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4K83 Released — Page 7

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The print audio has the correct frequency balance for the soundtrack since it has been recorded through a Dolby A decoder. Most of the laserdisc versions are extremely bright and are too shrill in comparison. However, the print audio is less dynamic than any of the laserdiscs, since stereo optical on 35mm film has very little headroom.

Soundtracks made with Dolby A noise reduction (which includes all the mixes for the Star Wars films except the mono versions) sound much too bright in their undecoded state. It is apparent that none of the early laserdiscs have been Dolby A decoded, hence their excessive high frequency emphasis. The RotJ soundtrack from the Special Widescreen Edition does have the correct frequency balance, so it is likely that it has been Dolby A decoded.

The best possible version of the 35mm stereo mix can be produced by using the early US laserdisc (since it has the most dynamic range) and adjusting its EQ to match the print/SWE versions. That way you get the best of both worlds; the greater dynamics and the correct frequency balance. This is exactly what I did for the 35mm soundtrack on Despecialized v2.5, but I haven’t yet put out one like this that is synced to 4K83.

I will release a track like that at some point soon, but for the moment, I would recommend using the SWE version, because it sounds extremely similar to the print audio, but with better quality.

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“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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Here’s what the opening shots on Tatooine look like for Return of the Pug, which has an appealing warm color pallette:

Here’s how that would translate to a color grading for 4k83:

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hairy_hen said:

The print audio has the correct frequency balance for the soundtrack since it has been recorded through a Dolby A decoder. Most of the laserdisc versions are extremely bright and are too shrill in comparison. However, the print audio is less dynamic than any of the laserdiscs, since stereo optical on 35mm film has very little headroom.

Soundtracks made with Dolby A noise reduction (which includes all the mixes for the Star Wars films except the mono versions) sound much too bright in their undecoded state. It is apparent that none of the early laserdiscs have been Dolby A decoded, hence their excessive high frequency emphasis. The RotJ soundtrack from the Special Widescreen Edition does have the correct frequency balance, so it is likely that it has been Dolby A decoded.

The best possible version of the 35mm stereo mix can be produced by using the early US laserdisc (since it has the most dynamic range) and adjusting its EQ to match the print/SWE versions. That way you get the best of both worlds; the greater dynamics and the correct frequency balance. This is exactly what I did for the 35mm soundtrack on Despecialized v2.5, but I haven’t yet put out one like this that is synced to 4K83.

I will release a track like that at some point soon, but for the moment, I would recommend using the SWE version, because it sounds extremely similar to the print audio, but with better quality.

Do any of the SW '77 stereo mix laserdisc audio tracks have the correct Dolby A-decoded frequency balance as far as you know, or do they all sound similarly over-bright? (As in, any of the pre-JSC remix audio tracks.)

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

hairy_hen said:

The print audio has the correct frequency balance for the soundtrack since it has been recorded through a Dolby A decoder. Most of the laserdisc versions are extremely bright and are too shrill in comparison. However, the print audio is less dynamic than any of the laserdiscs, since stereo optical on 35mm film has very little headroom.

Soundtracks made with Dolby A noise reduction (which includes all the mixes for the Star Wars films except the mono versions) sound much too bright in their undecoded state. It is apparent that none of the early laserdiscs have been Dolby A decoded, hence their excessive high frequency emphasis. The RotJ soundtrack from the Special Widescreen Edition does have the correct frequency balance, so it is likely that it has been Dolby A decoded.

The best possible version of the 35mm stereo mix can be produced by using the early US laserdisc (since it has the most dynamic range) and adjusting its EQ to match the print/SWE versions. That way you get the best of both worlds; the greater dynamics and the correct frequency balance. This is exactly what I did for the 35mm soundtrack on Despecialized v2.5, but I haven’t yet put out one like this that is synced to 4K83.

I will release a track like that at some point soon, but for the moment, I would recommend using the SWE version, because it sounds extremely similar to the print audio, but with better quality.

Do any of the SW '77 stereo mix laserdisc audio tracks have the correct Dolby A-decoded frequency balance as far as you know, or do they all sound similarly over-bright? (As in, any of the pre-JSC remix audio tracks.)

There is only one digital source (technically two) for the '77 stereo mix, the 1986 Japanese Pan & Scan LD release with catalogue number SF098-1103 (as well as the re-release from 1991 with #PILF-1236). I speculated back in August that it may not have had Dolby A decoding applied and worked with a software engineer that I met through the stevehoffman.tv forum to decode it properly using a proprietary Dolby A decoder he was developing. The results were shared over at tswt forums, and my opinion is that it did not exactly work. Overall it was a bit too muffled-sounding. To me the original version was preferable.

My results indicate that it’s probably not as simple as saying that the LD’s are missing Dolby A decoding. While it may be true, there are other possibilities. These mixes were digitized at a time before a DAW would allow for easy manipulation of the audio track, as such, the harshness may be due to the more rudimentary ADC’s being used at the time and a limited ability to deal with tape noise effectively (and SW seems to have a lot of tape noise), or simply the EQ preference of the person doing the transfer. Even if Dolby A decoding is indeed missing, it’s possible (likely?) that the audio was eq’ed to make it more pleasing to the ear. Any sort of eq manipulation would make subsequent Dolby A decoding nearly impossible to perfect.

I was asked by SkyDude to do an improved version of of the 1977 audio for his SkyMaster edition, and I was able to achieve much better results by simply correcting the eq and using spectral noise reduction. I haven’t shared that version, as I was going to let that debut when SkyMaster is released.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

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DrDre said:

Here’s what the opening shots on Tatooine look like for Return of the Pug, which has an appealing warm color pallette:

Here’s how that would translate to a color grading for 4k83:

Beautiful, DrDre!

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hairy_hen said:
The best possible version of the 35mm stereo mix can be produced by using the early US laserdisc (since it has the most dynamic range) and adjusting its EQ to match the print/SWE versions. That way you get the best of both worlds; the greater dynamics and the correct frequency balance. This is exactly what I did for the 35mm soundtrack on Despecialized v2.5, but I haven’t yet put out one like this that is synced to 4K83.

You might know this already but it can be done almost automatically in Izotope RX with the “EQ match”. Not sure how accurate the result is though since I don’t have an expensive audio setup to compare it with, but I know that piece of software is amazing.

hairy_hen said:
I will release a track like that at some point soon, but for the moment, I would recommend using the SWE version, because it sounds extremely similar to the print audio, but with better quality.

I’m not sure if the SWE version was included in the myspleen release (is it the 1993 LD audio?) but I think I’m just gonna settle with the optical for now, it sounds great!

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It’s true that Dolby A decoding may not be the whole issue, or only part of it. Primitive A/D conversion could have altered the sound of the top end, and EQ adjustment could have been done to make it sound better on small tv speakers.

For Jedi at least, and I believe for Empire too, restoring the frequency balance of the early LD’s to match print audio can be done with a single shelf filter. A 10 dB reduction at 10 kHz gets it remarkably close, so it may be that this is all that was done to them.

For the first movie, it seems to be more complicated than that. Dolby A decoding is rather finicky, requiring the signal to be input at just the right level – a calibration tone on the tape at 0 VU indicates what level is needed. If the level is set incorrectly, the decoder will either remove too much top end, or not enough, and it may also produce other artifacts since the decoding is a dynamic process that varies by how loud the input is. Fluttering distortion in the low frequencies seems to be the most obvious problem that can result. Such distortion can be heard at times in the print audio, so even properly decoded audio apparently isn’t completely immune to it. Obviously the laserdiscs do not have a calibration tone included, and so it is quite difficult to say how much level adjustment would even be needed to decode them. For that reason, EQ is going to give better results overall (along with digital noise reduction if needed), as schorman said.

@You_Too: Most of the EQ that I’ve done for these projects has used iZotope’s matching function as a starting point, with subsequent adjustment as needed. It really is a fantastic tool for this kind of thing! For music projects I love my Universal Audio stuff, but for Star Wars, iZotope is pretty much essential.

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You_Too said:

I’m not sure if the SWE version was included in the myspleen release (is it the 1993 LD audio?) but I think I’m just gonna settle with the optical for now, it sounds great!

The SWE is the Special Widescreen Edition laserdisc (the set - along with the Japanese Special Collection - that had the 1985 remix for ANH). It’s still the 1983 theatrical stereo (the same mix as the optical audio from the print that’s track 1 in 4K83).

Schorman says the best-sounding LD of the 1983 mix is the earlier US pan-and-scan LD, while hairy_hen is recommending the US Special Widescreen Edition LD for the same mix - neither is included in 4K83’s MKV or ISO releases, but Schorman has made 4K83 synced versions of these tracks (along with the Japanese pan-and-scan and Japanese Special Collection versions) available over on the 4K## forums.

The 1993 LD audio is a remix and not the 1983 theatrical stereo, which is why it’s also included in 4K83. ESB and ROTJ didn’t get remixes for the JSC/SWE like ANH did, but they did 1993 (and ANH got another remix).

a trolling bantha

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Hey everyone, I was trying to get a hold of this, Project 4K77 as well as an ESB preservation similar to these if one exists, since poita’s and 4K80 are still in the works. I may just go with Harmy’s 2.7, but if someone could PM some help/advice regarding these projects, I would really appreciate it.

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ChainsawAsh said:

You_Too said:

I’m not sure if the SWE version was included in the myspleen release (is it the 1993 LD audio?) but I think I’m just gonna settle with the optical for now, it sounds great!

The SWE is the Special Widescreen Edition laserdisc (the set - along with the Japanese Special Collection - that had the 1985 remix for ANH). It’s still the 1983 theatrical stereo (the same mix as the optical audio from the print that’s track 1 in 4K83).

Schorman says the best-sounding LD of the 1983 mix is the earlier US pan-and-scan LD, while hairy_hen is recommending the US Special Widescreen Edition LD for the same mix - neither is included in 4K83’s MKV or ISO releases, but Schorman has made 4K83 synced versions of these tracks (along with the Japanese pan-and-scan and Japanese Special Collection versions) available over on the 4K## forums.

The 1993 LD audio is a remix and not the 1983 theatrical stereo, which is why it’s also included in 4K83. ESB and ROTJ didn’t get remixes for the JSC/SWE like ANH did, but they did 1993 (and ANH got another remix).

Schorman’s recommendation for the “Best” '83 laserdisc audio is track 4 on the ISO. (It is not on the MKV, but is included in the Alternate Audio folder with the MKV).

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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Here’s a little test run for a possible future shot by shot color grading for 4k83 using the bluray as the source, and Return of the Pug as a color reference. I wish I had more time on my hands:

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I’m color grading about 15-20 shots of ROTJ as a sort of teaser for a future shot by shot regrade of 4k83, and to display what a good source of reference Return of the Pug can be for those that are interested in having a go at it sooner. Here are the first eight. More will follow…

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DrDre said:

I’m color grading about 15-20 shots of ROTJ as a sort of teaser for a future shot by shot regrade of 4k83, and to display what a good source of reference Return of the Pug can be for those that are interested in having a go at it sooner. Here are the first eight. More will follow…

Awesome!

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Here’s the finalized set of preview frames for what will hopefully become a full fledged shot by shot color grading of 4k83 once the shot by shot color grading of 4k77 is finished:

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I’ve found a few sources for 4k83, but none of them have “From SW to Jedi” or “Classic Creatures”. Were those released separately? Anyone have names to look for or point me in the right direction for those? All I’m finding are crappy vhs rips.

Thanks!

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They’re separate. I think on MySpleen they’re listed as “4K83 Bonus Features.” Don’t know if they’ve been uploaded anywhere else yet.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

They’re separate. I think on MySpleen they’re listed as “4K83 Bonus Features.” Don’t know if they’ve been uploaded anywhere else yet.

Thanks.

I don’t suppose I can get a myspleen invite?

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Nope, the site has been closed entirely for some time and there’s no indication of if and when it’ll open up again.

a trolling bantha