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4k77 released — Page 4

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What’s the source for the Super 8 screen shot?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Ok no worries just that the skin tones grabbed me and I seen that shot posted so many times on here with so many red and pink cheeks but this is the first time I saw the Mitsubishi LD…

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GZK8000 said:

Williarob said:
A single correction was made for each reel. In most cases it involved nothing more than white balancing the image using the optical track for the white point and then adjusting the contrast so that the brightest point on the reel is right at the top of the scopes and the blackest right at the bottom. With a single adjustment like that, you can’t make space or the end credits completely black or you will crush the blacks in other parts of the reel.

Colors and levels could be greatly improved with a shot by shot grade, but I wanted to preserve the original colors and levels as much as possible for this version. So the colors quite accurately represent the digital scan of the print, which isn’t necessarily the same as when projected in a dark room with a 70s bulb, but nor is it anybody’s idealized imagination of what it should look like.

So if I understand what you say, wouldn’t this mean that if you screen 4K77 in a dark room with a 70s bulb you would have similar colors to what you see in the online screenshots of Technicolor screenings (assuming correct color balance)? Or does this mean that, even with 70s bulbs, people in 1977 did not see completely black space and end credits when they were screened a Technicolor print?

One thing to remember is that Star Wars was a rush-job, with budget problems and a lot of people working in the SFX crew that had never worked on a feature film before, and in some cases, doing things never attempted before.

So yes, if you were in a good cinema in 1977, and you were lucky enough to see a really good print, there still were many scenes where the inky blackness of space was a bit green, or a bit blue, or a bit grey, and the level of blackness varied considerably shot to shot.
Now, back in '77 you probably didn’t notice, because your mind was busy being blown by the visuals, but the optical shots really stand out, both in their heavier grain levels, and varying colour and sharpness. Not just the blacks either, the colours across the board vary a lot shot-to-shot on the original prints.

I just watched reel 1 of an IB in the same room as Reel 1 of the UHD version of 4K77. The colours are similar to the projected print in some places, and considerably different in others.
The grain looks completely different.
Part of the problem is projection vs rear-lighting an array of pixels. Projection has no ‘black lines’ around each pixel, so looks softer. It also has a lot more light scattering, so you tend to get a hard to describe luminous quality to the image, that tends to soften the perception of the grain.

Projecting 4K77 looks different to watching 4K77 on a television or monitor, let alone to watching it on film.

Short answer is, a project like this gets you a lot closer to seeing how the movie originally looked, before the home releases, you can see the colour variance, the varying levels and many of the flaws in the original way more clearly.

It isn’t really how it looked if sitting in a cinema, but it certainly does give you an insight into the less-slick experience that seeing a film in the 1970s was. Also, the Tech print has quite different colour to the non-tech prints.

If you want to really see how the film looked back then, you will need to grab a print, and a cinema and fill it with friends and project the film.
Short of that, feeding 4K77 to a home projector is as close as you will get right now.

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Can’t wait for Harmy to use this as a source for an upcoming Despecialized edition.

Who worked on this version? Was it a forum member?

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poita said:

One thing to remember is that Star Wars was a rush-job, with budget problems and a lot of people working in the SFX crew that had never worked on a feature film before, and in some cases, doing things never attempted before.

I don’t know if I would agree that it was “rushed”. GL made the decision to use a lot of really short special effects shots, matte paintings in particular, and made the creative decision to get a lot of mediocre quality matte paintings for short shorts where “no one will notice the bad quality” instead of ordering just a handful of really great quality matte paintings which is what every other film-maker would have done at the time. No one else would have ordered matte paintings to use for just one shot lasting up to 4 or 5 seconds. I’m sure the artists hated it, after all matte paintings are an artwork and good ones take quite a lot of time and effort to get right.

