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Abrams is Destroying Star Trek like Lucas has Destroyed Star Wars — Page 7

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Remastered TOS is a very different situation, I am sure you realize that, but for some reason, people are bent on comparing that with the SW SE and CG additions to other films. The fact of the matter is, TOS in its original form is on DVD in a pretty decent form. You can still buy those DVDs, nobody is telling you you cannot. Most importantly, TOS Remastered was done out of neccessity, not out of desire to go back and redo things for kicks and giggles. The original effects, having been made with the intention of being show on a small TV screen, were not fit for HD resolutions. The replacement CG effects, in every episode I have seen, were very close to the original effects only CG. They didn't change the design of the Enterprise or try to make it look more modern or better match the ships from TNG, DS9, VOY, or the films. Trek Remastered was a neccessary exercise, and the people doing it did the best job possible in keeping them close to their original incarnation. 

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I have to disagree that Remastered was necessary.  Just because it wouldn't have looked good on an HDTV doesn't mean it had to be updated.  King Kong's effects, even though they were made for film, wouldn't look too good on an HDTV, but they don't need to be changed either.  I don't believe that Star Trek Remastered needed to be done or even should have been done.

That said, I do agree that, from what I've seen, most of what they've done has been very good and respectful to the original series, especially in comparison to things like the SE.  And it proves to me that the new movie could have kept the exact design of the old Enterprise without it looking dumb.

Of course, that said, I also understand to an extent why they would redesign the ship.  It's the same reason why TMP redesigned the Enterprise.  They were just able to mask it with a, "Oh, she's old, so she's undergoing a refit."  I do have to wonder if the new movie will be able to adequately explain away the design changes.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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After reading other blogs about this New Star Trek film, I am sick of people attacking the look and retro feel of TOS. They say things like TOS look and technology is too old looking.
TOS technology is right in line with Trek-Canon, Both TOS and TNG. Zefram Cochrane's ship the Phoenix in Star Trek: First Contact used analog technology not Digital technology of today's shit. The Phoenix is a very Steampunk ship.
also The world of Star Trek is set after World War III in which mankind had to rebuild things and basically start over (Hey JJ, that means no ipods, no imacs, no iphones, no BMX or BMW and more likely No Digital technology). Zefram Cochrane was the leader of the new technology movement after World War III and the new technology was more like based on the analog technology of the Phoenix then a damn ipod or iphone. 

also for the people who think the TOS look is dated.... well, the new i-prise is even more dated.

Classic Star Trek dated.....my ass!

The classic bridge is way more futurist then JJ's i-store bridge.

 

Also the classic uniform were more sexy then JJ's redesign:

the classic women uniform's soft and velvet Valour is sexier than Nylon.

the classic women uniform's skirt were shorter then JJ's redesign.

the classic women uniform's skirt also had an opening and the JJ's redesign does not.

the classic women uniform had a low cut top, JJ's redesign had a high neck.

also pantyhose with high leather boots is sexier then just plain bare legs with rubber boots.

 

jolene blalock in the classic women uniform:

 

 

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Gaffer Tape said:

I have to disagree that Remastered was necessary.  Just because it wouldn't have looked good on an HDTV doesn't mean it had to be updated.  King Kong's effects, even though they were made for film, wouldn't look too good on an HDTV, but they don't need to be changed either.  I don't believe that Star Trek Remastered needed to be done or even should have been done.

You may be right, but I think the original film masters didn't have the effects, as the effects were made for the prints being aired on TV, or something like that. I really have not idea what I am talking about to be honest, it has been a long time since I read about it, but the short of it was something along the lines of everything looking fantastic in HD, because it was filmed in a higher resolution than HD, but the effects having been for tiny TVs would have looked really rough in comparison to the rest of the picture. Maybe Zombie or Chainsawash or someone could step in and straighten me out if they know. I respect them and the changes they made, because it was done in giving a classic series the highest quality modern viewing experience possible, and not that they were making changes for the sake of making changes.

