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A New Direction For The Petition

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A few months ago, I posted a message in the "Suggestions And Ideas" section asking if anyone was interested in this site's petition having a new direction in light of the less-than-stellar OT set released last year on DVD. While the official run on this release is over (December 31, I think?), this DVD can still be found on many store shelves.

Anyway, the long and the short of the situation is that we now have the OT on DVD, and the current petition is now outdated.

I and others feel that it is time to clarify our request on this site's petition. We think it is time to start petitioning for an OT release in higher-quality on BluRay or HD-DVD, as well as in any future storage formats. Some are also asking for remastering to be done for this release. One person has suggested that this site take a hard-line stance on SW releases, saying, "It's the original or bust."

Along with this, I personally feel that while we are at it, we should also be petitioning for the release of deleted scenes/making of material from the original trilogy.

After the original thread sat stagnant for several months, Jay suggested that we repost this in the general discussion section to catch a wider spread of folks for their opinion.

What does everyone else think?

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I agree. I do not yet own a HD television so the GOUT actually looks good enough for me right now (except for all that nasty grain in SW and ESB) but I'm thinking of what will be in my house five years from now. I feel the Original Unmolested Trilogy should be scanned in high definition, restored to a perfect, grainless, scratchless, slice-tapeless, blemish-free print without changing color temperature, FX, adding or subtracting anything of conceptual value, and presented anamorphically for widescreen. ALL of the original mixes should be presented as audio options in the highest quality the format will allow. For SW, the crawl should be selectable between '77 and '81. And deleted material should be restored in HD and presented as a supplement, including the original Jabba scene with the fat guy stand in.

Star Wars HD presentations should be a pioneer in the field, not a Johnny-come-lately.

Finally, somebody independent of THX should certify the release. The THX-certification on the 2004-2006 releases was nothing less than corporate nepotism.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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I think the mission statement of this website is to continue getting exposure about the difference between the OOT & SE, almost an advertising blitz that says, "There are 2 versions of the The Original SW Trilogy, and the versions that everyone saw from 1977-83, are not the ones that are recognized."

Now I know this sounds redundant, but trust me, only the diehards like us know the difference between the OOT & SE, and there are a hell of alot of casual fans who love the movies, but haven't seen them 1,000 times like us, who have been duped by Lucas and the revisionism of the last 10 years. I can't tell you how many older fans of SW that I tell that Jabba was not in the first SW movie, and they have to actually think about it. What happened is they have seen the SE on Cable or HBO in the past 10 years, and just haven't realized that stuff has been changed.

We should be trying to get entertainment magazines, internet sites, etc. to spread the word that the OOT, or the Original Versions of SW still need to get a great release on DVD or HD-DVD, it sounds very minor, but you guys would be suprised at how much the casual SW fan really doesn't know about the SE vs OOT movies.
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Originally posted by: CO
I think the mission statement of this website is to continue getting exposure about the difference between the OOT & SE, almost an advertising blitz that says, "There are 2 versions of the The Original SW Trilogy, and the versions that everyone saw from 1977-83, are not the ones that are recognized."

Now I know this sounds redundant, but trust me, only the diehards like us know the difference between the OOT & SE, and there are a hell of alot of casual fans who love the movies, but haven't seen them 1,000 times like us, who have been duped by Lucas and the revisionism of the last 10 years. I can't tell you how many older fans of SW that I tell that Jabba was not in the first SW movie, and they have to actually think about it. What happened is they have seen the SE on Cable or HBO in the past 10 years, and just haven't realized that stuff has been changed.

We should be trying to get entertainment magazines, internet sites, etc. to spread the word that the OOT, or the Original Versions of SW still need to get a great release on DVD or HD-DVD, it sounds very minor, but you guys would be suprised at how much the casual SW fan really doesn't know about the SE vs OOT movies.


+1
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I'll sign it. There's no reason why dedicated transfers to specific formats, utilizing the new technology as best as possible, cannot exist. I also like the idea of spreading the word about the OT and its merits as a work of art, but perhaps that should be a separate, new petition?

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I would hope with all of my heart that whatever direction the site takes now could do some good. Really, if we could have anyone on board, it'd be a start.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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I don't want to discourage people, but I do not think we are going to see the OOT on any HD format. George wants these versions to be forgotten about. When HD fully takes off the newer generations of Star Wars fans are not going to want to go from watching a 1080p transfer of the films back to a dated 1977 un-animorphic transfer on standard DVD no matter how much better the originals are over the SE's. George has accomplished his goal of killing the OOT with the big help of HD media. He wants to kill off the OOT and HD formats will do that for him so why would he release the OOT on any HD format. I personally don't care that much anymore, because I only watch the OOT once in a while. I watch the SE when I am watching the entire saga. I am also running out of energy to care for these films. The hype is completely gone, and there is no new movies comming out anytime soon. Star Wars at this point is really just becoming a set of movies to me. I have become tolerant of the PT, and just don't really care anymore what George does to these films.


