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http://ttrim.blogspot.com
A Frightening Possibility
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“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK
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I would not want such a device, but not because of the big brother aspect. I simply do not see how its any more convenient.
Besides, if you had a chip in your hand/arm...you escalate the violence necessary for identity theft.
In the past, you might get your purse snatched. Now, they have to cut off your hand/arm.
As for Warbler's comment about being 'borgafied'...depending on the application of other cybernetic technologies, I would not be opposed to taking advantage of them. as a couple examples, the idea of artery-cleaning nanotechnology is very much appealing. External muscular augmentation (one of those suits that is mimics to your movements and helps do the work) would be very interesting, and if they could develop sensory implants to increase your visual range (imagine seeing a flower in the ultraviolet spectrum the way a honey bee does) and auditory ability, I might be there. Linking to a computer and controlling it with my mind, that would be very interesting, but I'd definitely make sure it was a non-internet equipped machine.
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Originally posted by: starkiller
I don't see the need. In today's society, everything has to be done faster, faster, faster. Is pulling a credit card from your wallet, getting it read, then returning it to the wallet REALLY that wasteful timewise??
To play devil advocate: Credit card can be lost and stolen.
again To play devil advocate: true, it would be more violent, but much more difficult to do, especially without getting caught. Also there many thieves who have no problem with stealing identies and purses, but would have a problen cutting someone's arm off.
Originally posted by: starkiller
As for Warbler's comment about being 'borgafied'...depending on the application of other cybernetic technologies, I would not be opposed to taking advantage of them. as a couple examples, the idea of artery-cleaning nanotechnology is very much appealing. External muscular augmentation (one of those suits that is mimics to your movements and helps do the work) would be very interesting, and if they could develop sensory implants to increase your visual range (imagine seeing a flower in the ultraviolet spectrum the way a honey bee does) and auditory ability, I might be there. Linking to a computer and controlling it with my mind, that would be very interesting, but I'd definitely make sure it was a non-internet equipped machine.
I don't see the need. In today's society, everything has to be done faster, faster, faster. Is pulling a credit card from your wallet, getting it read, then returning it to the wallet REALLY that wasteful timewise??
To play devil advocate: Credit card can be lost and stolen.
Originally posted by: starkiller
Besides, if you had a chip in your hand/arm...you escalate the violence necessary for identity theft.
In the past, you might get your purse snatched. Now, they have to cut off your hand/arm.
Besides, if you had a chip in your hand/arm...you escalate the violence necessary for identity theft.
In the past, you might get your purse snatched. Now, they have to cut off your hand/arm.
again To play devil advocate: true, it would be more violent, but much more difficult to do, especially without getting caught. Also there many thieves who have no problem with stealing identies and purses, but would have a problen cutting someone's arm off.
Originally posted by: starkiller
As for Warbler's comment about being 'borgafied'...depending on the application of other cybernetic technologies, I would not be opposed to taking advantage of them. as a couple examples, the idea of artery-cleaning nanotechnology is very much appealing. External muscular augmentation (one of those suits that is mimics to your movements and helps do the work) would be very interesting, and if they could develop sensory implants to increase your visual range (imagine seeing a flower in the ultraviolet spectrum the way a honey bee does) and auditory ability, I might be there. Linking to a computer and controlling it with my mind, that would be very interesting, but I'd definitely make sure it was a non-internet equipped machine.
If you wish to be assimilated, that is your choice, but it is not mine. True some of these things can help us, but just how far do we go? Until we are more machine than human?
I want to be a human, not a computer.
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HELL. NO.
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Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.
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Oh No! The world is ending!!!!!!!!!!!! run for your lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *runs and hides*
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Originally posted by: GundarkHunter
This reminds me of something in the Book of Revelations.
This reminds me of something in the Book of Revelations.
Precisely why I'll never get one. Once that line is crossed, there's no going back.
http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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Originally posted by: GundarkHunter
This reminds me of something in the Book of Revelations.
This reminds me of something in the Book of Revelations.
Exactly. Maybe they will implant it in the back of our right hand or forehead. No doubt it will leave a "mark" and we won't be able to buy or sell goods with out the "mark."
Come on! Lets hear it for the rapture! Woo!
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Originally posted by: Warbler
To play devil advocate: Credit card can be lost and stolen.
But a credit card can't cause bodily damage. I wonder what kind of medical guarantee you will get that the implant won't be misimplanted and suddenly break off and cause some irreparable damage to a vital organ or body function.
To be a devil's advocate of my own... if the chips become widespread, then the only means by which a thief can make any money will be via violent assault to remove the chip. If this becomes the case, they will become more violent. The ends will justify the means.
Originally posted by: Warbler
If you wish to be assimilated, that is your choice, but it is not mine. True some of these things can help us, but just how far do we go? Until we are more machine than human? I want to be a human, not a computer.
To play devil advocate: Credit card can be lost and stolen.
But a credit card can't cause bodily damage. I wonder what kind of medical guarantee you will get that the implant won't be misimplanted and suddenly break off and cause some irreparable damage to a vital organ or body function.
Originally posted by: Warbler
again To play devil advocate: true, it would be more violent, but much more difficult to do, especially without getting caught. Also there many thieves who have no problem with stealing identies and purses, but would have a problen cutting someone's arm off.
again To play devil advocate: true, it would be more violent, but much more difficult to do, especially without getting caught. Also there many thieves who have no problem with stealing identies and purses, but would have a problen cutting someone's arm off.
To be a devil's advocate of my own... if the chips become widespread, then the only means by which a thief can make any money will be via violent assault to remove the chip. If this becomes the case, they will become more violent. The ends will justify the means.
Originally posted by: Warbler
If you wish to be assimilated, that is your choice, but it is not mine. True some of these things can help us, but just how far do we go? Until we are more machine than human? I want to be a human, not a computer.
A-friggin-MEN! 'nuff said.
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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kapgar.com
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To play devil advocate: Credit card can be lost and stolen. Yes, and from personal experience I can tell you is quite easy to get a replacement card.
First, the idea of a collective mind I do not like one bit. But the idea of improving myself to be better than I am now would be nice.
I want to be a human, not a computer.
I could get really technical and say that by the definition, you are a computer...something that computes.again To play devil advocate: true, it would be more violent, but much more difficult to do, especially without getting caught. Also there many thieves who have no problem with stealing identies and purses, but would have a problen cutting someone's arm off. I heard a story several months ago about a man in Taiwan or Singapore (Southeast Asia somewhere) who was murdered then had his hand removed so theives could use it to fool a fingerprint analysis system at his work.
Old saying: Desperate times call for desperate measures. To anyone looking for money for a drug fix, it will be desperate times.
If you wish to be assimilated, that is your choice, but it is not mine. True some of these things can help us, but just how far do we go? Until we are more machine than human?
Whoa...I didn't say assimilated. Augmenting one's body with inorganic parts to help it better function is completely different from something like borg assimilation.Old saying: Desperate times call for desperate measures. To anyone looking for money for a drug fix, it will be desperate times.
If you wish to be assimilated, that is your choice, but it is not mine. True some of these things can help us, but just how far do we go? Until we are more machine than human?
First, the idea of a collective mind I do not like one bit. But the idea of improving myself to be better than I am now would be nice.
I want to be a human, not a computer.
The brain is a computer...we just haven't figured out everything about how its hardware works, and we know nothing of its software.
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Originally posted by: Bossk
But a credit card can't cause bodily damage. I wonder what kind of medical guarantee you will get that the implant won't be misimplanted and suddenly break off and cause some irreparable damage to a vital organ or body function.
You'd have to ask the medical experts and the people who invented the chip, and the people who will be implanting the chip. One thing is pretty much clear: The more experience they get at implanting the chip, the more safer the operation becomes. This is true of any medical procedure.
I just don't want this to become a thing where we slowly over time add more and more parts and then take the next and we modify the brain and then we become Borg. Where does it end? At what percentage borg do we stop at? Also do we want look like robots or humans?
Originally posted by: starkiller
I could get really technical and say that by the definition, you are a computer...something that computes.
The brain is a computer...we just haven't figured out everything about how its hardware works, and we know nothing of its software.
But a credit card can't cause bodily damage. I wonder what kind of medical guarantee you will get that the implant won't be misimplanted and suddenly break off and cause some irreparable damage to a vital organ or body function.
You'd have to ask the medical experts and the people who invented the chip, and the people who will be implanting the chip. One thing is pretty much clear: The more experience they get at implanting the chip, the more safer the operation becomes. This is true of any medical procedure.
Originally posted by: Bossk
To be a devil's advocate of my own... if the chips become widespread, then the only means by which a thief can make any money will be via violent assault to remove the chip. If this becomes the case, they will become more violent. The ends will justify the means.
I guess I was hopping that once the thief realized that he couldn't make any money without becoming a violent thief, he would give up his life of crime earn money legally. A bit nieve on my part. Still that fact that he would have to violently assualt someone, would make it much more difficult to to get away with the crime. That would stop some from trying. Also, some have the skills to be a credit card thieves but might not have the phyical skills it takes to commit a violent theft. That would stop some as well.
some irreparable damage to a vital organ or body function.
see the answer that I gave Bossk to a simular argument.
Originally posted by: starkiller
Whoa...I didn't say assimilated. Augmenting one's body with inorganic parts to help it better function is completely different from something like borg assimilation.
First, the idea of a collective mind I do not like one bit. But the idea of improving myself to be better than I am now would be nice.
To be a devil's advocate of my own... if the chips become widespread, then the only means by which a thief can make any money will be via violent assault to remove the chip. If this becomes the case, they will become more violent. The ends will justify the means.
I guess I was hopping that once the thief realized that he couldn't make any money without becoming a violent thief, he would give up his life of crime earn money legally. A bit nieve on my part. Still that fact that he would have to violently assualt someone, would make it much more difficult to to get away with the crime. That would stop some from trying. Also, some have the skills to be a credit card thieves but might not have the phyical skills it takes to commit a violent theft. That would stop some as well.
some irreparable damage to a vital organ or body function.
Originally posted by: starkiller
Yes, and from personal experience I can tell you is quite easy to get a replacement card.
but the chip would make it alot less likely that you'd have to get a replacement.
Originally posted by: starkiller
I heard a story several months ago about a man in Taiwan or Singapore (Southeast Asia somewhere) who was murdered then had his hand removed so theives could use it to fool a fingerprint analysis system at his work.
Old saying: Desperate times call for desperate measures. To anyone looking for money for a drug fix, it will be desperate times
Yes, and from personal experience I can tell you is quite easy to get a replacement card.
but the chip would make it alot less likely that you'd have to get a replacement.
Originally posted by: starkiller
I heard a story several months ago about a man in Taiwan or Singapore (Southeast Asia somewhere) who was murdered then had his hand removed so theives could use it to fool a fingerprint analysis system at his work.
Old saying: Desperate times call for desperate measures. To anyone looking for money for a drug fix, it will be desperate times
see the answer that I gave Bossk to a simular argument.
Originally posted by: starkiller
Whoa...I didn't say assimilated. Augmenting one's body with inorganic parts to help it better function is completely different from something like borg assimilation.
First, the idea of a collective mind I do not like one bit. But the idea of improving myself to be better than I am now would be nice.
I just don't want this to become a thing where we slowly over time add more and more parts and then take the next and we modify the brain and then we become Borg. Where does it end? At what percentage borg do we stop at? Also do we want look like robots or humans?
Originally posted by: starkiller
I could get really technical and say that by the definition, you are a computer...something that computes.
The brain is a computer...we just haven't figured out everything about how its hardware works, and we know nothing of its software.
bullbleep. I am not a computer. I can feel and create. A computer just runs programs. I can grow and learn, a computer can't. I was born, a computer is manufactured. My intellengence is real, not artificial. I am unque. Borg are not.
I choose to be Warber, not drone #555-555-555.
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They already have those suits that starkiller was talking about and they do not permanatly attach to the body.
Cybernetic appendages/enhancements can easily be used to aid people who are handicapped or lost limbs in war or other accidents. Would you then start calling those people borg and say they are 'assimilated'.
You're the one the one that brought up the whole thing about the borg and a collective conciousness. The issues at hand/raised by this 'technology' are from from having to worry about those 'being borgafied' brings up. the main issue is personal privacy. also the issues brought up here about increasing violent crimes for simple robbery.
as far as replacing credit cards and such. if someone steals your credit card (or you loose it) you call the company and they cancel it and give you a new one. if someone cuts off your arm to take your chip can you call up the company to get a new arm? and this is assuming its in an arm, what if its in the back of your neck, or some other location...you may not survive the theif taking it from you. I can guarentee that the company that does the implant, while they may give you a new chip free of charge (yeah right, most cases would probably require you to pay for it, or at least the surgery) i can guarentee they wont give you a new arm or life (if the theif killed you to take it).
as far as guarentees, yeah the more they do it the better they get at the procedure and the safer it becomes...does that mean you're gonna let them use you as a guinea pig? cause i know im not gonna (and neither does that senator seem to want to either)
we already add more 'parts' as you put it (glasses, contact lenses, artificial limbs). We already modify the brain (drugs, prescription and not, heck, even school and learning 'modify' your brain) guess we're already 1 foot in the door of 'Borgdom'
bullbleep. I am not a computer. I can feel and create. A computer just runs programs. I can grow and learn, a computer can't. I was born, a computer is manufactured. My intellengence is real, not artificial. I am unque. Borg are not.
that was almost a valid point, however its (almost) validity does not negate the validity in starkillers point. The human brain could techincally be called a computer (and im pretty sure it has been referred similarly by respected doctors/scientists)
as per dictionary.com a computer is
1) A device that computes, especially a programmable electronic machine that performs high-speed mathematical or logical operations or that assembles, stores, correlates, or otherwise processes information.
2) One who computes.
where does that say anything about growing and learning, or being born, or feeling, or creating. besides, what about learning computers, they can meet some of these requirements. also, who's to say your intellegence is any more real than a computers..you learn from experience, so do neural nets/learning comps.
however, all that aside, the last part of that statement is the best. "I am unique. Borg are not." Ok, Dr. Spock. Thanks for pulling the Borg reference out of no where again.
Sorry if i rambled some, but I am getting ready to leave work and wanted to respond to your post(s). I think I addressed most of your points, though my main grievance was the 'Borg' stuff. and just to be clear I dont mean this as a personal attack, I just dont think the borg is a pretty far leap for the topic JediSage brought up in the article.
-Darth Simon
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin
0100111001101001011011100110101001100001
*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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A computer just runs programs. I can grow and learn, a computer can't. I was born, a computer is manufactured. My intellengence is real, not artificial. I am unque. Borg are not.
Let's see if I can address each of these in turn:A computer just runs programs.Yes, it performs tasks based on software instructions given to it.
You drive, correct Warbler? You were given instruction in how to use an automobile. You were instructed in how to do your job.
You perform tasks that you were instructed to do just like any computer is. The difference is that you (or any human) can make a mistake. Computers, when left to themselves, do not make a mistake unless there was a mistake in their programming to begin with.
(Old expression: Garbage in, garbage out.)
I can grow and learn, a computer can't.A computer can have its hardware upgraded, which could be comparable to growth.
Learning is more difficult...but computers can, if programmed the right way, learn. You use Office? Perhaps Office XP? Custom menus are, in a way, the computer learning what functions you use most and removing the one's you don't.
Computers can also grow old, requiring replacement parts.
I was born, a computer was manufactured.Well, I can't disagree with you there.
My intelligence is real, not artificial.Well, by any definition I'm aware of, it would be impossible to give a computer "real intelligence". This seems irrelevant.
I am unique. Borg are not.I'm not sure if I can argue that (the Borg part I mean). Part of me wants to say that individual drones of the Borg are unique. They are equipped for different tasks, depending on the needs of the collective.
There is an episode of ST:TNG called The Measure of a ManI've always found it an interesting look into what defines intelligence, humanity, etc.
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Can anyone say, mark of the beast?
http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Originally posted by: theredbaron
Speaking of Devil's Advocates, are these guys trying to market themselves as the anti-Christ?!
Can anyone say, mark of the beast?
Speaking of Devil's Advocates, are these guys trying to market themselves as the anti-Christ?!
Can anyone say, mark of the beast?
i DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEM BUT i AM.