SW SE on the otherhand went through great lengths to make changes for the sake of making changes, to the point of being ridiculous and redundant. We have the Jabba scene repeating information we already got from the Greedo scene, and then we have Han stepping on Jabba's tail as a way of forcing an out of place scene, that simply doesn't work, fit into the film. Had SW SE simple been a remastering of the films, masking some of the old effects (like orange blob under speeder), modernizing some effects (re-retroscoping sabers and lazer blasts), and adding in some lost scenes like meeting Biggs in the hanger before takeoff, then it would not bother me anywhere near half as much as it does (though it would still infuriate me if we didn't have the originals on DVD, something ST fans do have in reagrds to TOS).

And Hunter, that was a good post. I agree with you. Just as we can go through history and look at vehical designs and see how they changes over the ages and for what reasons they changed, style, practicality, rising gas prices, shortage of material due to war, or needing to use cheaper material due to economic decline. It makes since for Starships to go through these phases as well. In First Contact we see the Pheonix has a design very similar to TOS ships. the Pheonix represented bringing mankind out of the ashes of its old civilization, which had at this point all but been destroyed by constant warring, and bring it into a new age of science, technology, and discovery. Basically we are looking at a technological boom coming out of a post-apoctaliptic Earth. I think that simple, practical, submarinesque design of the original is a good representation of this. And as the series goes on, we see the designs changing styles, from the TOS design, to what we see in the STMP refit, to the Enterprise A to the Excelsior style Enterpise B, eventually getting to the more bulky designs of the Entrprise C and D as seen in TNG, to the more sleek and stylish Voyager and Enterprise E. I think ST Enterprise kind of messed this up a bit, since the NX-10 (that what it was called right?) is much closer to the style of the Voyager and the Enterprise E, in my opinion, and yet it is suppose to fit between the Pheonix and the original Enterprise.

I do, however, like how Enterprise used the exact old designs for everything, instead of trying to modernize them in any way. That episode was a lot of fun to watch.

 

 

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Yes In a Mirror Darkly was the best Star Trek in Years and Fucking rocked.  The last time is saw something so awesome was scotty on the enterprise D holodeck original 1701 bridge.

EdenFX did those Incredible updates on the old series effects style in cgi on In a mirror darkly.They should have done the effects on the remaster instead of cbs digital.  I think they also did the effects on Nemesis though that were less than stellar.

These are the voyages was a joke.  Second worse Trek i have seen in Modern times since Nemesis.  Yeah the old series had bad episodes during the third Season but at least those are campy fun.  You Know Spock's Brain and Turnabout Intruder.

Despite what Trekkies say Enterprise was True to the spirit of the original series and i was sad when it was cancelled.   Gene Jr who is known ad "rod"  embraced the show. 

I cannot say the same thing about the new movie, it neither looks or feels to be at heart Roddenberry Star Trek.  In Fact it is Trek remade in JJ's own image.  It will be slick and Fast faced like most of his works but largely empty of any substance.  This is the guy who likes Jerking people around with Plot twists and insane drama on his shows.  Yet Lost and Alias at the end of watching them was mostly a wtf?  Like a mind fuck basically, same with Cloverfield.  Gets you to go hmm and maybe think for a bit but there is no emotional attachment to any characters and his series are loose on themes except for quick cuts and lots of action.  He be perfect for a Jason Borne movie just not Star Trek.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

Yes In a Mirror Darkly was the best Star Trek in Years and Fucking rocked.  The last time is saw something so awesome was scotty on the enterprise D holodeck original 1701 bridge.

EdenFX did those Incredible updates on the old series effects style in cgi on In a mirror darkly.They should have done the effects on the remaster instead of cbs digital.  I think they also did the effects on Nemesis though that were less than stellar.

These are the voyages was a joke.  Second worse Trek i have seen in Modern times since Nemesis.  Yeah the old series had bad episodes during the third Season but at least those are campy fun.  You Know Spock's Brain and Turnabout Intruder.

