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Abrams is Destroying Star Trek like Lucas has Destroyed Star Wars — Page 14

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FanFiltration said:
I don't think that they had to find an actor who would do a flat out Shatner impression, just someone who would have that Shatner like attitude, movement, and speaking style in general.   When SW: episode 1 came out, I was very impressed with the choice of Ewan McGregor as a young version of Obi-wan.  You see, for me he fit the mold set by the original actor, and had enough similarities to help me believe (within the context of the storytelling experience) that this was a younger version of the same character. From what I have seen so far, I don’t buy Pine as Kirk. When there was this rumor that Matt Damon was in consideration to play Kirk in this film, I felt he was a good choice and had a good Shatner like quality. I think Zachary Quinto has that Vulcan factor, but will he be a good Spock is still up in the air for me. 

I feel the same way.

Ewan McGregor did not look or talk like Alec Guinness, but he did fit the mold of A Young Obi-Wan for me also.

Pine does not fit Kirk. People may rip on William Shatner, but Pine with his male version of marilyn monroe's voice is way worst and just wrong for The Main Character of the Film.

On another Note:

I am sick of hearing People saying that The Old Enterprise Design would not work on the big screen or that it is too out of date.

Full-res Pic at:

http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/deg3d_tos_5_e_pu_19562.jpg

 

 

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 (Edited)

Personally, I think The Old Enterprise Design would not work on the big screen, it is too out of date.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I think the model photography from the motion picture holds up very way today, certainly better than the cgi from the new film will look in even five years time.

Because from a design standpoint they did it right, Probert who designed the Refit Enterprise 1701 with the help of Richard Edlund and others.  And then John Dykstra and crew filmed them.

Probert was very conscious of keeping Jefferies design in mind while at the same time making a model whose scale would work for the big screen and not tv.  The original tv model was in the smithsonian and was not useable in any case and the phase II model that was already half completed was also unusable because it was built for a tv production.

The enterprise from the first film is still considered breathtaking even today, but a good deal of that is because of the weight and scale of the model gives you a sense of reality, and nobody can replace Jerry Goldsmith either.  That would be as absurd as getting someone else other than John Williams to do the music for star wars.

No Matter what to me this is like the prequels complete modern bullshit.  Not Shot on film, 90% green screen, blue screen and cgi.  No real models.  Made to Look action packed sexy and flashy but lacking any substance.

I  saw City on the Edge of Forever the other day and was amazed how great good star trek can be, that reminded me and so does some of the movies from the 1-6 years.  First Contact was a good action flick, which only had any Gravitas because of Patrick Stewart.  But this new movie lacks even that.  As much as i like Bruce Greenfield.  

The new movie Lacks any well knowns or any big name caliber actors.  Unless you consider a guy who had his day in the sun, Bana as a big name. 

Trek II had Ricardo montalban as Khan.  VI had Christopher Plummer as General Chang. 

III had Christopher LLoyd a poor choice in my mind, and Anyway hes cemented into peoples minds as doc brown from back to the future,lol.

VII had Malcolm McDowell in an entirely wasted role.

Maybe if the script was better on nemesis and they had a competant director, and had Patrick Stewart play Shinzon as well as Picard the film would have been. Better.

What Trek II undertstood that the first film lacked was that you had to have a Villain to play the hero off of.  It also understood that the relationships between the characters was more important than the spaceships or the effects.  It dealt with the concept of Death and age.  The characters were not carboard cutouts or made to be a joke.  There were no Jar Jar like lines "I like this ship it's exciting".

Meyer as a dramatist and Stage writer new the story should focus on all the emotions of the human condition.  Even considering that one of the characters was half human and logical and kept his emotion in check.

I'm not sorry to point this out that this movie is trying to remake wrath of Khan and the Star Wars series all in one.  Nero is another Khan ripoff just like Shinzon, and if the Rumor is true that Nimoys spock dies in this movie to save the characters of the Alternate trek verse it should be banned.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I thought Chris Lloyd did a great job in STIII. And it's funny you say that everyone remembers him as Doc Brown. Although that's true (and Reverend Jim), he's still a great actor beyond that, and his stint in Star Trek was a year before BTTF even came out!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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C3PX said:

Personally, I think The Old Enterprise Design would not work on the big screen, it is too out of date.

Oh come on, The I-prise's outsides in the new movie is just TMP retrofitted Enterprise, all mess up.

TMP retrofitted Enterprise is a 1978 Design and has not being used since 1992.

that least the TOS ship has been used in the past 17 years on DS9 (1996), ENT (2005) and ST:R (2006-2008. 

Also The NX-01 (2001-2005) feautre Designs from the TOS ship and The Enterprise-E (1996-2001) had more of a TOS ship Design then the D had. 

