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4K?

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Ok, I'm thinking of getting a 4K/UHD television. However, I have a number of questions. I've done some research online, and while there's plenty of information, there also seems to be some disinformation. Anyway, here we go.

Who here as seen normal content in 4K on a 4K television or screen (say less than 80")? By normal I mean something presented at 4K resolution that's not specifically designed as a tech demo. How does it look, and what are your thoughts?

What about availability of media. As of, say, today's date, what types of media can be used to deliver 4K? Is it all streaming? I have a somewhat crappy internet connection, so would this make viewing something in 4K impossible? Also, are blu-ray discs labeled as "Mastered in 4K" which state they made especially for 4K displays. Is this true or just a bogus marketing ploy?

Upscaling. When upscaled, do other sources look better? If so, by how much?

Finally, is 4K home viewing the future? Or is it a niche market where 1080p will be the standard for the forseeable future?

40,000 million notches away
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You came to off topic and you're concerned about disinformation?  Lol.

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 (Edited)

There is no official disk based media for 4k yet. The "mastered in 4k" refers to how they were scanned; they are 1080p disks. I  think Netflix offers a tiny bit of content in 4k, but there is no way you can get that on a"somewhat crappy internet connection."

Just don't get a 4k TV.

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timdiggerm said:

Is this thread official?

 Is it labeled official?

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 (Edited)

I guess if the other 4k thread is labeled "official" when it's clearly not, then this one must be.

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I started the thread here because I'm curious about the format, not to join the convo in the "official" 4K thread about whether the GOUT is shitty, kinda shitty, diarrhea-with-carrots shitty, ect. I just wanted some information, and if a discussion actually started, then so be it.

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ElectricTriangle said:

There is no official disk based media for 4k yet. The "mastered in 4k" refers to how they were scanned; they are 1080p disks. I  think Netflix offers a tiny bit of content in 4k, but there is no way you can get that on a"somewhat crappy internet connection."

Just don't get a 4k TV.

 well what is the difference between a blu ray that is "mastered in 4k" and on that isn't?  There many blu-rays in which the movie was transfered to 4k or originally filmed in 4k like the last 2 episodes of the PT and put on blu ray that aren't labeled "mastered in 4k.  What's the difference?


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Warbler said:

There many blu-rays in which the movie was transfered to 4k or originally filmed in 4k like the last 2 episodes of the PT and put on blu ray that aren't labeled "mastered in 4k.

 AOTC and ROTS were shot in 1080p.

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huh, I could have sworn they shot in 4k.  Oh well, I guess I was mistaken.


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Warbler said:

ElectricTriangle said:

There is no official disk based media for 4k yet. The "mastered in 4k" refers to how they were scanned; they are 1080p disks. I  think Netflix offers a tiny bit of content in 4k, but there is no way you can get that on a"somewhat crappy internet connection."

Just don't get a 4k TV.

 well what is the difference between a blu ray that is "mastered in 4k" and on that isn't?  There many blu-rays in which the movie was transfered to 4k or originally filmed in 4k like the last 2 episodes of the PT and put on blu ray that aren't labeled "mastered in 4k.  What's the difference?

 Exactly my question. For instance, Battle: Los Angeles (which is a relatively new movie) was, I'm guessing, shot in 4K, has a regular blu-ray, and a new edition seemingly specifically marketed for 4K televisions.

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The "mastered in 4k" blurays are just a marketing thing. They are NOT actually 4k resolution. They are 1080p just like any other bluray. The 4k tag is specifically referring to the fact that the film was scanned at 4k prior and then that master was scaled down to 1080p and put on bluray. 4k discs and 4k players do not exist yet. At least, not in a form available to purchase by normal consumers.

As for 4k TV's, unless you're buying a REALLY REALLY REALLY huge tv, you probably don't have the eyesight to actually take advantage of the difference. And by huge, I mean so big it won't fit in most people's houses. Like, movie theater sized screen big.

There are other things that are actually far more important than pure resolution in determining over all picture quality. These include black levels, actual demonstrated contrast ratio (not the gimmicky number they list on the box), color reproduction, and motion reproduction. There's a guy on another forum I frequent who works in the home video industry and he's posted links to various industry shoot out tests done for professionals showing this. One test even showed that the vast majority of people will tell you a higher contrast 480p image with good black levels is higher resolution than a low contrast 1080p image with crappy more-gray-than-black black levels. In other words, they actually perceived the lower resolution image as having more detail than the higher resolution because the other factors were actually more important than the resolution. The industry has just latched on to the resolution number because it's easy to explain and market. Now, that's not to say resolution isn't important, it's just that it's not the MOST important aspect of determining over all picture quality.

Personally, I would hunt down the biggest Panasonic or Samsung 1080p plasma I could find before they become impossible to get. Panasonic hasn't made them for at least a year now, maybe more. And Samsung is winding down production if they haven't stopped altogether already. But as of a few months ago you could still get samsungs new in the store. For Panasonic you'll probably have to find one on the aftermarket. Personally I think Panasonic plasmas are a little better than samsungs but they both consistently score very highly in professional reviews.

It's sad to see them not being produced any more because plasmas still consistently deliver the absolute best picture quality of any modern display technology. The only thing that can really compete with plasma technology is OLED, but it's still crazy expensive right now. CRT was also as good or better than plasma, but you're talking about a tv that weighs hundreds of pounds (no exaggeration!) for something like a 60 inch tv. And I don't think they even ever made CRTs that big. I think the biggest were in the 30 to 40 inch range.

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We have those vast majorities to thank for VHS being more popular than Beta and Laserdisc though. ;)

Were there even any 4K cameras available when AOTC and ROTS were being made?

Yeah, 4K is  mostly a marketing thing at the moment, much like DVD's that touted HD masters. Titles like Ghostbusters have been remastered, and according to reviews look better than the early releases though.

4K sets are bound to come down in price, so it will eventually be a no brainer.

IIRC, 40 inches was the limit for a CRT. Anything bigger would implode too easily, and that's almost as bad a 200 pound monster sitting in your living room that's already a bit nose heavy.

When I replaced the 30 incher in the living room five years ago, I almost ended up like the Wicked Witch of the East. Why most analog tv's didn't have freaking handles on them, I'll never know.

Didn't Sony's first 4k set have a bunch of movies built in on a hard drive or something?

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canofhumdingers said:
There are other things that are actually far more important than pure resolution in determining over all picture quality. These include black levels, actual demonstrated contrast ratio (not the gimmicky number they list on the box), color reproduction, and motion reproduction. There's a guy on another forum I frequent who works in the home video industry and he's posted links to various industry shoot out tests done for professionals showing this. One test even showed that the vast majority of people will tell you a higher contrast 480p image with good black levels is higher resolution than a low contrast 1080p image with crappy more-gray-than-black black levels.

I would like to see this 480p image that is claimed to be higher resolution than a 1080p, I am not sure I am getting this.   But I said I am no expert, I will trust that it is so.


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I would like to see this 480p image that is claimed to be higher resolution than a 1080p, I am not sure I am getting this.   But I said I am no expert, I will trust that it is so.

 The point he's trying to make is that a shitty HD TV will look worse than a good SD one. Resolution is not the most important aspect of your TV set, and 4k is somewhat of a marketing gimmick right now.

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ok, but is it possible when he said  a higher contrast 480p image with good black levels is higher resolution" he meant high detail or picture quality and not resolution?  I thought by definition 1080p was higher resolution than 480p.


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canofhumdingers said:



As for 4k TV's, unless you're buying a REALLY REALLY REALLY huge tv, you probably don't have the eyesight to actually take advantage of the difference. And by huge, I mean so big it won't fit in most people's houses. Like, movie theater sized screen big.


 

I saw a demo of one at Bestbuy that was around 65". It was obviously playing some sort of demo reel that included a montage of scenes from the various Transformers movies. The image quality was unreal, far beyond any 1080p image I've seen. Then again I have no interest in watching any of the Transformers movies in any form.

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Let me know when 19K TVs are on sale.

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Warbler said:

ok, but is it possible when he said  a higher contrast 480p image with good black levels is higher resolution" he meant high detail or picture quality and not resolution?  I thought by definition 1080p was higher resolution than 480p.

 Warbler, he said that people in a survey thought that the 480p image was higher resolution than the 1080p image, not that it was higher resolution.

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oh.


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 (Edited)

Neglify said:

Let me know when 19K TVs are on sale.

 That's a lot of TVs.  Let me know when you find a store that big.

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canofhumdingers said:


As for 4k TV's, unless you're buying a REALLY REALLY REALLY huge tv, you probably don't have the eyesight to actually take advantage of the difference. And by huge, I mean so big it won't fit in most people's houses. Like, movie theater sized screen big.
THIS.

We're talking about the format that replaced/is replacing film in theaters. Having that much resolution at home seems like overkill.

HOWEVER, as close as I sit to my TV to play Xbox, I might benefit from 4k if they ever made console games at that resolution.

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I think it makes sense that eventually all TVs will be 4K (why not have them at the highest resolution noticeable by the human eye), but I agree they're not that big of a deal and I don't see them becoming the next big thing like HD TVs were. I'm just waiting for when they have become so prominent that I can get one for a low price.

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I thought the mastered in 4k thing was a marketing gimmick for Sony/Columbia pictures.

To me 4k is great at the cinema not so great at home thanks to price and living in  a small apartment.

1080P is fine for me.

I hate digital projection but i saw some stuff shot on film that looked great in Sony 4K digital at the movies.

And to add to what canofhumdingers said a bad master won't look any better at 4k than 1080P when a really good one will look spectacular on 1080P.  So i wonder if the same is true for 4k a good master would look even better.

A good tv is important but a good blu ray master is a must as well.  How many releases are just older masters ported over, not very much better than the 1080i butchered and way too compressed HDTV cable broadcasts.

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