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70mm screening — Page 2

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So what's the status of the 1985 IP today in 2008?
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I doubt anyone's checked up on that since 1995. Its probably not in very good shape.
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The thing about Star Wars is that even though the prints are not in the best shape, there are a lot of surviving elements compared with other films at the time. I believe a lot of this is because Lucas was smart enough to save original audio tapes, uncomposited shots and props. But he didn't keep any prints of the original film in good condition. Makes sense.
If there's any truth to what Lucasfilm has said, it's that they don't have any good prints readily lying around that could be easily scanned. They would have to search the archives like they are doing for the deleted scenes and maybe use a combination of prints and interpositives. It may not have been possible to have started that in May 2006 and finished with enough time for a September release.
But it CAN be done.

Any idea on the Jabba scene. Was the new CGI pasted over the old CGI?

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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No, the GOUT they never even tried because they didn't want to do anything, they just used whatever transfer they already had available, which happened to be the 1993 DC, and if that hadn't been saved in a dusty bin in the LFL archives we'd not have gotten anything.
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I thought the 1985 IP was one of the sources "stripped for parts" in 96 to make the special edition? I hope I'm wrong.
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Baronlando said:

I thought the 1985 IP was one of the sources "stripped for parts" in 96 to make the special edition? I hope I'm wrong.


It might have been. I thought that the 1995 THX release was made from the 1985 IP though, or am I wrong about that? Somebody needs to do a guidebook about all these sources.

EDIT

I went and checked ILM: Into the Digital Realm, and it reports that the 1985 home video IP was the source of both the 1993 Laserdisk and the 1995 THX release. While it doesn't outright say it, it might imply that this might have been cannibalised, as it says that "the IP" was used in place of O-neg shots that were too damaged (and the 1985 IP is the only IP ever identified by the writer).
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Hmm. They don't physically mix positive in with negative, do they? So, couldn't they have created a new piece of negative off the 85 IP without cutting/damaging it? And if it looked good enough to mix in with camera negative back then and release into theaters without looking obviously different, it must have still looked pretty good, right?
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If no original prints are readily available, what about re-release prints? I'd be happy with the OOT, ANH in the title or not.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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I think the last prints were made of the original movies in 1994 as i have read 35mm to 16mm reduced prints for conventions, and the military etc.

There was one of star wars on ebay at one point but had the a new hope in the title.

My biggest gripe is not the new hope subtitle, it is what soundtrack would have been included on these releases.

The theatrical 1985 re-release of star wars was the digital mix by ben burrt.

I have never heard that the THX mixes created for the definitive collection were ever on any film prints. If i had to make a guess it would be the 1985 or the 1977 stereo mix that would have been on the final prints ever made.

As for the gout there can be little doubt that the video masters they digitized were many many generations removed even from first release prints whether original or re-release.

any modern day oot remaster would also have to take in the fact that the original effects were 2 or 3 generations removed from the physical photography on the o-neg since it was all optically composited.


This was a problem lowry ran into on the bond films. and unlike the 1997 special editions of star wars they did not have access to original elements because 1. they were lost in a vault someplace or 2. more likely had been destroyed just like the original star trek effects opticals were thrown out by paramount.

Unlike cbs digital however lowry did not recreate effects using cgi but tried to correct the mismatching footage in digital post after the negatives were scanned.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:


The theatrical 1985 re-release of star wars was the digital mix by ben burrt.


Was it really? I guess that makes sense. They were probably the first (and possibly only) prints to be struck from the 1985 IP that was made for home video as well.

I can't imagine why there would be prints made in 1994. How do you know they date from this time?
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The guy selling them on ebay said as much though he could have been lying.

16mm reduction prints in the 90's were fairly common at least i think for film conventions. comic book conventions and so on.

Many of them were rented out by film archives and i'm not sure more than a few ever made it into fans hands.

I have no contacts inside of lucasfilm and i am not aware if they rented out 16mm dupes off of the 35mm prints to conventions in the 90's.

Whether these were illegal or legal copies remains to be seen.

I only know of Derran Films prints that is probably what the 90's copies were.

Derran films were only 8mm as far as i know however so were the cineavision prints. so i am still baffled as to what 16mm prints being sold out there are.


I find it funny you can still rent copies of the documentaries on film but not the original cuts of the movies since lucasfilm does not want them to be seen.

speaking of I.P.'s of the original negatives. what i.p was used for the 70mm film cel collectibles for the original trilogy and why is not this a viable source for an anamorphic video transfer?

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I didn't think there was a theatrical re-release in 85? I know there was one for Jedi, but by then New Hope was a home video monster.
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Baronlando said:

I didn't think there was a theatrical re-release in 85? I know there was one for Jedi, but by then New Hope was a home video monster.


There was a limited triple-bill in 1985 of all three films. It was very small.

The 70mm collectable cells were just taken from a regular print, I believe it was a new print struck just for that, though I could be mistaken. If you've seen those frames, they are faded and the colors are all off. They definitely aren't irreparable, you'd be able to correct them pretty easily, but you can see even in 1995 (or whenever they were made) the original materials were not in good shape. They were probably taken from the master 70mm IP from 1977--I'm assuming there was only one 70mm IP ever made, I seriously doubt there was a need to make more than one (was the film ever even re-released in 70mm? I think it might have been for the '78 re-release, but they might have just re-circulated existing prints, and since the 70mm screenings were limited to begin with, the 70mm IP ought to have been in good shape).
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I have many of those 70mm cels, and I think I checked the date code on them once and if I remember correctly, the film dates from 1995 which is the year the cels were first sold (the SW ones were, anyhow. ESB and ROTJ were available later). I'll have to double-check those date-codes, though- it's been a while.

The color on them is good- the ROTJ ones maybe look a tad pinkish in the flesh tones (people who saw the triple-bill in 1985 have also said that the ROTJ print used then looked a bit pinkish) but they still look great compared to the pieces of film I have from a 1977 70mm SW print which is severely faded.

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The 70mm cell ROTJ is okay, but Empire is going a little and Star Wars has seen significant color shifting--the Death Star interiors are all green if you have any frames from that, and its pinkish in other places as well like in the desert, and the density looks a little weird in places too. 1995 or 1994 would seem appropriate for this print, as that is the year the started releasing these.