The only things the TOS needed is Better rendering, Aztec hull details, more real looking windows and maybe a little bigger pylons.

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He is right though.  They had the scale right in the original motion picture series.  JJ is more likely going for the coruscant prequel look here with these overscale buildings, and it is just silly.  Then again almost every design from this movie is bloated, wonky and ugly where a more simple approach and beauty of the older films would have looked better imho.

Ryan Church worked on Star Wars Episode II and III.  you want to talk about films being poorly designed, and yet he gets to revise the trek universe,lol.

Flashy and bright cartoon esque cgi versus the scale and realism brought by the aged universe of the old school models.  The thing is Lucas betrayed his original design sense that they were not going for a bright and flashy shiny spaceships or overdone costumes look.  and what did he do in the prequels what he original said was bad for the star wars universe.  In fact what he said was wrong with other big budget sci fi films.

And Here JJ is doing the same.  Roddenberrys unique vision is about humanity, idealism and the characters and exploring new worlds.  Not explosions, rampant militarism and special effects, or defects as i will now call them in this film.  Star Trek was about peaceful exploration.  This jjverse is a lot like that alternate timeline in the next generation in yesterdays enterprise where the vessel Enterprise D was a vessel of war and not  of exploration.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Funny, I too have ran across the army of yes-men with the over-the-top ridiculously cheerleading for JJ's trek on other trek sites (like trekmovie.com). It is why I started this Star Trek post on this star wars site in the first place.

I know from working in the ad world in my 20's that website shills are real. These secret shills are pay by companies to do the over-the-top cheerleading posting on web sites for the companies. Some Hostels, Restaurants and so on use these secret shills.

 
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From www.aintitcool.com TalkBack:
How much is JJ paying the TalkBack marketeers?
by gruntybear    Mar 15th, 2009
11:14:03 PM
I mean, seriously. Every time there's another "Dawson's Trek" non-story on the site, we get an army of yes-men practically ejaculating about how fricken' a-maaaa-zing this Trek-in-name-only abomination will be. How much does being a viral TalkBack marketeer pay? From the ridiculously over-the-top cheerleading that seems to accompany every Trek story, I would guess it's a fairly lucrative profession.

http://www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/40444#comment_2559189

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You mean that those asshats running that fake site i got banned from are actually getting paid to help destroy Star Trek?  and they call themselves fans of Gene Roddenberry. 

Like when Paramount gives out free dvd or tv boxsets to reviewers expecting a positive review to boost sales.

Me i personally like sites that give real reviews backed up with real reporting behind them and not just vapor.

 Trekmovie is the same as tfn for star wars, but here for star  trek.

 

"TFN i hate those guys."  I say in the tone of Indiana Jones,lol.

 

As far as i know those TFN guys and gals or whatever they are don't get paid to help destroy star wars.   They are just George Lucas fanboy or fangirl nerds who give over every paycheck to their master for more of his table scraps.

The funniest thing of all as i have said before is that Altman aka Free Enterprise is the guy who coined the "George Lucas raped our childhood" phrase is a guy on staff at trekmovie.com.

Here is a guy who in 1997 and 1999 went out of his way to redicule George Lucas for destroying his own creation but now is Cheerleading Somebody else on to change as much as possible as gene roddenberry's.

But then again he said he was not a Roddenberry fan but a Meyer fan.  You know the guy who took the film series away from Roddenberry with Paramounts approval.  Years later Paramount made up to Roddenberry for taking away the film series from him and cancelling the original show by allowing him  free reign on a second television series which became the next generation.

Gene R. passed away and Berman took over the entire franchise running it like Michael Eisner ran Disney. 

The family had no say whatsoever in what they did to Gene's creation because he gave all his rights away to get the damn thing made in the first place.  Unlike Lucas who controls all things star wars and does not have to worry about someone else coming in and raping his franchise.

Michael Piller was one of the people who was true to gene's vision and did great things for the next generation, (except Insurrection which most fans hate) While Berman, Bragga and Moore ran it into the ground.

Even though i enjoyed Berman's derivative trek based on the creation of roddenberry Like His seasons of star trek the next generation, deep space nine, voyager and enterprise.  My favorite because of its classic coolness and nostalgia value is the original series mainly the first 2 seasons.  Season 3 despite a couple of memorable episodes was absolute cheese in competition with lost in space.

I like how in the remaster They cleaned up the live action footage from the original camera negative but hate the new CGI.  The upcoming Blu RAy release solves that through branching the old opticals with the cleaned up footage.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I'm hoping the crew has to travel to Ardana for some reason.  Then we get to spend a little time on the other cloud city and see Droxine.  I think Reese Witherspoon would be perfect.