__Valeyard.net __Vimeo

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It appears that the UHD version is now up on Mega. 84gb in total. PM me if anyone wants it

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I’m just watching the 1080p version from myspleen right now and I absolutely love what I’ve seen so far.Great work guys!
But … is it really a non-DNVR version? I have noticed one weird shot - when the stormtroopers attack Tantive IV and are rushing through the whole in the door - it really looks like every trooper leaves a trail of himself while he moves, like that shot went through an extensive temporal denoising.

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Incredible work, congrats to all involved! The color is really something else.

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pittrek said:

I’m just watching the 1080p version from myspleen right now and I absolutely love what I’ve seen so far.Great work guys!
But … is it really a non-DNVR version? I have noticed one weird shot - when the stormtroopers attack Tantive IV and are rushing through the whole in the door - it really looks like every trooper leaves a trail of himself while he moves, like that shot went through an extensive temporal denoising.

screenshot?

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towne32 said:

pittrek said:

I’m just watching the 1080p version from myspleen right now and I absolutely love what I’ve seen so far.Great work guys!
But … is it really a non-DNVR version? I have noticed one weird shot - when the stormtroopers attack Tantive IV and are rushing through the whole in the door - it really looks like every trooper leaves a trail of himself while he moves, like that shot went through an extensive temporal denoising.

screenshot?

Sounds like a decoding error to me. Even going frame by frame I’m not seeing it. In any case, yes, I am 100% certain there was no temporal smoothing anywhere in this version. You’ll be able to see the difference (work in progress):

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/FBEMNNNU

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/KL6LNNNX

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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I reviewed that section myself, and while it’s unbelievably grainy I saw no evidence of ghosting. 😃

__Valeyard.net __Vimeo

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Funny, I’m at work right now so I can’t post any screenshots but there is a chance that it was caused by XBMC or my TV? Weird that it was doing that only in that one scene, but since I am the only person who reported it the problem is probably on my side. So thanks again for your hard work guys, it’s much better than the SSE and this comes from a person who LOVES the SSE 😃

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pittrek said:

Funny, I’m at work right now so I can’t post any screenshots but there is a chance that it was caused by XBMC or my TV? Weird that it was doing that only in that one scene, but since I am the only person who reported it the problem is probably on my side. So thanks again for your hard work guys, it’s much better than the SSE and this comes from a person who LOVES the SSE 😃

Your TV could be doing temporal processing if you have it playing at 120 fps, etc

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dahmage said:

pittrek said:

Funny, I’m at work right now so I can’t post any screenshots but there is a chance that it was caused by XBMC or my TV? Weird that it was doing that only in that one scene, but since I am the only person who reported it the problem is probably on my side. So thanks again for your hard work guys, it’s much better than the SSE and this comes from a person who LOVES the SSE 😃

Your TV could be doing temporal processing if you have it playing at 120 fps, etc

Yes. Always make sure kodi switches the refresh rate of your display.

That option is right next to one that conforms the media to the refresh rate. Make sure that isn’t pressed.

And if your program is still called Xbmc instead of kodi, update it. 😃

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b0bafett said:

dahmage said:

It’s going to be available on a.b.starwars and mega links at some point I would assume. Public torrents usually show up at some point as well.

Patience.

FYI, 4k77 1080p is being upped in a.b.starwars right now.

It appears that the 2160p is on its way up as well.

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towne32 said:

dahmage said:

pittrek said:

Funny, I’m at work right now so I can’t post any screenshots but there is a chance that it was caused by XBMC or my TV? Weird that it was doing that only in that one scene, but since I am the only person who reported it the problem is probably on my side. So thanks again for your hard work guys, it’s much better than the SSE and this comes from a person who LOVES the SSE 😃

Your TV could be doing temporal processing if you have it playing at 120 fps, etc

Yes. Always make sure kodi switches the refresh rate of your display.

That option is right next to one that conforms the media to the refresh rate. Make sure that isn’t pressed.

And if your program is still called Xbmc instead of kodi, update it. 😃

No, thanks. There is a reason why I am still using XBMC 😃 They broke the m3u video playlists, which I unfortunately need and I haven’t found an alternative (yet).

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poita said:

So yes, if you were in a good cinema in 1977, and you were lucky enough to see a really good print, there still were many scenes where the inky blackness of space was a bit green, or a bit blue, or a bit grey, and the level of blackness varied considerably shot to shot.
Now, back in '77 you probably didn’t notice, because your mind was busy being blown by the visuals, but the optical shots really stand out, both in their heavier grain levels, and varying colour and sharpness. Not just the blacks either, the colours across the board vary a lot shot-to-shot on the original prints.

Does this mean that Mike Verta’s color correction is revisionist, since in his restoration the blacks are really blacks, and that would not be representative of how Star Wars looked in theaters in 1977?

poita said:

[…]
If you want to really see how the film looked back then, you will need to grab a print, and a cinema and fill it with friends and project the film.
Short of that, feeding 4K77 to a home projector is as close as you will get right now.

That’s cool. I wonder if there could be a way to replicate a 70s bulb with some filter or something, or a way to tweak a home projector to emulate the 70s look. CRT shaders already exist and are used in the emulation scene, and they are pretty cool.

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GZK8000 said:

poita said:

So yes, if you were in a good cinema in 1977, and you were lucky enough to see a really good print, there still were many scenes where the inky blackness of space was a bit green, or a bit blue, or a bit grey, and the level of blackness varied considerably shot to shot.
Now, back in '77 you probably didn’t notice, because your mind was busy being blown by the visuals, but the optical shots really stand out, both in their heavier grain levels, and varying colour and sharpness. Not just the blacks either, the colours across the board vary a lot shot-to-shot on the original prints.

Does this mean that Mike Verta’s color correction is revisionist, since in his restoration the blacks are really blacks, and that would not be representative of how Star Wars looked in theaters in 1977?

I don’t believe anyone has seen Mike Verta’s final color grade.

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pittrek said:

towne32 said:

dahmage said:

pittrek said:

Funny, I’m at work right now so I can’t post any screenshots but there is a chance that it was caused by XBMC or my TV? Weird that it was doing that only in that one scene, but since I am the only person who reported it the problem is probably on my side. So thanks again for your hard work guys, it’s much better than the SSE and this comes from a person who LOVES the SSE 😃

Your TV could be doing temporal processing if you have it playing at 120 fps, etc

Yes. Always make sure kodi switches the refresh rate of your display.

That option is right next to one that conforms the media to the refresh rate. Make sure that isn’t pressed.

And if your program is still called Xbmc instead of kodi, update it. 😃

No, thanks. There is a reason why I am still using XBMC 😃 They broke the m3u video playlists, which I unfortunately need and I haven’t found an alternative (yet).

Well, in any case, use the change refresh rate option if it’s present in those old builds.

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GZK8000 said:
Does this mean that Mike Verta’s color correction is revisionist, since in his restoration the blacks are really blacks, and that would not be representative of how Star Wars looked in theaters in 1977?

What I’ve seen of MV’s work sure looks revisionist to me. Check out https://vimeo.com/123533858

At 3:30 or so, he says that “it never looked like this in theaters”.

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towne32 said:

I don’t believe anyone has seen Mike Verta’s final color grade.

Not the whole movie, but he released a few screenshots, and his Vimeo videos had a different color grading, even if it was WIP and weren’t in DCI-P3.

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MrPib said:

GZK8000 said:
Does this mean that Mike Verta’s color correction is revisionist, since in his restoration the blacks are really blacks, and that would not be representative of how Star Wars looked in theaters in 1977?

What I’ve seen of MV’s work sure looks revisionist to me. Check out https://vimeo.com/123533858

At 3:30 or so, he says that “it never looked like this in theaters”.

Ah, I remember at the time I liked a lot the grading used in that video and others, and I still like it even if it’s not representative of the theatrical experiences.

Here’s 4K77:
4K77 S-Foils in Attack Position

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So…is this more detailed or less detailed compared to other major preservations like the Neverar Technicolor version of the 2004/2011 SE? Is every frame that’s in the GOUT accounted for here?

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