Despite what Trekkies say Enterprise was True to the spirit of the original series and i was sad when it was cancelled.   Gene Jr who is known ad "rod"  embraced the show. 

I cannot say the same thing about the new movie, it neither looks or feels to be at heart Roddenberry Star Trek.  In Fact it is Trek remade in JJ's own image.  It will be slick and Fast faced like most of his works but largely empty of any substance.  This is the guy who likes Jerking people around with Plot twists and insane drama on his shows.  Yet Lost and Alias at the end of watching them was mostly a wtf?  Like a mind fuck basically, same with Cloverfield.  Gets you to go hmm and maybe think for a bit but there is no emotional attachment to any characters and his series are loose on themes except for quick cuts and lots of action.  He be perfect for a Jason Borne movie just not Star Trek.

Even a Jason Borne movie is too smart for JJ Abrams.

Digital Domain did the effects in Nemesis, not EdenFX.

I like Star Trek Remastered, the only thing wrong with them is that CBS did not given the time or money into them.

Mike Okuda and his crew did a great job even with CBS' low funds and rushing the job actions.

Damn CBS!

 

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So now, Majel Barrett-Roddenberry is Playing Computer Voice In New Star Trek Movie.

http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/10/majel-barrett-roddenberry-to-play-computer-voice-in-new-star-trek-movie/

 

Remember this movie was first going to be released Dec 25 2008. If Majel Barrett-Roddenberry was going to be in then we would have heard about it before Dec 10 2008. This movie was done and in the can, months ago. Now we are hearing about changes.

I have a feeling that fan pressure is getting to CBS Paramount and Abrams.

What is next.....

more TOS cast announcement?

reshoots?

new effects?

a new enterprise which look more like TOS' enterprise?

Shatner?

 

Good work Trek-fans and non-fans who hate this movie, but just because Majel Barrett-Roddenberry in NOW a part of this film does not mean We should stop fighting or bow down to Abrams' Bad Star Trek.

 

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Dude, how do you know if it's bad? What's bad to you, might be great to someone else.

Like Dayv said a few pages pack, there's a lot of bitching and moaning...and no one's even seen the bloody thing yet!!

 

Not being the greatest fan of Star Trek, I'm actually looking forwrd to seeing this flick.

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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C3PX said:

Hunter, that was a good post. I agree with you. Just as we can go through history and look at vehical designs and see how they changes over the ages and for what reasons they changed, style, practicality, rising gas prices, shortage of material due to war, or needing to use cheaper material due to economic decline. It makes since for Starships to go through these phases as well. In First Contact we see the Pheonix has a design very similar to TOS ships. the Pheonix represented bringing mankind out of the ashes of its old civilization, which had at this point all but been destroyed by constant warring, and bring it into a new age of science, technology, and discovery. Basically we are looking at a technological boom coming out of a post-apoctaliptic Earth. I think that simple, practical, submarinesque design of the original is a good representation of this. And as the series goes on, we see the designs changing styles, from the TOS design, to what we see in the STMP refit, to the Enterprise A to the Excelsior style Enterpise B, eventually getting to the more bulky designs of the Entrprise C and D as seen in TNG, to the more sleek and stylish Voyager and Enterprise E. I think ST Enterprise kind of messed this up a bit, since the NX-10 (that what it was called right?) is much closer to the style of the Voyager and the Enterprise E, in my opinion, and yet it is suppose to fit between the Pheonix and the original Enterprise.

I do, however, like how Enterprise used the exact old designs for everything, instead of trying to modernize them in any way. That episode was a lot of fun to watch.

 

Thank you.

also I too think ST: ENT kind of messed this up a bit, but just a little. The thing is I think the insides of the NX-01 was more the mess up then the outside. The outside of the NX-01 was basically a disk with warp nacelles which more basic then the NCC-1701. The adding of things like the Warp core output transfer junctions, the warp field governor and Thrusters  were little changes to make NX-01's starship systems to make more in-line with the basic trek-tech that TMP and other post-TOS had. These little changes are key for a warp drive starship to work in post-TOS trek-tech. These are things that TOS' NCC-1701 needs added to it to fit basic trek-tech canon of today. I wish the new movie's Enterprise was the classic NCC-1701 with just a Warp core output transfer junctions, a warp field governor and Thrusters and with lite Aztec hull designs added to the ship then the Ugly non-canon design of Abrams' i-prise. I like the outer design of the NX-01 and the only thing I hate about it is the dumb TNG-blue lights on the Deflector dish and warp nacelles. The Pheonix and TOS' NCC-1701 did not had blue lights on the Deflector dish or warp nacelles, So, why would NX-01 have blue lights on the Deflector dish or warp nacelles? The problem I have with the insides of the NX-01 are the same things that are wrote on this site:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/22nd-cent-tech.htm

Things like the NX-01 having a transporter or Phaser-like weapons, but all of that is just nitpicking and none of the things on ST: ENT really messed up star trek canon (unlike Abrams' star trek). I just think it would have been better if the NX-01 was more basic like having rocket thrusters for impluse, no transporter, atomic weapons which is more true trek canon (see: TOS EP- Balance of Terror), more manual things and more of a Steampunk-like feel to the ship.

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Hunter6 said:
HotRod said:

Dude, how do you know if it's bad? What's bad to you, might be great to someone else.

Like Dayv said a few pages pack, there's a lot of bitching and moaning...and no one's even seen the bloody thing yet!!

Not being the greatest fan of Star Trek, I'm actually looking forwrd to seeing this flick.

 

O.K....
Here is an I.Q. test for you, HotRod

What about is Movie is making you looking forward to it?

P.s. HotRod, please no dumb answers like I am looking forward because "it is star trek" or "the ships go boom" or "the women are hot".

 

Come on, things like that are not very fair. As Hotrod said, he is not a big Star Trek fan, and he thinks the new movie looks cool, fair enough. No sense in treating him like he is stupid.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

Come on, things like that are not very fair. As Hotrod said, he is not a big Star Trek fan, and he thinks the new movie looks cool, fair enough. No sense in treating him like he is stupid.

 

Yeah, you are right.

 

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Hang on a sec

 

Look mate, just cos you got a beef with the way JJ is treating Star Trek, doesn't mean that it wont be an enjoyable movie for the average Joe, which if I'm not mistaken, is who it's aimed for.

I don't think it would matter to you who makes a new Trek film, all you fanboys (and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way) are going to bitch and moan about something or other, it's just the way it is. Just look at the way the PT got criticised. No one is ever going to make the movie you want to see. It'll never be right for you.

 

But for me, to answer your question the best way I can without being 'dumb' is simple.

I just want to see a great big sci-fi epic, that'll keep me interested in the story, hopefully make me laugh, and most importantly, just be a bloody enjoyable film. What more do you want from a movie.

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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Not really.

 

The biggest problem with Lucas is his refusal to release a high quality unaltered version of the original trilogy. The prequels all sucked ass, but who cares?

Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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Stinky-Dinkins said:

The biggest problem with Lucas is his refusal to release a high quality unaltered version of the original trilogy. The prequels all sucked ass, but who cares?

Agreed. The biggest problem with Lucas is his treatment of important works of art.

Who cares if something new sucks so long as we have the older, good stuff?

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Star Trek never captivated me the way that Star Wars did, so I don't really care too much, as I won't be wasting my money to see in the theatre, to rent it, or buy it. 

 

 

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Good to know.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Oh...Have I broke the Internet?....I think I may have screwed things up for the IE people here...Cos I can't read my own posts at home...ooops!!

 

Forget it...Think I fixed it!!

 

Anyhow...

 

Ok, so I'm not as passionate about Star Trek as I am about Star Wars, so that's why I probably don't give two hoots if they screw up the continuity or whatever.

But if that's what your'e all worried about, all you need to do is youtube Star Trek mistakes http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=d1chtJQFQNs, and you'll see they've been screwing that up for years!

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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Bob Orci Explains How The New Star Trek Movie Fits With Trek Canon (and Real Science)

http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/bob-orci-explains-how-the-new-star-trek-movie-fits-with-trek-canon-and-real-science/

Here is new trek writer Bob Orci trying to talk quantum mechanics and fails.

I would just read the Comments.
Comments 33, 64, 34 are some good ones, but Comment 86 hits nails on the head:
"the quantum mechanics being discussed here is closer to Deepak Chopra than Richard Feynmann"

Note that the title is "Bob Orci Explains How The New Star Trek Movie Fits With Trek Canon and Real Science" but this is not real Science nor quantum mechanics nor even trek Science, it is JJ mechanics.

Welcome to the new STAR TREK-B.

I leave you with Comment 94:
"So…  we’re gonna have two seperate Trek time lines now. Everything from TOS-NEM, and now the timeline from the new movie, and yet they will both co-exist as a result of quantum theory…..
One word sums that up: LAME."

 

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HotRod said:

Hang on a sec

 

Look mate, just cos you got a beef with the way JJ is treating Star Trek, doesn't mean that it wont be an enjoyable movie for the average Joe, which if I'm not mistaken, is who it's aimed for.

I don't think it would matter to you who makes a new Trek film, all you fanboys (and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way) are going to bitch and moan about something or other, it's just the way it is. Just look at the way the PT got criticised. No one is ever going to make the movie you want to see. It'll never be right for you.

 

But for me, to answer your question the best way I can without being 'dumb' is simple.

I just want to see a great big sci-fi epic, that'll keep me interested in the story, hopefully make me laugh, and most importantly, just be a bloody enjoyable film. What more do you want from a movie.

I want the lights on the spaceship to be blue like they should be!!! How can they seriously expect us to believe that a starship can reach warp speed without blue lights?!!! It's ridiculous!!!  I hate JJ!!!!

 

P.S. Note sarcasm.

P.P.S. I am a star wars fan and I hate the prequels and SE, so I can understand where you guys are coming from... but seriously.. chill out.

 

War does not make one great.

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HotRod said:

I dunno...Seems a good way to start afresh, and keep all the Trekkies happy about not messing with what's already been told!!

Yes, if this was not Star Trek and I think even non-Fans like the Smart factor in Star Trek. Now, a person does not really have to think deep to see the errors in what Bob Orci is talking about. Trek-fan like most sci-fi fans are smarter then most people and in time I think they will rip Bob Orci's bad alternate timeline universe ideas apart.
one thing that pops out is:

You have two universes-
1.) The Trek A Universe which is the Universe of all past Trek (TOS, TNG,DS9, VOY, ENT and the past 10 movies).

2.) The Trek B Universe which is the JJ Abrams Star Trek Universe.

Now, Nero is not really travels back in time in the Trek A Universe time-line. Nero is leaves the Trek A Universe and goes to the Trek B Universe. Trek B Universe is an alternate timeline which was made by own Nero actions. If Elder Spock leaves Trek A Universe to stop Nero actions in Trek B Universe then Elder Spock is damaging the time-line of Trek B Universe which was made by Nero actions. This is some thing that a character like the Elder Spock would think of. Also a character like the Elder Spock would know about the Many Worlds theory. The Many Worlds theory is the theory that anything thing we do, there are alternate action Universes and there uncountable alternate action Universes. Trek B Universe would just be one other alternate action Universes. The Elder Spock going to Trek B Universe and stopping Nero would be like going to the Mirror Universe and changing the history. A character like The Elder Spock would know that traveling to Trek B Universe is a bad idea, specially seeing like Bob Orci said that his own Trek A Universe continues normally.