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If 5-25-77 is a hit when it comes out, that might renew interest in the original film. We would really need someone like Roger Ebert in our corner though...
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Where were you in '77?

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Originally posted by: SilverWook
If 5-25-77 is a hit when it comes out, that might renew interest in the original film. We would really need someone like Roger Ebert in our corner though...
What?

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Originally posted by: vbangle
Originally posted by: SilverWook
If 5-25-77 is a hit when it comes out, that might renew interest in the original film. We would really need someone like Roger Ebert in our corner though...
What?


We'd need someone with clout willing to champion the OOT; Kevin Smith, Leonard Maltin, Robert A. Harris, whomever. We'd also need to take out adds in magazines if possible, and do everything in our power full fucking force.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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MST3K fans once got together to take out a full page ad in Variety to save the show, so that sort of thing is certainly feasable.
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Where were you in '77?

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^^ Yes, but who is willing to take on this challenge?

 

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Isn't the simplest thing for the petition to just be "Hey, release the Original version Star Wars trilogy on Bluray"? I don't have a bluray player, but it's simple, clear, and requires a new transfer. (Bluray because it's Fox.)
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Originally posted by: SilverWook
MST3K fans once got together to take out a full page ad in Variety to save the show, so that sort of thing is certainly feasable.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of.

Isn't the simplest thing for the petition to just be "Hey, release the Original version Star Wars trilogy on Bluray"? I don't have a bluray player, but it's simple, clear, and requires a new transfer. (Bluray because it's Fox.)


Unless HD wins the format war. And then there will be whatever comes after HD and BR. The OOT needs respect always, regardless of the format.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Mike O

Unless HD wins the format war. And then there will be whatever comes after HD and BR. The OOT needs respect always, regardless of the format.



HD I still believe will be a niche market, sorta like laserdisk, cause the % of people who own HDTV's right now is very small. I just don't see the average consumer 5-10 years from now buying these huge 55" HD Widescreen TV's. I think there is always the Home Theater Fans like many of us who were delve into HD-DVD once the format war is settled, but I believe the majority of consumers will be happy with their Standard DVD's for many years out, and won't be re-buying all of them in HD when available.

In saying that, I still believe if we could get a proper release of the OOT on Standard DVD, I would be happy forever. Zombie and I have talked about this before, and I do agree that HD is better then Standard DVD, but it is not the same leap from VHS to DVD, it is more the leap from 5.1 Dolby Digital to DTS, better, but not earth shattering. I love buying movies on DVD, and hope HDDVD format war is settled someday, but I know I will be picky in which movies I buy that I wasn't when I first got a DVD player back in 1998.

Going by Lucas's track record, even if HD-DVD or BlueRay take off and win the format war in the next year, he and Spielberg won't put out their movies til the format becomes more mainstream so they can sell to a bigger market share, so SW movies probably won't see the light of day til 2011-2012? So that still gives another 5 years of Standard DVD for Lucas to milk, and I believe there is one more release left for an Ultimate Boxset of all 6 movies including the OOT remastered, and then I can honestly say I would be contempt.
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Yes, it does depend on mainstream acceptance--or does it? It is true that only a small percentage of people own HD dispays right now but I am amazed at how that is changing. It's like flat-screen displays--six years ago they were home theater specialty items but now you can't even buy a regualr non-flat CRT television, they simply don't manufacture them anymore, and LCD is quickly replacing CRT as well. HD displays have boomed simply enormously in the last two years or so, and over the next five they will increase even more. Remember HD displays don't mean huge, 50 inch screens, most of them are in the 30 inch zone, which is about standard for middle-class homes these days. My feeling is that by 2010 or 2012, even though SD displays will still outnumber them, HD displays will be common and not a highly-priced specialty item.

As it relates to Star Wars, many people point out that the DVD release was absolutely ridiculously late, and only occured once VHS tapes ceased being manufactured. But I maintain that this bungled and criticized course of action might not necessarily be repeated. Why? Because all six films have already been released in HD! I talk about the much larger percentage of people watching HD by five years from now--but how many people were watching HD broadcasts a year ago? Much, much less, and yet Lucasfilm still allowed all six films to be distributed onto HD broadcast. So, with that in mind, a Blu-ray release, while still farther away than anyone would like, I defintily don't think will follow the DVD timetable. IMO, after HD-DVD is put out of manufacturing in 2008 and Blu-Ray becomes the HD standard, we could have some kind of release by 2010, which would be a nice TV show tie-in if thats when the live-action series commences. Wishful thinking perhaps, but not too unrealistic.
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Originally posted by: CO
HD I still believe will be a niche market, sorta like laserdisk, cause the % of people who own HDTV's right now is very small. I just don't see the average consumer 5-10 years from now buying these huge 55" HD Widescreen TV's. I think there is always the Home Theater Fans like many of us who were delve into HD-DVD once the format war is settled, but I believe the majority of consumers will be happy with their Standard DVD's for many years out, and won't be re-buying all of them in HD when available.


What world do you live on? I live in Southern California and with just a few, and I mean a few, exceptions widescreen tvs are the only thing available in the stores right now.....4:3 is DEAD. Even my techno scared "older than dirt" parents have a widescreen plasma they watch the evening news on.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Originally posted by: vbangle

What world do you live on? I live in Southern California and with just a few, and I mean a few, exceptions widescreen tvs are the only thing available in the stores right now.....4:3 is DEAD. Even my techno scared "older than dirt" parents have a widescreen plasma they watch the evening news on.


I live in an affluent suburb in the Northeast, and most people I know DONT have a HDTV, and many of them who do have a 4:3 HDTV, probably around 32" or so. Now I am not saying people aren't going to buy these sets in the next 10 years, cause I agree that HD populates all of the Best Buy space, but that doesn't mean these people are going to go out buy an HD Player and rebuy all their movies on HD too.

You have to understand that the majority don't care, or dont' take time to care about the best quality picture they can have. DVD was such a leap from VHS for so many reasons that didn't have to do with quality: No rewinding when you are done a movie, count me in! The movie won't break if you play it too many times, count me in! Oh, and it looks great, that's even better! Wait, what are these damn black bars! How many movies are still put out in fullscreen for the average consumer? All of them!

You will always have the diehards like us who want a great quality picture, but then you have the majority that don't buy stuff until the price comes down to normal levels, and so on. And just look at how slow HD Channels are catching on, as I remember reading back in 2003 that ALL channels would be up to speed by 2007, and the last time I checked on my HD Channels here was the list:

ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS, A&E, HBO, CINEMAX, SHOWTIME, STARZ, ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, DISC, UNIVERSAL, HYWW. Now of course every Cable System is different, but the bottom line is if HD was so huge, the majority of channels would be HD, instead of the minority of them.

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Fine, but let's just keep things simple. Point is, a Bluray version will force the creation of a new transfer, that will then trickle down everywhere else. Right now, you can go into Target and buy a Bluray disc of Flatliners or the Terminator, so it's a perfectly reasonable thing to petition for.
As for the people who don't know the difference between HD, BD, blah blah, who cares? They're the ones saying "The original version of Star Wars? You GOT that! It came out last year! Aren't you people ever happy?"
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CO, in all fairness the channels thing is more about quality than quantity--true, not all channels are HD but all the MAJOR ones are, and thats huge. Its similar to the way that it doesn't really matter that much if Lions Gate and Anchor Bay go Blu Ray so much as Paramount, Fox, Columbia, Warner and MGM do.

But with regards to TV's, theres still tons of 4x3 CRT SD televisions out there, they are by far the majority, and maybe people in the LA area are more up to date with technology but elsewhere things are not quite advanced--but they are getting there. Flat-screen displays have already taken over and 16x9 displays are on the verge of taking over as well. Most people can't yet afford a plasma display of any kind, but the lower-quality ancestors of LCD displays are pretty much within the grasp of most people by now. HD displays are still too expensive for most, especially considering that even fewer have the capability of displaying HD content (which would require satalite/digital cable and/or Blu-Ray players, which are far too expensive for your average home right now) but thats changing with startling speed that has really surprised me. Soon all of these advancements will merge--by 2010 you will probably be able to buy a 30 inch flatscreen LCD HD display for well under a grande, and thats when it will really penetrate the middle-class market and then slowly spread into the lower-income households as prices continue to go down with the mass-adoption.

But as for a new transfer--the problems on the 2004 disk are inherant in the telecine itself, the actual film. It was made in HD, which is why the HD broadcasts are the same crappy 2004 image with crushed blacks, super-saturation and weird colourings--i hate to say it but theres a good chance this is what we'll see on Blu-Ray. The only thing that would change this is if Lucas went and did more changes--a reasonable thing--but then this would likely push back the release date as well.
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I think this would be the next logical step. Perhaps the new petition should focus on the aspect that the OOT should finally be acknowledged by Lucasfilm again, and that they should restore it to make a high definition release possible for future generations to enjoy. Preservation should be the main focus, because the original films are, no matter what the creator thinks of them now, a valuable piece of movie history, and thus, deserve to be seen.

I think this should start as soon as possible to built up enough "fuzz" before Lucasfilm will release the trilogy again, because they have to go back to the original negatives once more to remaster them in hi-def (since the 2004 restorations were not done completely in full HD, and were rushed). If the buzz is strong enough, maybe they will decide at the right point in time to remaster the original scenes along with the updated version.
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Originally posted by: COSo that still gives another 5 years of Standard DVD for Lucas to milk, and I believe there is one more release left for an Ultimate Boxset of all 6 movies including the OOT remastered, and then I can honestly say I would be contempt.



I do not care why or how, if I get the OOT remastered, I will be happy and pay any price.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death