episodes 1-4).
I don’t usually like the delivery style, but he does mention some good points in this video; especially the inconstant use and appearances of “Force Ghosts” in Star Wars, the reliance of memberberries. That the animated versions of characters seem more lively and interesting than the live action series. Maps again. Some problems with it being a “Rebels season 5”. The villains being the better more engaging characters. And a bit more.
“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas
and sorry if I spoiled the OG Thrawn trilogy for anyone ,but it came out 32-30 years ago , if you haven’t read it by now , that’s on you . And what the heck is wrong with you if you haven’t ? ( meant that kinda tongue in cheek ,with all due respect )
The unabridged audiobooks of the trilogy are also superb, if you’re an audiobook person.
For sure ! They were excellent and Mark Thompson gave a stellar performance. His voicing of the main OT cast was spot on and that’s exactly how I heard Thrawn’s voice in my head when originally reading the books
I love Hayden Christensen
I was wondering you’d think about this episode! I felt the way Hayden acted here was similar to how you had him be in the new canon cut.
Yeah you know me, always been a Hayden truther, so seeing Hayden playing Anakin the way I always knew he could was sick. And it was great to see such a range he could play with here. The softness he has that even animated Anakin doesn’t, adds a lot of nuance to a performance where he is acting more outgoing and fierce. I feel like the character we get out of this bridging is only more enticing and interesting than he was before.
And he still gets to do the intense dark-sided work that was never in too much question! I think I only ever liked lightsabers as much as I did because Hayden was swinging them.
I’ve had a lot of issues with the show overall, but he was great
not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing
I love the subtle messaging in this episode. Filoni really shows respect to the fans by not spoon feeding everything to them - leaving it open to interpretation.
“Live or die”
I see this as a sort of call to defiance against the absurd , ala Albert Camus.
Live life to the fullest regardless of the tragedies, the apparent meaninglessness, the darkness and cyclical nature of life.
Live in defiance.
Choose life no matter what.
Live, or die…
Peace is a lie
There is only passion…
Everything is still agonizingly slow. It feels embarrassing to watch this. People are really going out of their way to like it because it has certain characters in it, but if it didn’t have those characters, everyone would see it for what it is.
But it does have those characters… so your argument isn’t really valid. The slower story is a welcome change. Not everything needs to be a rush to finish line.
The Star Wars Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX | Rogue One · Solo
What was first just a dream has become a frightening reality…
So far I love the show. The portrayal of Sabine is EXCELLENT!
Does anyone else get the sense that Ahsoka seems like one of the least interesting aspects of the show so far? Maybe it’s just because I feel like all of the other aspects shine so bright, but to be honest, I think Rosario Dawson’s portrayal seems a little dull compared to how we’ve seen Ahsoka in other series. Maybe that’s on purpose? This version of Ahsoka seems a bit more jaded after everything she’s been through. It seems like she has a lot of growing to do in terms of being a master and as a person. Maybe Sabine will bring back her more lively and youthful optimism? I hope so…
What do you guys think?
It’s the direction. For whatever reason, she’s being told to act like that.
Maybe…or maybe Rosario is doing her thing and Dave isn’t the kind of director to question her takes at this point. 🤷♂️. We don’t know for sure, but she is boring in her own show.
It’s certain because every character in the show is acting the same way. Everyone is rightfully singing the praises of Ray Stevenson but even he is clearly getting told not to show a lot of emotion.
Well, I mean it’s not “certain” because there is no quote or direct proof to the matter…merely fan conjecture. We do not know the behind the scenes of this show.
It’s just process of elimination. If someone is a skilled actor (ie. Rosario Dawson and Ray Stevenson) who knows how to show emotion, and they don’t do that, it’s because someone has told them that’s how their character is. The person who tells the actors what to do is the director.