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I could not get passed the first page of this new "Star Trek: Countdown" movie tie-in comic.  What the heck kind of writing is this? Why do they have Romulans talking that way?  

 

Romulan Woman Bridge Officer: "No time to explane Big Boy. Just get your ass up here."

 

This is how Romulan officers talk to each other? 

 

And this is the same dude writing the film?  That's sad news.

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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well he is the same guy who had Optimus Frickin Prime saying "my bad" in Transformers and Bumblebee peeing on a guy.  That was about as stupid as Jar Jar Binks stepping in poo.  Oh yeah he also has Scotty saying " I like this ship it is exciting!"

Kirk in the bar says like a strung out junky " why are you talking to me man"  Seriously i cannot imagine Shatner saying things like that.   Just put a space or pause in between each word,lol.

I mean i know when i was a teenager we used to all talk like that, and sometimes i revert to talking that way myself but in the 23rd Century they have a 90's american type speech banter.

and they drive gasoline powered Fast cars and motorcycles,lol.  I thought this was science fiction.

Even Kirks communicator looks like a motorola fliphone cel.  The enterprise looks like an ipod store.

Well at least the product placement will not be as bad as Bayformers, hopefully.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Okay, I could have sworn those last two posts from FF and sky were posted a long time ago. I know I have read those comments before, but yet they were just posted today. I am experiencing some weird form of forum deja vu. Or... perhaps I have become unstuck in time? Poo-tee-weet?

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Hunter6 said:
C3PX said:

Personally, I think The Old Enterprise Design would not work on the big screen, it is too out of date.

Oh come on, The I-prise's outsides in the new movie is just TMP retrofitted Enterprise, all mess up.

TMP retrofitted Enterprise is a 1978 Design and has not being used since 1992.

that least the TOS ship has been used in the past 17 years on DS9 (1996), ENT (2005) and ST:R (2006-2008. 

Also The NX-01 (2001-2005) feautre Designs from the TOS ship and The Enterprise-E (1996-2001) had more of a TOS ship Design then the D had. 

The only things the TOS needed is Better rendering, Aztec hull details, more real looking windows and maybe a little bigger pylons.

 

I was making a joke based on your comment, "I am sick of hearing People saying that The Old Enterprise Design would not work on the big screen or that it is too out of date."

I have zero interest in this new piece-o-crap licensed Trek rip off, and would eb the last to defend it. I love the old Enterprise design and will never grow tired of looking at in, no matter how big the screen is. That ship has always worked. This new Apple i-Prise looks like pants.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

Okay, I could have sworn those last two posts from FF and sky were posted a long time ago. I know I have read those comments before, but yet they were just posted today. I am experiencing some weird form of forum deja vu. Or... perhaps I have become unstuck in time? Poo-tee-weet?

 

 

No, that is the first time I was making that comment because today was the first day I had the comic book in my hands. In my opinion, the story and the writing of the comic book is sub standard run of the mill crap. And yes, I did tough it out and read the complete first two issues.  This is now an absolute FACT to me, and an opinion made by viewing the official work in question. By reading the story for myself (not based on any type of sneak preview review, rumor, or promo material), I saw first hand that the story premise that this new movie is based on is absolutely a rip off of other famous sci-fi works. Most notably the "SUPERMAN" origin story. Sorry if my opinion upsets people, but that's my opinion of the background story as it stands in print thus far. I'm not trashing a movie I've not seen yet, only the ability of the writers working within the Trek universe based on what they have released thus far.  Am I going to see the new film? Sure, but I just don't have high hopes for it being anything more then a poorly scripted novelty piece.

 

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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Maybe sky already mentioned the "my bad" and Bumblebee peeing thing and that through me off. Or maybe someone else already commented on the comic book. So weird.

Even the comment about the female Romulan and the "get your ass over here" line, so sure I heard it before. Man, I think I am going nuts!

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

Okay, I could have sworn those last two posts from FF and sky were posted a long time ago. I know I have read those comments before, but yet they were just posted today. I am experiencing some weird form of forum deja vu. Or... perhaps I have become unstuck in time? Poo-tee-weet?

 

Hmm, If you're going insane then so am I.

 

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You remember it too? Tell me you remember it too Johnny!

 

Perhaps we are dealing with some kind of temporal anomaly? An alternative reality where FF bought the comic book weeks ago? I am half expected to find myself in France as an eighty year old man pruning my grape vineyard.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Okay, so this was bothering me so much (and I obviously have nothing better to do at the moment) that I started at page one and searched certain key words from the two deja vu posts. Here is what I came up with:

Out of the fourteen pages in this thread, sky mentions "my bad" and the Bumblebee peeing thing from the Transformers movie in about half of them (literally! Don't believe me, check it out for yourself. I am impressed at that man's dedication!)

