Abrams is Destroying Star Trek like Lucas has Destroyed Star Wars — Page 2

C3PX said:

twister111 said:

I've only seen a few Trek episodes. Even I know it's a big frakkup to have Spock go all Midevil on Kirk. Hell, I remember an episode that implied that Spock loved Kirk as much as 1960's Trek could...

...Also, I know in that episode Spock hits Kirk but, it's only once... Not like in the Trek trailer where he's choking Kirk.... That and, Spocks inhibitions are gone from some virus in that episode. . . So, I guess that Spock gets brainwashed or, something in the Trek film...

 

It doesn't have anything to do with brainwashing, the new movie takes place before TOS, I think what they are going for in the new movie is a twist where Kirk and Spock didn't get along when they first met. I am guessing after they go through the hardships that are the films main plot, there will be a touching moment where we will realize they have developed a deep respect for one another, which will be the beginning of a life long friendship...

Either way it's hard to imagine them playing it out that Kirk was okay with becoming life long friends with someone that started out choking him. There's got to be middle ground there...

^Can you see life-long friendship coming out of that?

Also that scene from the naked now that implies Spock loved Kirk as much as 1960s TV would allow, is not what you seem to think it is. Vulcans, are a highly evolved race who have evolved beyond the need to show emotion. Spock's dad is a Vulcan, but his mother is a human. That is why he is talking about having had to suppress his emotions all his life, never having told his mother he loved her, and being ashamed whenever he thinks of his friendship with Kirk. He wasn't ashamed because he had some kind of supressed romantic feelings for Kirk that he was admitting to under the influence of the virus, he had a normal strong kind of brotherly friendship many of us guys have with our closest friends. He admitted to having felt ashamed of those feelings, because his Vulcan upbringing told him he was not suppose to have those feelings at all.

Spock going medieval on Kirk wasn't a frakkup because Spock would never do that to Kirk, but because as a good overly logical little Vulcan, Spock would not loose his temper and smack anyone. Vulcans are suppose to be beyond that. Maybe the movie will try to focus on how Spock has to struggle with his human side. Which again would be contrary to not only continuity, but also to the spirit of the character,  since Spock has often expressed his confusion and difficulty in understanding humans and their emotions and why they do the things they do.

Okay, so this is what happens when I make assumptions without knowing that much about the backstory.... I shall back out of this thread now. *leaves*

twister111 said:

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^Can you see life-long friendship coming out of that?

I dunno man, me and my mates have thrown some pretty good punches in each others direction in times past... for things like that, I'll wait till I see the movie to judge.

Okay, so this is what happens when I make assumptions without knowing that much about the backstory.... I shall back out of this thread now. *leaves*

No big deal, you don't have to know everything to qualify for discussion in this thread. I really don't know that much about ST myself, I guess I have seen about every episode of TOS and TNG, and all the films, but not so much of any of the other shows or the deeper lore, I find myself pretty lost and uninterested in ST fandom and nerdy details about it all.

I was looking forward to this before I saw the trailer, not so much now. Is that what a trailer is suppose to do??? Oh well, there were a lot of explosions. People like explosions. Oh, and some chick in her bra, bras are good. Sex and explosions. The two things real people go to the movies for, and something that was sorely lacking in all ST films prior to this one. This is going to be the highest grossing ST movie ever!!!

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the trailer is out on Youtube in great ol' crappovision, if anyone's interested

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EradGWJNsl4

Rather generic and very "epic." The exact opposite of what I would have wanted. ::yawn::

YOU KNOW WHAT?  I'M GOING TO GO IN WITH AN OPEN MIND AND HOPEFULLY ENJOY THIS MOVIE.  I WON'T BASE MY OPINION ON A TEASER TRAILER.

This is also only the second promo.  Films usually have three -

Teaser - this is usually very vague, rarely has any footage from the film.  It's just enough to tell the audience "Yes, the film is being made".

First trailer - this shows key images and characters from the film but usually reveals little if any info about the plot.

Second trailer - this one finally gives you the TV Guide version of what the story itself is about and how the various characters and images connect beyond what you didn't figure out already.

So far, we've seen the Teaser and First trailer.  The Second trailer usually shows up within 2 to 3 months of release, so we should be seeing that one somewhere in the February to March range.  That will be the one to pay attention to.  These first two are just to GET your attention and get buzz going.

PSYCHO_DAYV said:

YOU KNOW WHAT?  I'M GOING TO GO IN WITH AN OPEN MIND AND HOPEFULLY ENJOY THIS MOVIE.  I WON'T BASE MY OPINION ON A TEASER TRAILER.

