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rotj sucks now because of the PT?

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i know i used to like rotj alot better before the prequels what do you think about it now after the prequels
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Originally posted by: battlewars
i know i used to like rotj alot better before the prequels what do you think about it now after the prequelss


ROTJ comes out looking a lot better after the prequels, though for me it signals Mr. Lucas's slide into mediocrity as a creative force.
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I watched ROTJ(along with the rest of the original trilogy) earlier today, and I like the film and enjoyed watching it, but was thinking because of the Prequels this is where I found the most inconsisties with them, if they are, and I enjoy it more than the Prequel films
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well for people who hate the prequels, the exposition in rotj seems redundant much like in anh not to mention inconsistent, the lame redemption angle of rotj is more pronounced, and i keep thinking of ian mcdiarmids truly horrible performance as the emperor in rots when i watch rotj now
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ROTJ was helped by Shadows of the Empire more than anything.
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For me, ROTJ was only hurt by the prequels by them adding things like Hayden, the Jedi Temple, and Naboo into it. But if you simply take the real ROTJ, I think it's the other way around, that it hurts the prequels, especially ROTS, by telling how things were supposed to be then going back and contradicting it. But of course you could say, and I would say, that they hurt themselves that way by not sticking to the story.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I would have liked now if back then Jedi not being made into the last Star Wars Episode, so they couldve carried on, so they didnt necessarily have to have Leia as Lukes sister and all the other stuff which made it seem so squeezed, and if they end it kept to the Had Abbadon idea it may have been better than a second Death Star, but as it is The Prequels ruin the Dagobah scene with Luke and Kenobi and the Leia and Luke scene on Endor in my opinion. so I try and forget them when watching them scenes
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It doesn't suck, but as I re-examine the film after watching all 3 PT movies, it brought to my attention that Lucas was beginning to change in 1983.

Luckily, there are still great parts of the films along with some average parts, the PT on the other hand have great parts in each movies, but then there are dreadful parts in them too. The ewoks are kiddie, but they are not annoying. The Jabba sequence does go on too long, but it doesn't suck.

TPM had Jar Jar, and he ruins the movie, AOTC had the love story, and that makes me wince everytime they talk jibberish to each other, and makes the movie laughable at times. ROTS has great parts, and then the whole turn scene is bad, and losing the will to live and Leia remembering her mom puzzles me to this day.

ROTJ atleast got the parts right that mattered: The space battle and the throne room scenes. To me, those scenes which constitute the last 45 minutes are pure gold, throw in jabbas sail barge scene, Luke/Leia talk on Endor when it actually made sense before this force memory crap, and Yoda dying then Luke finally confronting ObiWan as a liar in the original, an emotional ending, and it is a really good, but not great movie. There is nothing that really matters in the movie, like the turn scene in ROTS which was key to the whole movie, that Lucas & Marquard screwed up.

But as I said, the PT made me realize that the pinnacle of SW was ESB. That was the last time greatness swept us off our feet for two hours. And you begin to say, 2 great movies out of 6, is this guy really a genius?

Up to 1999, SW to me was 2 classics, and 1 really good movie, and that was fine with me, I mean how many classics can you make? But now that Lucas couldn't make one classic from the PT, and ROTS he had all the story to be better than ESB & Star Wars, but couldn't pull it off. If you can discount ROTS, cause to me the continuity between that and ROTJ make ROTJ a worse movie, I watch them as 4,5,6, and it is just like the mid 80's for me, no new SW movies on the horizon, and 3 SW movies of Luke, Leia, and Han, and no idea that Darth Vader was a stalker who was really bad in picking up girls in my memory..............

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'rotj sucks now because of the PT?'

The 2004 one does I agree, but marry the OOT with the PT and rotj still holds up well even with the plot holes created by GL's bad directing and script writing on the PT.

I suppose that is what happens when you have a guy who thinks he can do something competently and is surrounded by a bunch of arse lickers that are too spineless to tell him otherwise.
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i just meant the whole pathetic vader part sticks out more in rotj, because you see how pathetic he is at the end of rots, which unfortunately reminds me too much of the prequels. and if you dont like the prequels, which i dont, then it reminds you of them more than you would care for it too
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Do what I did. I have binned my PT DVDs (i've kept the disc 2's because they have a few bits of the OT on them).

That way I will not watch them again and they won't taint my memory of the OT.

J

Creator of Star Wars Begins, Building Empire and Returning to Jedi
Follow me on twitter @jamieSWB. Please support me at - http://www.patreon.com/jamiebenning/

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Well the upside is that you can't call ROTJ the worst Star Wars movie anymore.
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Originally posted by: miochza
Well the upside is that you can't call ROTJ the worst Star Wars movie anymore.


I think the correct phrase is "least enjoyable."
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There is no way ROTJ is inferior to any Prequel film.
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IMHO, ROTJ is on the level of TPM and AOTC, while ROTS is on the level of ANH and ESB.

So, there are three excellent films (ROTS, ANH, ESB), and three OK films (TPM, AOTC, and ROTJ).
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Me personally I put Jedi, just above Sith but that said parts are as good if not better, the problem for me, the Prequels havent stood the test of time though I dont hate them, and Revenge of the Sith is the only Prequel I will want to see again.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
IMHO, ROTJ is on the level of TPM and AOTC, while ROTS is on the level of ANH and ESB.

So, there are three excellent films (ROTS, ANH, ESB), and three OK films (TPM, AOTC, and ROTJ).
have you seen rots lately? i got through the first 3 minutes but by the time i got to the buzz droids i quickly lost interest

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Originally posted by: battlewars
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
IMHO, ROTJ is on the level of TPM and AOTC, while ROTS is on the level of ANH and ESB.

So, there are three excellent films (ROTS, ANH, ESB), and three OK films (TPM, AOTC, and ROTJ).
have you seen rots lately? i got through the first 3 minutes but by the time i got to the buzz droids i quickly lost interest


Yes. And I've seen ROTJ recently too. The problem with Jedi, IMHO, is the Jabba's palace scenes. I've always felt that they go on WAY too long.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Originally posted by: battlewars
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
IMHO, ROTJ is on the level of TPM and AOTC, while ROTS is on the level of ANH and ESB.

So, there are three excellent films (ROTS, ANH, ESB), and three OK films (TPM, AOTC, and ROTJ).
have you seen rots lately? i got through the first 3 minutes but by the time i got to the buzz droids i quickly lost interest


Yes. And I've seen ROTJ recently too. The problem with Jedi, IMHO, is the Jabba's palace scenes. I've always felt that they go on WAY too long.



Thats my little complaint with Jedi, the scenes are good, but I would rather see or cant wait to see, the heroes heading towards the final confrontations at the end.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
IMHO, ROTJ is on the level of TPM and AOTC, while ROTS is on the level of ANH and ESB.

So, there are three excellent films (ROTS, ANH, ESB), and three OK films (TPM, AOTC, and ROTJ).


Text


You are partly right about the quality of the SW films, but I classify them this way

Classics - Star Wars, ESB

Very good, but problems- ROTJ, ROTS

Average - AOTC

Waste of 2 hours - TPM

But as I said earlier here is why ROTJ is better than ROTS, ROTJ got the scenes it needed to dead on, and the big scenes in ROTS are awful.

ROTJ needed two scenes to make the movie really good: The throne room scene and the space battle with Lando. Both are awesome and rank up there with SW & ESB quality in those parts. The ewoks are alright, the jabba scene goes on too long, but the sail barge scene and the death of Yoda are very well done, and the ending (Pre-Hayden Ghost) is very emotional cause it brings closure to the OT.

ROTS got the two key scenes wrong that really hurts a good SW movie. The turn & Padme's death. The turn is so badly executed, in fact the whole scene is so badly done, to me that was the key to the whole PT. And I back it up because as I showed in another post, Lucas was changing this scene after shooting a whole different way. First Palps fries his face, and doesn't stop? Then Anakin turns, but it is so underwhelming, "What have I done?" and then 5 seconds later, BAM, he's Darth Vader! First Palps tell him he knows the secret to cheat death, and then the next scene he tells him we can learn this secret together. Now Anakin is in idiot!

Then Padme losing the will to live, and Leia remembering her and not Luke, it is such an anticlimatic scene. First Padme spits out twins, then says, "There is still good in him, ObiWan." Then she loses the will to live? That doesn't make sense for the character arc for the past three movies? Then how does Leia remember Padme, and Luke doesn't? Luke was born first, Padme looks at Luke but never looks at Leia, but it is all because of force memories baloney that Lucas started trotting out after he wasn't going to go with the original story in 1983 that Padme survives and goes into hiding, thus making the ROTJ talk between Luke/Leia totally confusing to a new viewer.

ROTS had a chance to be a classic, and it did have those moments: Anakin alone in the jedi council with the eerie music playing, ObiWan yelling at a burning Anakin on Mustafar, really good stuff. But if Lucas can't sell to the fans why Anakin turned, or if the fans don't buy the whole turn scene in general, how can we think it is a great movie?
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi

Yes. And I've seen ROTJ recently too. The problem with Jedi, IMHO, is the Jabba's palace scenes. I've always felt that they go on WAY too long.
i always thought it was long simply because han was such an interegal character and the cliffhanger to empire was based on what happened to him. so it just seems natural they would take that long to get him out in jedi since people had waited 3 years to see what happened to him

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Originally posted by: battlewars
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi

Yes. And I've seen ROTJ recently too. The problem with Jedi, IMHO, is the Jabba's palace scenes. I've always felt that they go on WAY too long.
i always thought it was long simply because han was such an interegal character and the cliffhanger to empire was based on what happened to him. so it just seems natural they would take that long to get him out in jedi since people had waited 3 years to see what happened to him


True. And the rescue of Han certainly was important, given the events of ESB. But I think the rescue of Han could have been established with less screentime. In the context of the entire saga, that part really doesn't seem AS important as, say, the confrontation of Luke, Vader, and Palpatine. I think that more time should have been spent with the Alliance or on the Death Star than at Jabba's palace.

The entire situation reminds me of the deal with TPM, where they had designed what was basically a 30 minute pod race and, after seeing it in the context of the rest of the film, it seemed like it's own mini movie and was too long and didn't fit. That is how I feel about the ROTJ Jabba scenes as well.
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if you watch jed in the context of the ot where you dont know the saga is supposed to be the redemption of vader it works. but youre right about the pod race holy god that went on forever, main reason i cant watch tpm
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Well, as it is, the pod race is OK. It doesn't seem to detract from anything. After all, the purpose is to show Anakin's skill as a pilot. And that, I think it achieved. Yeah, it can get repetitive and boring at times, but at least it does have a purpose.

It's the same with the ROTJ Jabba scenes. Even though they can be boring at times, they are OK because they have a point. Well, two points really. They show the capture of Han, and establish the fact that Luke is now a full fledged Jedi Knight and it establishes this by showing some of his skills.
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the pod race is okay if you like nascar, which i find boring. wish it had been more like a stree race rather than laps