Also, around page nine or so, we did have a discussion about the comic book, and sky had this to say about it,

skyjedi2005 said:

I hope "get your ass up here, big boy"  is only indicative of comic book cheese and is not the level of dialogue associated with the film.  After the cringe worthy dialogue in Transformers consider me worried.

 

So, I am not going crazy! There are no eddies in the space time continum, and no temporal anomaly that might prevent life from ever evolving on earth. Phew!

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

You remember it too? Tell me you remember it too Johnny!

 

Perhaps we are dealing with some kind of temporal anomaly? An alternative reality where FF bought the comic book weeks ago? I am half expected to find myself in France as an eighty year old man pruning my grape vineyard.

 

Chateau C3PX?

So it's just the same few points being reiterated then. Boring old reality. I guess if they hadn't pushed the releae date back we'd be over all this by now. the release still feels like forever away. Not that i'm hotly anticipating it. I expect the film to not deliver, but i still intend to see it and decide later.

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C3PX said:

Okay, so this was bothering me so much (and I obviously have nothing better to do at the moment) that I started at page one and searched certain key words from the two deja vu posts. Here is what I came up with:

Out of the fourteen pages in this thread, sky mentions "my bad" and the Bumblebee peeing thing from the Transformers movie in about half of them (literally! Don't believe me, check it out for yourself. I am impressed at that man's dedication!)

Also, around page nine or so, we did have a discussion about the comic book, and sky had this to say about it,

skyjedi2005 said:

I hope "get your ass up here, big boy"  is only indicative of comic book cheese and is not the level of dialogue associated with the film.  After the cringe worthy dialogue in Transformers consider me worried.

 

So, I am not going crazy! There are no eddies in the space time continum, and no temporal anomaly that might prevent life from ever evolving on earth. Phew!

Well, I had not seen that quote by Sky before your re-post of it. Just seems I happen to agree with some other posters on the non-classic sounding script, and a few other techniques being employed in the making of this new film.   We all have a right to engage in this discussion, and so what if the same positive or negative aspects of the movie are repeated over and over. I’ve never seen problems with that in any other discussion on the forum. When the movie comes out I may have to eat some crow, and just say how good it is over and over.  I just may want to discuses my favorite scenes more then one time, and I would not even mind if other people would make mention of that same scenes or quoted lines of dialog in there posts within the thread. And by the same right, I may do the exact same thing if the movie just plain sucks. Then, I may repeatedly mention segments of the film that had been disappointing or simply ridiculous. That’s what this forum is all about.  If people are having a positive or negative impression going into this film, then I want to know why.

 

 

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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skyjedi2005 said:

You mean that those asshats running that fake site i got banned from are actually getting paid to help destroy Star Trek? 

Yes, I'm starting to think TM.C is paid for by JJ and I think other sites are on his payroll.

Trekmovie started the same day it was said (to us) JJ got Trek. 

Trekkies/Trekkers are know for being Canon-nazis, But I'm reading things on TM.C like "ban the Canon in 2009" WTF

Things like that does not fits the Trekkies'/Trekkers' profile.

 

Also, It has been 6 months since my ban from TM.C and I think my ban has been lifted.

I have been able to post on the site. So, if you are ban from TM.C... it lasts 6 months. 

 

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FanFiltration said:
C3PX said:

Okay, so this was bothering me so much (and I obviously have nothing better to do at the moment) that I started at page one and searched certain key words from the two deja vu posts. Here is what I came up with:

Out of the fourteen pages in this thread, sky mentions "my bad" and the Bumblebee peeing thing from the Transformers movie in about half of them (literally! Don't believe me, check it out for yourself. I am impressed at that man's dedication!)

Also, around page nine or so, we did have a discussion about the comic book, and sky had this to say about it,

skyjedi2005 said:

I hope "get your ass up here, big boy"  is only indicative of comic book cheese and is not the level of dialogue associated with the film.  After the cringe worthy dialogue in Transformers consider me worried.

 

So, I am not going crazy! There are no eddies in the space time continum, and no temporal anomaly that might prevent life from ever evolving on earth. Phew!

 

Just seems I happen to agree with some other posters on the non-classic sounding script, and a few other techniques being employed in the making of this new film.   We all have a right to engage in this discussion, and so what if the same positive or negative aspects of the movie are repeated over and over. I’ve never seen problems with that in any other discussion on the forum.

 

I certainly don't have a problem with it. I just found it funny, because I seriously thought I was back a few pages when I started reading the thread, I knew I had read someone comment on that exact line of the comic book before, and I knew I had read most of the things in Sky's post before, so I really thought I was reading old posts until I looked at the date.

Ha! And I highly doubt you will have to eat crow after the film comes out. It is going to be the balls.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape