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4k77 released — Page 17

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You_Too said:

Collipso said:
i thought this frame was from The SkyMaster Edition and not The Skywalker Edition?

What is the difference? I think I saw some clip on youtube once saying that the Skywalker Edition was gonna have chromatic aberration sorted out and all that, color channels aligned etc. That must take forever to do.

The Skywalker Edition is going to be ultracleaned and with the colors all sorted out, etc. that is indeed going to take years to complete.

The SkyMaster Edition is basically a quicker attempt at fixing most of the issues The Skywalker Edition is going to fix, so while its newest incarnation should be out in the next couple of weeks, it’s not going to be as good as the other, more complete Skywalker Edition. this one is called SkyMaster due to being done not only by SkyDude but also by Dreamaster.

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It’s also using the color corrections abandoned by Rob - which Dreamaster worked on - as a base, which I don’t believe the Skywalker Edition will.

Assuming I’m remembering right. I’m very tired.

a trolling bantha

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Williarob, at least your DNR’d version doesn’t cause the whole frame to warp when Luke jumps into his speeder, or have facial features move around peoples faces!

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I’d really love to see this. Has anyone been able to upload this to Mega by any chance?

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It’s on usenet now and you can use a free account to download it because it is such a recent posting. free accounts are slower but hey they’re free.

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Williarob said:
In the meantime, there is a spin off project called “The Skywalker Edition” that uses 4K77 as a jumping off point and may be closer to what you had in mind:

I’m gonna watch the preview and see what it looks like. The screenshot has nice details but is slightly too green and the whites are crushed. But I suspect this is a case of conversion between 16-235 and 0-255 that has caused it. It’s also more cropped, but that’s understandable if it’s based on more sources.

If I do the same kind of fix to that shot from 4K77, (Balance the white point but keep the mid balance and alter the gamma a bit) it comes out like this:

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You_Too said:

Williarob said:
In the meantime, there is a spin off project called “The Skywalker Edition” that uses 4K77 as a jumping off point and may be closer to what you had in mind:

I’m gonna watch the preview and see what it looks like. The screenshot has nice details but is slightly too green and the whites are crushed. But I suspect this is a case of conversion between 16-235 and 0-255 that has caused it. It’s also more cropped, but that’s understandable if it’s based on more sources.

If I do the same kind of fix to that shot from 4K77, (Balance the white point but keep the mid balance and alter the gamma a bit) it comes out like this:

Actually, I think a lot of detail is missing in that shot, and it’s overall too bright, and too yellow in my view. If I had to wager a guess, I would go with something like this:

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DrDre said:
something like this:

Can’t wait for your shot-by-shot of this. Hopefully for the DNR version as well as the initial release.

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DrDre said:

You_Too said:

Williarob said:
In the meantime, there is a spin off project called “The Skywalker Edition” that uses 4K77 as a jumping off point and may be closer to what you had in mind:

I’m gonna watch the preview and see what it looks like. The screenshot has nice details but is slightly too green and the whites are crushed. But I suspect this is a case of conversion between 16-235 and 0-255 that has caused it. It’s also more cropped, but that’s understandable if it’s based on more sources.

If I do the same kind of fix to that shot from 4K77, (Balance the white point but keep the mid balance and alter the gamma a bit) it comes out like this:

Actually, I think a lot of detail is missing in that shot, and it’s overall too bright, and too yellow in my view. If I had to wager a guess, I would go with something like this:

Yeah the punchy yellow/green desert is too much. I like this toned down look

It doesn’t hurt to offer help, but it always hurts to disregard those that do.

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DrDre said:
Actually, I think a lot of detail is missing in that shot, and it’s overall too bright, and too yellow in my view. If I had to wager a guess, I would go with something like this:

No detail missing in my version since I didn’t crush the whites or blacks. Your version is closer to what it looked like when it was shot, my correction examples are aimed on keeping the theatrical color timing. What I meant was that the SkyMaster edition isn’t keeping the mid balance of the Tech print thus creating a different color. I’ve often found that by leaving the midpoint alone and only adjusting white and black points and gamma curve, you can often get the “correct” theatrical look of each shot if you’d want to.

Anyway, I found lots of errors with the SkyMaster preview. It had crushed whites, it wasn’t a screenshot error. The DNR overall looks superior to the official DNR version, but it handles dark scenes badly. (The official DNR version looks great too of course, except for the automatic color balance in each shot but that’s my opinion since I love the theatrical look and I’m so much into colors) There are lots of artifacts in the dark scenes in the SkyMaster preview. Note that these are errors with the DNR filter, not criticizm from me! 😃 Pointing them out might help?
Some examples, SkyMaster with 4K77 on mouseover: (Couldn’t upload all in a single post for some reason)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120755 (the right guard’s glove)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120756 (the stuff flying off the table and highlights on the wall pipes)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120757 (Obi-wan’s saber hilt on the right side of the picture)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120758 (Details in Obi-wan’s face, reflections in his eyes, some weird thing on the right side of him)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120759 (The opening between the two people in the back on the right side)

I also think it looks kinda strange to basically use a blanket tint in the scene where they talk to Han. It removes almost all the color from the picture.
Here are a couple comparisons with SkyMaster vs my own color corrections. (Once again leaving the midpoint to keep the theatrical color and just balancing the rest)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120760
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120761
Notice how the blanket tint in SkyMaster removes most of the difference between the lip and skin color, the eye color and so on. Of course, this is my opinion and not trying to bash this version. If this is the look they want, it’s their choice. 😃

Here’s those two shots from 4K77 compared to my corrections, to give an idea of what it could all look like if someone ever did a proper shot by shot correction. (Which would of course take a horrible amount of work. I still think the 4K77 looks amazing as it is!) I used the 1080p version for my corrections since it’s the only version I have, so if you see any compression artifacts it’s just because the source isn’t lossless. Whites and blacks were balanced while keeping the mid balance and altering the gamma curve.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120762
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120764

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You_Too said:

DrDre said:
Actually, I think a lot of detail is missing in that shot, and it’s overall too bright, and too yellow in my view. If I had to wager a guess, I would go with something like this:

No detail missing in my version since I didn’t crush the whites or blacks. Your version is closer to what it looked like when it was shot, my correction examples are aimed on keeping the theatrical color timing. What I meant was that the SkyMaster edition isn’t keeping the mid balance of the Tech print thus creating a different color. I’ve often found that by leaving the midpoint alone and only adjusting white and black points and gamma curve, you can often get the “correct” theatrical look of each shot if you’d want to.

Anyway, I found lots of errors with the SkyMaster preview. It had crushed whites, it wasn’t a screenshot error. The DNR overall looks superior to the official DNR version, but it handles dark scenes badly. (The official DNR version looks great too of course, except for the automatic color balance in each shot but that’s my opinion since I love the theatrical look and I’m so much into colors) There are lots of artifacts in the dark scenes in the SkyMaster preview. Note that these are errors with the DNR filter, not criticizm from me! 😃 Pointing them out might help?
Some examples, SkyMaster with 4K77 on mouseover: (Couldn’t upload all in a single post for some reason)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120755 (the right guard’s glove)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120756 (the stuff flying off the table and highlights on the wall pipes)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120757 (Obi-wan’s saber hilt on the right side of the picture)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120758 (Details in Obi-wan’s face, reflections in his eyes, some weird thing on the right side of him)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120759 (The opening between the two people in the back on the right side)

I also think it looks kinda strange to basically use a blanket tint in the scene where they talk to Han. It removes almost all the color from the picture.
Here are a couple comparisons with SkyMaster vs my own color corrections. (Once again leaving the midpoint to keep the theatrical color and just balancing the rest)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120760
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120761
Notice how the blanket tint in SkyMaster removes most of the difference between the lip and skin color, the eye color and so on. Of course, this is my opinion and not trying to bash this version. If this is the look they want, it’s their choice. 😃

Here’s those two shots from 4K77 compared to my corrections, to give an idea of what it could all look like if someone ever did a proper shot by shot correction. (Which would of course take a horrible amount of work. I still think the 4K77 looks amazing as it is!) I used the 1080p version for my corrections since it’s the only version I have, so if you see any compression artifacts it’s just because the source isn’t lossless. Whites and blacks were balanced while keeping the mid balance and altering the gamma curve.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120762
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120764

I’ve checked the technicolor print frames I have for this shot, and it’s really not this yellow. There’s a bit more than in mine, but not much:

The scan itself is not a very reliable color reference, and the colors of the raw scan are actually less yellow than my first attempt, which was based on my color corrections for reel 2, and are slightly more balanced than the technicolor print reference frames I have, that have somewhat of a green cast. So, I would say my first attempt at correcting the shot is pretty close to the theatrical color timing minus the technicolor green cast.

Ps. What I meant with missing detail, is that the gamma settings in your version seems to obscure a lot of detail in the sand giving the image an overexposed look in my view. I also feel there’s a tendency to overcompensate for the deficiencies of the bluray, resulting in an overly bright image:

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DrDre said:
The scan itself is not a very reliable color reference

You’re right. After digging into it, the 4K77 isn’t perfectly matched to the reference some of us had access to long ago. Either way, I made my shot that bright to match it to the frame from SkyMaster edition so they could be compared. The hue, however was left untouched after balancing the white and black points while leaving the mid balance as it was. When I looked at a piece of reference material and changed the gamma curve to look more like it, my hue wasn’t very far off from the reference. And knowing the reference had the pink tint unfixed and not balanced black and white points, my shot still came out pretty much correct in colors, just way too bright in the comparison with SkyMaster.

Here’s a comparison of a cropped version of a reference shot and my version, only gamma changed to match it, still same hue as in the one I posted above:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120775

A quote from the source of this reference shot, where it’s confirmed it’s how it looked like when projected. Not gonna post the full quote for reasons that are obvious to some of us “oldies”. 😃

Someone said:
then that’s as good a reference as any for what it “should look like,” which is really “how it was projected.”

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You_Too said:
Here’s those two shots from 4K77 compared to my corrections, to give an idea of what it could all look like if someone ever did a proper shot by shot correction. (Which would of course take a horrible amount of work. I still think the 4K77 looks amazing as it is!) I used the 1080p version for my corrections since it’s the only version I have, so if you see any compression artifacts it’s just because the source isn’t lossless. Whites and blacks were balanced while keeping the mid balance and altering the gamma curve.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120762
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/120764

I’m actually working on a shot by shot correction, where the aim is to approach the theatrical color grading but without the color casts and inconcistencies introduced by the technicolor printing process. Here’s another example of where I would put a preliminary color grading for the two cantina shots based on the references I have:

Skymaster:

Your corrections:

My corrections:

For comparison are those shots for the bluray:

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Your corrections are really nice too!
I hadn’t looked at the reference before altering the bar scene shots, the colors are hues are pretty much correct but I chose the gamma curve based on preference. Remember, I’ve watched 4K77 a lot so I’m a bit biased when it comes to Star Wars with strong colors and tints. 😃

When looking at the reference for the bar scene, it should apparently look even darker when projected. A bit too dark for my taste but this is very close to how the shot of Obi-wan and Luke looks in the reference, except I balanced the black and white levels around the mids which makes it look cleaner:

I’m pretty sure I would’ve gone with something brighter if I “corrected” it.

As for the wide shot of the stormtroopers and “the gang” in the speeder, (I’ve always loved this shot for some reason) this is almost exactly what it looks like in the reference:

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The cantina is supposed to be a dark and dingy dive so the darker look definitely makes sense. Dre, I love your colours but your correction perhaps makes it look a little too bright and cheerful. 😃

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Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
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Turisu said:

The cantina is supposed to be a dark and dingy dive so the darker look definitely makes sense. Dre, I love your colours but your correction perhaps makes it look a little too bright and cheerful. 😃

I agree:

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Where are these dreamaster/skymaster versions discussed?

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You_Too said:

As for the wide shot of the stormtroopers and “the gang” in the speeder, (I’ve always loved this shot for some reason) this is almost exactly what it looks like in the reference:

DrDre said:

benduwan said:

DrDre said:

Here’s another quick correction:

to pink

Yeah, it could use a little more work:

I like both of these in their own way. Definitely some different hues and curves in respective areas, Dre’s highlights might be pushed a little high without also adjusting the lower end. Evident on the middle Stormtrooper and wall corner. Just a thought
Also some unappealing pink in the armor

It doesn’t hurt to offer help, but it always hurts to disregard those that do.

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Anyway, I gotta admit I haven’t checked the other threads so maybe there’s a better place if we should keep discussing color correction? I don’t wanna get too off topic. 😃
On the other hand, it’s really nice that all of the colors are preserved so well in 4K77 that we can even create corrections based on the reference using the 1080p version which is “compressed” both in color space and resolution.