Wow, I seem to remember having heard almost these exact same words from people regarding Revenge of the Sith, and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. It feels like I go to see or rent a lot of movies these days, not only with an open mind, but downright excited, only to be kicked in the balls by something more than awful.

My standards are not that high, Hollywoods standards are just getting that low.

I KNEW THAT CRYSTAL SKULL WAS GOING TO BE BAD, BUT I WENT TO THE PREMIER ANYWAY.

It looks like a homage to Qalaxy Quest.

Hunter6 said:

Brandon Routh's Superman was emotionless like....like..... an Vulcan. 

Brandon Routh fits the Leonard Nimoy/Spock mold more so then the superman mold.

Brandon Routh's facial features also seem to match Leonard Nimoy facial features better then....

Zachary Quinto.

I know most people think Zachary Quinto looks like Leonard Nimoy, but the truth is he does not.

Zachary Quinto's facial features are not like Leonard Nimoy facial features.

 

Uh, actually, I think Quinto looks much more like Nimoy than Routh does.  Even if the facial features aren't an exact match, they look much closer to Nimoy than Routh's does.

PSYCHO_DAYV said:

YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS A REBOOT OF THE ENTIRE SERIES.  IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFERENT, BECAUSE THE LATEST STAR TREK HAD BECOME STALE IN THE EYES OF THE STUDIOS NOT NECESSARILY IN THE EYES OF THE FANS.  WHEN YOU DO A REBOOT YOU WASH AWAY ALL THAT CAME BEFORE.  IT'S A HARD THING FOR FANS TO DO, BUT THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.  NOBODY IS FORCING ANYONE TO GO SEE THE REBOOT.  THAT'S YOUR CHOICE ALONE.

The reboot doesn't have to completely change the story though.  It could easily be a reboot that goes back to its roots.  The Batman reboot didn't completely change the story and that turned out great.  If the studio wants a different Trek, then I'm sure they'll get it.  Without the hardcore fans though, it's not going to go anywhere.  Remember, in order to get the "normals" into the box office, their Trek fan friends will have to bring them.  Otherwise it's just going to be regular folks saying "Well, that's Star Trek, and I'm not really into that".

EDIT: Something I forgot to mention.  So I'm watching the trailer and the cop asks the kid what his name is.  Now I don't know about you guys, but when someone asks me my name, I tend to leave out my middle name.  I know it's obviously there to tell us exactly who he is, but was the middle name really necessary?  I think a simple "James Kirk" or even "Jim Kirk" would have been fine.

You know what? This don't look too bad after seeing the trailer in full HD glory. http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/startrek/

I'm no Star Trek fan. Liked the films, watched TNG, but really couldn't give a rats arse about the rest. So for me it doesn't matter if they screw up the history of Star Trek or if Spock shouldn't act the way he does.

I just want to see a bloody good sci-fi film, something that I don't think has been done in a long while. I have faith in ol' JJ. After all, he did come up with one of the best TV shows in a long while - Lost. Also Alias was pretty good until he left, and MI3 was not a bad film at all.

So, yeah, I'm actually looking forward to this film. Like I said, I'm not really a fan of the Trek, so I should be OK.

I guess those special effects look like they'll be fun to watch.

Sorry but i am a fan of films 1-6 and the original series and will not be seeing this awful bastardization.  Its like a teen movie with explosions, half naked chicks and stupid dialog.  Just like Transformers by Bay.

Compare this trailer to the trailer for 1979's motion picture with the beautiful model of the enterprise and voice over by Orson Welles.  That was epic.  This looks like a teen drama dressed up as sci fi.  90210 trek fits it nicely.

The academy years concept that Harve Bennet came up with was similar if not as bad as the jj crap.  Even the romulan wars movie written by the band of brothers scribe would have been better. 

OOh look at the bad cgi and overly bright colors ILM at its prequel best.

The real Star Trek original series feel in the novels has also been few and far between.  I think Pocket books purposely neglected the original series so they can sell JJ related crap.  Though they still Have TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise novels well represented.  The only original series stuff is like mirror universe.

I hate these new sequels, reboots and prequels.

Sci Fi and movies were awesome back in the day 1977 had star wars, 1978 had superman and 1979 star trek the motion picture.  1980 Empire Strikes back, and 1982 Wrath of Khan. 1983 Return of the Jedi. 1984 the search for spock.  Back to the future 1985.  The Voyage Home 1986.  Undiscovered Country in 1991.

The new effects are awful the enterprise jumping to warp, and the space battles look like an animated cartoon.  and the writing is amateurish fanfic at best, awful at worst.  The studio throws them hundreds of millions of dollars.  When the last good trek film that was also an action flick and not real trek first contact was made for like 45 million or something.

Best Star trek movies:

1. Wrath of Khan.
2. Insurrection.
3. Generations.

There are other Star Trek movies that are good, but not in the Star Trek way. Star trek is about a cooperative team working to solve socially realistic problems in a science fiction setting. Having every movie be about epic confrontations and the few epic characters (like Kirk & Spock, Kirk & Spock, Data and Picard, Kirk & Spock) just plain sucks. It's boring as hell.

About special effects, those look better than what the prequels gave us, but even the prequels were nice in a way (as far as special effects go). The problem with modern movies is the way that special effects don't serve to heighten emotional and conceptual reactions.

I have enjoyed every star trek movie up until nemesis.  That movie just does not work for me at all.

Each trek film had a theme or message or dealt with something.  Even nemesis did the only film that seems to be a dumb action flick is first contact. 

The worst films Final Frontier, Insurrection, Generations and Nemesis.  I can honestly say those are the worst.

Though Final Frontier and Insurrection feel like star trek.  Generations was a crap way to kill off the kirk character and an awful movie above all.  The same theme of death and aging had been dealt with better in wrath of khan and did not need a rehash in generations or nemesis.  Shit they even revisited it in insurrection.

None of the films seem particularly original in that regard.  Except for II and VI.

skyjedi2005 said:

The worst films Final Frontier, Insurrection, Generations and Nemesis.  I can honestly say those are the worst.

Though Final Frontier and Insurrection feel like star trek.  Generations was a crap way to kill off the kirk character and an awful movie above all.  The same theme of death and aging had been dealt with better in wrath of khan and did not need a rehash in generations or nemesis.  Shit they even revisited it in insurrection.

I always hated Final Frontier, from the first time I saw it I though it was pretty boring and lame. It is probably my least favorite of anything ST (other than Enterprise). The first time I saw generations, I thought it was awesome. I certianly see it as a more flawed movie now, but I still enjoy it well enough. I like Malcolm McDowelll, so I always thought it was pretty cool having him as the main bad guy. 

I have also always thought Insurrection was pretty cool, it doesn't feel like a huge epic sci-fi film, instead it feels like something that would have been a two part episode of TNG, which is something I really like about it. 

I liked Nemesis' futuristic ST feel, by that I mean how the uniforms and technology were a step ahead of what we had seen in the other movies and shows, giving it a feeling a technological progression. But that was just an atmospheric thing, and does nothing to help the story, which seriously needed some help.

C3PX said:

skyjedi2005 said:

The worst films Final Frontier, Insurrection, Generations and Nemesis.  I can honestly say those are the worst.

Though Final Frontier and Insurrection feel like star trek.  Generations was a crap way to kill off the kirk character and an awful movie above all.  The same theme of death and aging had been dealt with better in wrath of khan and did not need a rehash in generations or nemesis.  Shit they even revisited it in insurrection.

 

I always hated Final Frontier, from the first time I saw it I though it was pretty boring and lame. It is probably my least favorite of anything ST (other than Enterprise). The first time I saw generations, I thought it was awesome. I certianly see it as a more flawed movie now, but I still enjoy it well enough. I like Malcolm McDowelll, so I always thought it was pretty cool having him as the main bad guy. 

I have also always thought Insurrection was pretty cool, it doesn't feel like a huge epic sci-fi film, instead it feels like something that would have been a two part episode of TNG, which is something I really like about it. 

I liked Nemesis' futuristic ST feel, by that I mean how the uniforms and technology were a step ahead of what we had seen in the other movies and shows, giving it a feeling a technological progression. But that was just an atmospheric thing, and does nothing to help the story, which seriously needed some help.

About a year ago, I was still progressing through my Trek moviedom.  I'd seen II, III, and IV, and Generations, but that was it.  So one weekend, I filled in a couple of gaps by renting TMP and V.  Honestly, TMP bored the hell out of me.  So when I watched Final Frontier, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit more.  Yeah, it was a bit hokey, but at least it was interesting.  It's still fun as a bit of a romp, and I also enjoy the scene with McCoy and his dad.  I can understand, and on many different levels, why it's considered the worst, but I have no problem watching it.

Not being a big TNG follower, I also don't get the hate associated with Generations.  I enjoyed it as well.  I wasn't exactly thrilled with killing Kirk off, but I'd known about it long before I ever saw the movie, so it was something I was prepared for.  It's actually funny to listen to the commentary, though.  The writers spend the entire two hours doing nothing but bashing and lambasting their own movie!