Slow pace isn’t bad, but this is mostly just super dull in that decompressed mode IMO. Maybe in light of the recent developments in Ashoka as a character this will get better - but Rosario has been sleepwalking through her performance up to this point. The more vibes-based storytelling I feel like Filoni is going for here also doesn’t entirely land when the visual part of the vibe often looks cheap. And the structure is so weird! The first four episodes could have been two, and this most recent one felt like it could have been much shorter, while also feeling like two disparate episodes mashed together.
And we’re over halfway through. The premise of Other Galaxy is only now starting
It’s such a weird, kind of bad show. But I kinda like it lmao.
not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing
But it does have those characters… so your argument isn’t really valid. The slower story is a welcome change. Not everything needs to be a rush to finish line.
Put it another way - imagine this show didn’t have the Star Wars name on it or even just that you haven’t seen an episode of any of the animated shows. Imagine you didn’t know who prequel Anakin was or that Hayden Christensen coming back was some major event. Would you still like it? Why?
I don’t mean that the story is taking its time, I mean every single part of the story is filmed and edited in a way where it takes too long. Shot by shot, dialogue by dialogue. It’s not like it’s lingering on big vistas or striking imagery, it’s lingering on characters saying
“We need to do this.”
…
…
…
…
“Yeah.”
or the visual equivalent.
my friends and I counted an average of 6 seconds between lines of dialogue in the first two episodes, it’s dire
not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing
Put it another way - imagine this show didn’t have the Star Wars name on it or even just that you haven’t seen an episode of any of the animated shows. Imagine you didn’t know who prequel Anakin was or that Hayden Christensen coming back was some major event. Would you still like it? Why?
Fair point. I think the biggest problem for some people more or less… is that the show cannot stand on it’s own. There is too much prior knowledge needed and key events and motivations are not explained within the show itself. But, it is a sequel after all!
The Star Wars Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX | Rogue One · Solo
What was first just a dream has become a frightening reality…
Another bright spot for me: I actually really like how this episode manages to - not justify - but kind of explain why Ahsoka has been so weird and counter to herself. That performance has still been bad and not very fun to watch, but there’s intentionality there that I can respect far more than anything in OWK or Mando.
So like what I got out of this episode was that Ahsoka before this was trying to train a Jedi the way she was most familiar with: as a wartime Jedi / soldier. (She couldn’t parse that out until now I guess).
And she had been treading so carefully (and half heartedly) on it with Sabine because that wasn’t something she believed in. But after everything she’s started to believe that maybe the alternative to that (who her and her Master were) can only lead to more Darth Vader.
Because they were those Jedi maverick types who didn’t quite fit into the dogma, and they were proud of that until it all went bad. Ahsoka chose to leave where Anakin clung on, and Ahsoka calls him on his hypocrisy on the way out. “I know you do, Anakin.” in response to his admission of wanting to leave sometimes is basically Ahsoka reading Anakin out loud. He doesn’t belong there any more than she does.
So when he falls to the dark side, it’s easy for her to extrapolate that it’s who they were in that institution was what was wrong. She blames herself for leaving that behind, for abandoning the commitment, and re-finds her “faith” in Jedi teachings, almost in the way Hell in Abrahamic religions motivates piety.
This episode was about remembering Anakin and The Clone War that brought her up with more clarity. What it was to her to be a Jedi before the war and that Anakin as he was, wasn’t just part of a Vader equation. Basically Ahsoka’s been misreading that history this whole time. Who the Jedi became in the Clone Wars was not all the Jedi can be.
I think we all expected her to progress from TCW as a cool, light-side aligned wanderer but I think this - her baggage about the Jedi Order - is more complex and pretty fun / interesting to untangle.
not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing
I’d like to see The Prequel Trilogy receive Special Edition versions.
They’ve all got at least one or two decent deleted scenes that could be reinstated and some early-era CGI that could be improved upon.
This episode of Ahsoka is the first time we’ve seen ‘actual’ physical Clone Troopers, rather than the animated CGI ones. Wow do they look better. It was a major disappointment to me that AOTC and ROTS felt like watching an animated movies for large swathes, it didnt look good, it didnt look real, and it was a world away from the grounded, tangible, touchable aesthetic of the Original Trilogy.
So thanks to Ahsoka I’m now imagining Prequel Special Editions, where some of the CGI toon troopers are replaced with good old fashioned blokes in suits! That i’d like to see…
Thrawn in Rebels has all the resources of the Empire and he and his underlings still manage to lose regularly to a far weaker rebel group. So it’s not really the same character to me.
When Thrawn loses in Rebels he always plays the ‘we lost the battle but not the war’ card. It’s the same deal in Heir to the Empire. If I remember correctly he loses his first big attack on the shipyards. He scores some big victories in the following 2 books but that’s the same case as in Rebels - at Atollon he destroys most of their fleet and destroys the entire strike force attacking his Tie Defender factory.
“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”
Watched a Youtube clip of Hayden’s flashback. Was kind of cool, but it gave me a “too little, too late” type feeling. Like, most of the general Star Wars fandom/audience (read: not the super geeky fraction of the audience) have no knowledge of Anakin and Ahsoka.
Why didn’t they do the Clone Wars era with Hayden and Ewan in the Obi-Wan Kenobi show? It’s like; it’s a brilliant f*in idea, but Disney always seem to do the right thing at the wrong time. The audience was THERE for The Obi-Wan Kenobi show. But it was the third major SW flop in under 5 years and now most people are gone.
I’m not going to waste my time watching this show yet, since it seems to be dull as a turd and relies on your prior knowledge (never watched anything of the animation stuff), but I can’t help but shake this feeling that using Hayden/Anakin and Luke now; after having failed to use them when it really mattered (during and after The Sequel Trilogy hatred), it all just feels so… cheap. Irrelevant. Sidestory content. Late.
Instead of creating a Luke Skywalker or Anakin “Clone Wars” show/movie, something that the people would really like and would bother giving a chance to restore their love for the property, they always seem to “miss the mark” with their new shows and films.
They should stop/pause the process of making irrelevant live-action content, and just make something that will bring the fanbase back into the now-dying universe of Star Wars! Make a Luke Skywalker film. Make a live-action Clone Wars film. Do SOMETHING that will actually be relevant to the general audience instead of the minority of it?
The audience need an apology and a reason to come back to the universe. This stuff really isn’t the answer.
Nobody and my aunt gives a toss about Ahsoka, the animated shows, the books and all that side-story content when the “main story” is what hooked us, and also what ultimately let us down.
Talk to anyone about Star Wars, and they will all talk about how The Sequel Trilogy failed Luke, Han and Leia, how the Obi-Wan kenobi show was shit and how The Mandalorian was fun 3 years ago…
Disney’s main struggle as of now is not the writing process or the direction. It is actually the ability to READ THE ROOM. It seems like they now have the pen at paper at the correct spot - but their timing is too late, and their execution still a tad too dull.
WHAT HAVE I DONE?
The Ancient Lore
Kenobi: A Star Wars Story
Harry Potter Revisited
Game of Thrones Film Edits
Titanic Restructured
… and more.
If Disney really wanted to revive Star Wars, they should focus on popular side characters and stories (that are fresh and don’t require much prior knowledge):
Make MOVIES of (not shows)
Ya get the point LOL
As for the animated side of the house, and I have been saying this for YEARS!
The Star Wars Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX | Rogue One · Solo
What was first just a dream has become a frightening reality…
I just don’t trust the people making this stuff with those characters. I thought I might like Ahsoka or (recent) Mandalorian more because they’re not movie characters so there’s less to “ruin” but I still think they did them dirty. So I have even less faith that they’ll do something good with Thrawn, Mara Jade, Revan, Plagueis, or whoever. I don’t get it when fans hate the existing stuff coming out and then turn around and say, “Give us KOTOR! Give us Mara Jade!” etc. as though just having those characters technically in something makes it good.
Quality is quality. It’s been said a lot but Andor went with a completely original story with almost all new characters, and receives almost universal praise. Would I trust the people making that show with making a clone wars show? Yes. Would I trust them to make a cool show with Kyle Katarn in it? Yes. Another completely original concept? Yes.
But if you hand the same stuff over to the people that made and approved Book of Boba Fett, Obi Wan show, Mandalorian season 3, then no. Dave Filoni, no.
The Shadow Warrior converted me. I loved it.
I shall not spoil it, but say it “brought warm feelings to my heart.” (Yoda, AOTC)
“There is a tremor in the Force.”
“Give yourself to the dark side.” -Lord Vader
I just don’t trust the people making this stuff with those characters. I thought I might like Ahsoka or (recent) Mandalorian more because they’re not movie characters so there’s less to “ruin” but I still think they did them dirty. So I have even less faith that they’ll do something good with Thrawn, Mara Jade, Revan, Plagueis, or whoever. I don’t get it when fans hate the existing stuff coming out and then turn around and say, “Give us KOTOR! Give us Mara Jade!” etc. as though just having those characters technically in something makes it good.
Quality is quality. It’s been said a lot but Andor went with a completely original story with almost all new characters, and receives almost universal praise. Would I trust the people making that show with making a clone wars show? Yes. Would I trust them to make a cool show with Kyle Katarn in it? Yes. Another completely original concept? Yes.
But if you hand the same stuff over to the people that made and approved Book of Boba Fett, Obi Wan show, Mandalorian season 3, then no. Dave Filoni, no.
I feel very much the same. I’d have to have seen the makers of Andor do some of the previous live action projects. Or other creatives as talented with different visions and takes on EU stories or legacy characters. Even in animation or short one-off live action specials.
77 episodes of Rebels
133 episodes of The Clone Wars
27 episodes of 2003 Clone Wars
7 episodes of Tales of the Jedi
6 episodes of Kenobi
8 episodes of Ahsoka.
258 episodes in total: mainly in an attempt to somehow try and fix, improve, save, repair, expand upon, mitigate, or flesh out the 3 awful Prequel Trilogy films from some 20/25 years ago.
If after nearly 258 episodes, the most ‘exciting’ and ‘best thing ever’ fans are talking about online is seeing Anakin appearing again in very brief, foggy, dream-like rehashed fight scenes, then the bar has become set very low for this particular era of Star Wars.
Even in this series set in the New Republic era, part of the Mandoverse series that appears to be attempting to fix, improve or expand the Sequel Trilogy much in the way the listed shows above did for the PT: the most crafted and thought-out set-piece so far is a needless call-back about the Prequel era once again. That is such a pity, even though it was done well.
Without this particular memberberry, dripping in fan service, I have to ask myself just how good has this series been so far? Not very.
5 episodes in and it is mundane, shallow, predictable. Albeit with some okay, fun parts occurring in places. Much like Mandalorian seasons 2 & 3, Kenobi, and BOBF, it is overall disappointing and underwhelming. Lacking in substance, care, quality. It is also safe, formulaic, uninspiring, and risk averse. The clunky dialogue, and slow stoic acting prevents any emotion and tension. And worse of all, the story has nothing to say. Even at best, it contradicts itself: the episode 5 memberberry message of ‘live in the present - or die trapped with the weight of the past’, is ironic given Filoni’s Star Wars projects often use fan service and call-backs to the past events and characters to illicit an emotional reaction from the viewer. Projects that are still unable to stand on their own, that still require those “fan-wish” call-backs even now, nearly 20/25 years after the Prequels.
Ahsoka is now reborn as #AhsokaTheWhite, baptised and cleansed of the guilt, controls and burden she placed upon herself. Cool, but as we haven’t really seen that other than Ahsoka acting slow and stoic in the previous four episodes, it doesn’t have much of an emotional impact or weight. And we are now at the same character point we were at the end of the Rebels epilogue: #AhsokaTheWhite. 3 more episodes to go.
I have to say the actress playing young Ahsoka was great, and Hayden was also good, very good in the WBW scenes. The cinematography and visuals for the call-back battle scenes were very nicely done. Gif/meme-tastic!
Sabine, the two villains, and young Ahsoka are most engaging of all the characters in the series so far, which is a problem. Maybe now we will see Ahsoka come to the fore? I like Rosario Dawson as an actress, she is a good actress, great in Daredevil. But not in this, so far. I hope that changes in the 3 last episodes.
They appear to have a lot to do in those 3 remaining episodes.
“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas
What is ironic is how The Rise of Skywalker was billed as “The End of Skywalker Saga” and ever since it’s the Skywalkers who get all the attention with Luke’s return in Mando S2 and BOBF and Anakin’s return in Kenobi and now Ahsoka.
The reality is the center of AGFFA is the Skywalker Family. Proof of that is no IP has been able to stand without Anakin/ Vader or a Skywalker, Andor is the exception but it leads to Rogue One which is no doubt shrouded in Vader’s epic carnage at the climax.
“There is a tremor in the Force.”
“Give yourself to the dark side.” -Lord Vader
What is ironic is how The Rise of Skywalker was billed as “The End of Skywalker Saga” and ever since it’s the Skywalkers who get all the attention with Luke’s return in Mando S2 and BOBF and Anakin’s return in Kenobi and now Ahsoka.
The reality is the center of AGFFA is the Skywalker Family. Proof of that is no IP has been able to stand without Anakin/ Vader or a Skywalker.
I think this is why I enjoy Visions series, just fun Star Wars stories about anything and everywhere in the GFFA, that don’t really feature known or legacy characters. If we didn’t like one episode, there is always another. I wish there were more, and look forward to the 3rd season.
It could be why some of us are looking forward to Acolyte, and even Skeleton Crew? That it isn’t made or has input by Filoni or have that “Volume look”, and that is will be crafted by different talents, a different approach and look as well, I hope. Acolyte should definitely be free of the fan service or Skywalkers, and Mangold’s film too.
“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas
What is ironic is how The Rise of Skywalker was billed as “The End of Skywalker Saga” and ever since it’s the Skywalkers who get all the attention with Luke’s return in Mando S2 and BOBF and Anakin’s return in Kenobi and now Ahsoka.
The reality is the center of AGFFA is the Skywalker Family. Proof of that is no IP has been able to stand without Anakin/ Vader or a Skywalker.
I think this is why I enjoy Visions series, just fun Star Wars stories about anything and everywhere in the GFFA, that don’t really feature known or legacy characters. If we didn’t like one episode, there is always another. I wish there were more, and look forward to the 3rd season.
It could be why some of us are looking forward to Acolyte, and even Skeleton Crew? That it isn’t made or has input by Filoni or have that “Volume look”, and that is will be crafted by different talents, a different approach and look as well, I hope. Acolyte should definitely be free of the fan service or Skywalkers, and Mangold’s film too.
The Acolyte is on my watch list solely because I have wanted a treatment or story from the dark side or “larger view of the Force.”
I love Visions, and I agree they are refreshing in that they do not depend on any Major Legends characters or Legacy ones; in a way they go back to he fresh blank slate ANH gave us, when all was new and big reveals and secret bloodlines weren’t the focus.
I am crossing my kyber crystals that at some point Visions and The Acolyte will be the norm. New characters and points of view. That said I would be a liar if I said I have not enjoyed Hayden’s return as Anakin & Vader. He was the Tragic Hero I most connected with in the prequels, his duality and learning to accept it is something I aspire to; to come to terms with the Ashla and Bogan in myself.
“There is a tremor in the Force.”
“Give yourself to the dark side.” -Lord Vader
What is ironic is how The Rise of Skywalker was billed as “The End of Skywalker Saga” and ever since it’s the Skywalkers who get all the attention with Luke’s return in Mando S2 and BOBF and Anakin’s return in Kenobi and now Ahsoka.
The reality is the center of AGFFA is the Skywalker Family. Proof of that is no IP has been able to stand without Anakin/ Vader or a Skywalker.
I think this is why I enjoy Visions series, just fun Star Wars stories about anything and everywhere in the GFFA, that don’t really feature known or legacy characters. If we didn’t like one episode, there is always another. I wish there were more, and look forward to the 3rd season.
It could be why some of us are looking forward to Acolyte, and even Skeleton Crew? That it isn’t made or has input by Filoni or have that “Volume look”, and that is will be crafted by different talents, a different approach and look as well, I hope. Acolyte should definitely be free of the fan service or Skywalkers, and Mangold’s film too.
The Acolyte is on my watch list solely because I have wanted a treatment or story from the dark side or “larger view of the Force.”
I love Visions, and I agree they are refreshing in that they do not depend on any Major Legends characters or Legacy ones; in a way they go back to he fresh blank slate ANH gave us, when all was new and big reveals and secret bloodlines weren’t the focus.
I am crossing my kyber crystals that at some point Visions and The Acolyte will be the norm. New characters and points of view. That said I would be a liar if I said I have not enjoyed Hayden’s return as Anakin & Vader. He was the Tragic Hero I most connected with in the prequels, his duality and learning to accept it is something I aspire to; to come to terms with the Ashla and Bogan in myself.
It’s unclear what exactly all the dark Anakin stuff in Ahsoka means (if there is any meaning) but that’s not how the dark side works and you shouldn’t try to integrate it into yourself in real life.
What is ironic is how The Rise of Skywalker was billed as “The End of Skywalker Saga” and ever since it’s the Skywalkers who get all the attention with Luke’s return in Mando S2 and BOBF and Anakin’s return in Kenobi and now Ahsoka.
The reality is the center of AGFFA is the Skywalker Family. Proof of that is no IP has been able to stand without Anakin/ Vader or a Skywalker.
I think this is why I enjoy Visions series, just fun Star Wars stories about anything and everywhere in the GFFA, that don’t really feature known or legacy characters. If we didn’t like one episode, there is always another. I wish there were more, and look forward to the 3rd season.
It could be why some of us are looking forward to Acolyte, and even Skeleton Crew? That it isn’t made or has input by Filoni or have that “Volume look”, and that is will be crafted by different talents, a different approach and look as well, I hope. Acolyte should definitely be free of the fan service or Skywalkers, and Mangold’s film too.
The Acolyte is on my watch list solely because I have wanted a treatment or story from the dark side or “larger view of the Force.”
I love Visions, and I agree they are refreshing in that they do not depend on any Major Legends characters or Legacy ones; in a way they go back to he fresh blank slate ANH gave us, when all was new and big reveals and secret bloodlines weren’t the focus.
I am crossing my kyber crystals that at some point Visions and The Acolyte will be the norm. New characters and points of view. That said I would be a liar if I said I have not enjoyed Hayden’s return as Anakin & Vader. He was the Tragic Hero I most connected with in the prequels, his duality and learning to accept it is something I aspire to; to come to terms with the Ashla and Bogan in myself.
Ah. I did not iike Anakin as the way he was portrayed in the Prequel films themselves, and he certainly was no “Tragic Hero” in them. Later, in the Prequel era itself, with all the animated shows, book and comics since, he became more of that tragic figure.
But I am happy too that Hayden got to return and show some good acting, to play the character as a more rounded or nuanced person than we originally got in his 2 PT films (I do not blame the actor, other better actors with long careers suffered in the PT also came across as stiff, flat or stifled).
I hope the Acolyte will be a hit, and be something a little different too.
“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas