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4k77 - shot by shot color grading (a WIP) — Page 3

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DrDre said:

Deloreanhunter12 said:

I find it really funny that now all main color sources for tantive iv are all primary colors (Revenge of The Sith = Red, Special Edition 2011 Episode 4 = Blue, Dr. Dre 4k77 color grade = Green)

The current color grading is meant to approximate the look of a projected technicolor print, and thus has somewhat of a green cast as technicolor prints do.

However, I do believe there was an error, or mishap, and too much Green Cast is present in the current 4k77, if you look at the current discussion on the Other forum.

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dlvh said:

DrDre said:

Deloreanhunter12 said:

I find it really funny that now all main color sources for tantive iv are all primary colors (Revenge of The Sith = Red, Special Edition 2011 Episode 4 = Blue, Dr. Dre 4k77 color grade = Green)

The current color grading is meant to approximate the look of a projected technicolor print, and thus has somewhat of a green cast as technicolor prints do.

However, I do believe there was an error, or mishap, and too much Green Cast is present in the current 4k77, if you look at the current discussion on the Other forum.

I don’t believe there was an error or mishap.

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dlvh said:

DrDre said:

Deloreanhunter12 said:

I find it really funny that now all main color sources for tantive iv are all primary colors (Revenge of The Sith = Red, Special Edition 2011 Episode 4 = Blue, Dr. Dre 4k77 color grade = Green)

The current color grading is meant to approximate the look of a projected technicolor print, and thus has somewhat of a green cast as technicolor prints do.

However, I do believe there was an error, or mishap, and too much Green Cast is present in the current 4k77, if you look at the current discussion on the Other forum.

I haven’t been following the discussion on the current 4k77. I created LUTs for reels 1 and 2, but for some reason the first two reels are a lot more pink than they should be.

Current 4k77:

LUT colors:

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Interesting. So there is definitely not a mishap where it’s too green. Would appear slightly greener, if anything.

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towne32 said:

Interesting. So there is definitely not a mishap where it’s too green. Would appear slightly greener, if anything.

Indeed. The strangest shot I came across is this one, which has turned completely magenta:

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towne32 said:

Interesting. So there is definitely not a mishap where it’s too green. Would appear slightly greener, if anything.

Interesting indeed, that you don’t see a green and pink cast to this shot, and many others in Reel 1?

(https://i.imgur.com/sgELYFH.jpg)

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 (Edited)

I didn’t say that I don’t see that there is green. There is plenty of it in some shots. Just clarifying that the idea that it is an error or mishap is your own personal assessment, right? It read as if there might have been multiple people discussing/confirming the mishap on the other forum, but you meant that you also brought up the idea there?

As far as the pink goes, yes, Dre does seem to be suggesting that there is an error with how his LUTs were applied or rendered.

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towne32 said:

I didn’t say that I don’t see that there is green. There is plenty of it in some shots. Just clarifying that the idea that it is an error or mishap is your own personal assessment, right? It read as if there might have been multiple people discussing/confirming the mishap on the other forum, but you meant that you also brought up the idea there?

As far as the pink goes, yes, Dre does seem to be suggesting that there is an error with how his LUTs were applied or rendered.

I think that I may have been the first to write about the green cast on the other forum, yes. Rob stated that he may have “disabled the wrong layer and accidentally output the the wrong version…” I am not accusing Rob of anything, I just made him aware of the green cast, and now I myself see the pink in there as well. It looks like Dre’s new Lut here may have taken out the pink and perhaps the green as well?

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I wasn’t aware that the layer thing was to suggest a color problem with the non-DNR 4k77 that is in circulation. My mistake, if so!

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Well, the Tech print is going to have a green cast just because it’s a Tech print, and the 4K77 colors are meant to show what’s on the print, green cast and all.

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Wonderful stuff Dre. Although subtle, you’re 4K77 grade bests the Blu-ray regrade because of the way highlights and proper luma values are handled. Also, the R2 panels are a more natural blue/black in 4K77 whereas purple still lingers subtly in the Blu-ray regrade. Interesting comparisons, quality color:)

It doesn’t hurt to offer help, but it always hurts to disregard those that do.

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ChainsawAsh said:

Well, the Tech print is going to have a green cast just because it’s a Tech print, and the 4K77 colors are meant to show what’s on the print, green cast and all.

Yes, but it has more than just a ‘cast’ to it. Something went amiss, but it was caught:
Imgur

This is from NeverarGreat’s Tech V1:
Imgur

Anyway, it looks like Dre’s Lut fixes this. Dre, is there any chance you can show us this particular shot, using your new Lut?

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NeverarGreat’s version was not foolproof. Tech prints of Star Wars generally had a lot of green casting, especially in the dark areas IIRC. That shot may be an anomaly from that specific print, but even then, it would be generally accurate.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Dek Rollins said:

NeverarGreat’s version was not foolproof. Tech prints of Star Wars generally had a lot of green casting, especially in the dark areas IIRC. That shot may be an anomaly from that specific print, but even then, it would be generally accurate.

Oh no…I’m not saying that NeverarGreat’s is perfect, it may have its own “flaws”, but IIRC, it’s closer color and gamma-wise, to the theatrical version that I saw in the summer of '77, than the current ungraded 4k77. I however, had not see a Technicolor version until project 4k77, but find it suspect that it is cast with so much green, and believe that it was more of a mistake in rendering, than how it really should look. But I am thrilled that Dre can make it look so good with his Luts, if the rendering proves this to truly be how a Tech Print really does look.

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I remember that shot(among others) being very green, and in the first pass I made the Blu-ray match that green. However, after adopting the philosophy of making a consistent grade, these overly green shots stood out like a sore thumb so I corrected them so the skin tones were in line with other shots of this nature. There’s something definitely amiss with these completely green shots in the Tech.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

dlvh said:

Dek Rollins said:

NeverarGreat’s version was not foolproof. Tech prints of Star Wars generally had a lot of green casting, especially in the dark areas IIRC. That shot may be an anomaly from that specific print, but even then, it would be generally accurate.

Oh no…I’m not saying that NeverarGreat’s is perfect, it may have its own “flaws”, but IIRC, it’s closer color and gamma-wise, to the theatrical version that I saw in the summer of '77, than the current ungraded 4k77. I however, had not see a Technicolor version until project 4k77, but find it suspect that it is cast with so much green, and believe that it was more of a mistake in rendering, than how it really should look. But I am thrilled that Dre can make it look so good with his Luts, if the rendering proves this to truly be how a Tech Print really does look.

It might seem surprising, but some of the shots are apparently that green. It’s not how my ideal version would look, but that’s how it is. Whether or not there it’s perfect, a few shots such as this one were likely very, very (unreasonably) green on tech prints.

I think the main instance that we’ve discussed to death on this forum is the corridor shot with R2.

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It also bears repeating that 4K77 waa graded by reel, not by shot, so any differences from one shot to another within the same reel is exactly what is on the print itself. So if shot 10 of reel 1 looks perfect, but shot 32 of the same reel is extremely green, that’s just how it is on the print.

For more consistent colors, you’ll have to wait for shot-by-shot regrades of 4K77, which Dr. Dre and at least one other person are working on. But they’ll take a while.

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dlvh said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Well, the Tech print is going to have a green cast just because it’s a Tech print, and the 4K77 colors are meant to show what’s on the print, green cast and all.

Yes, but it has more than just a ‘cast’ to it. Something went amiss, but it was caught:
Imgur

This is from NeverarGreat’s Tech V1:
Imgur

Anyway, it looks like Dre’s Lut fixes this. Dre, is there any chance you can show us this particular shot, using your new Lut?

I think the green in this shot is specific to this print/scan as it doesn’t look green on the 1977 bootleg (which has somewhat of a yellow cast):

It also doesn’t show up on the 1997 SE scan by poita, while the Leia corridor is also green on that print:

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 (Edited)

The LUT I posted does very little to reduce the green for such scenes, sadly.

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[Dek Rollins said:]Tech prints of Star Wars generally had a lot of green casting, especially in the dark areas IIRC.

Can we be sure that it concerns Tech prints only and not Eastman prints before they fade too ?

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 (Edited)

Here’s what the color grading would look like without the technicolor green cast:

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DrDre said:

Here’s what the color grading would look like without the technicolor green cast:

And what’s your opinion on how it looks compared to your other Lut that doesn’t eliminate the green cast, Dre?

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I’m all for 4K77 versions that preserve the colors of the print, green cast and all … but man, I really want a version that looks like that, too. That’d probably be the only version I ever actually watched anymore.

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I don’t know, when you take the green out, to me it starts to look pretty red.

The green is actually flattering to the cinematography. It blends well with the other colors and creates an interesting look that totally works. I wouldn’t want it to be eliminated, just brought to a point that certain anomalous shots aren’t ludicrously swamped in it.

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DrDre said:

Here’s what the color grading would look like without the technicolor green cast:

Dre, that looks absolutely OUTSTANDING!! Fantastic subtle work! Absolutely love it, and 100% agree with ChainsawAsh: your color grade will be my go-to for watching SW!