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4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 79

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Again, the vast majority of people won't get a 4k player, and the prices haven't been announced  yet.

This will fail just as badly as the push for 3D movies and TV sets.

We don't seen 4k players and discs catching on, even to the level that laserdiscs did. They will be for cinefiles only.

Team Negative1

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Yeah, 4K is just not practical for most living room setups. I would prefer to see 1080p downscales of 4K masters, like what Team Negative One is doing and what companies have done with Ghostbusters and RoboCop.

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Yes, just like the push for 3D TVs - pretty much every TV today, except for the most low end ones, is 3D, just like pretty much all TVs within a couple of years will be 4K.

And sure, 4K BDs will be for cinefiles only but isn't that what most of us are here - most non-cinefiles were pretty happy with the GOUT after all :-)

And while 4K BD may be pretty niche, 4K streaming is catching on pretty fast.

By this, I'm not saying you should necessarily do this project in 4K, because sourced from prints, 4K as a final output may actually be a bit of an over-kill and 4K makes everything much harder to deal with and you need super-powerful hardware if the work's not to become awfully frustrating (I would know, I deal with 4K on a daily basis), I'm just pointing out that your reasoning behind why not to go 4K is flawed.

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John Doom said:

Now to stay off-topic, we know 4k televisions' resolution can only be appreciated on a big screen (probably bigger than 30")... now tell me, how are customers supposed to bring them home!? I'm not buying it :\

 What are you, a mouse?

http://fc08.deviantart.net/images3/i/2004/151/f/b/Mouse_TV.jpg

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John Doom said:

Now to stay off-topic, we know 4k televisions' resolution can only be appreciated on a big screen (probably bigger than 30")... now tell me, how are customers supposed to bring them home!? I'm not buying it :\

You don't get the point. It is not about the size of the screen. It is all about the sharpness of the picture.

Some time ago I got Mac with 13" retina display (2560x1600 resolution) and worked on it exclusively for a few months. When I came back home to my usual 24" display with 1920x1080 resolution, whenever I looked at it I saw squares everywhere.

I can most certainly appreciate the high resolution even on a smaller screen.

真実

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That is a false conclusion about resolution and size, concerning video. Sure on static screens you see an improvement, but with video, bigger is better.

With small screens, you won't be able to tell the difference between 720p, 1080p let alone 2160p.

4k is superfluous for the majority of people.

Team Negative1

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If 4K becomes affordable and well-advertised, then it will catch on. 

The Person in Question

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Not this resolution debate again... 

And also, streaming can not compare to disc. There are much lower bitrates for streaming than on discs and they are often adaptive to cope with changing network conditions, lag etc. 

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4k Monitors and TVs have been out for awhile, and some have become affordable, it's not a cheap price that will be a factor. It's the lack of material, and the diminishing returns of the format. 

Consumer fatigue of the new formats is crippling adoption, and HD material is more than adequate for the masses.

Team Negative1

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The car will never catch on, horses are more than adequate for the masses.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Apparently my tv is 48", so I got to fix this:

John Doom said:

Now to stay off-topic, we know 4k televisions' resolution can only be appreciated on a big screen (probably bigger than 50")... now tell me, how are customers supposed to bring them home!? I'm not buying it :\

timdiggerm said:

4K monitors are becoming the standard thing to buy for gamers when going for a top-of-the-line gaming system. Pretty soon they'll be the standard for PC gaming.

With the AAA videogames companies already struggling with 720p (not even 1080p!) visuals' costs, 4k would bring them to bankrupt if happening too soon :\

DavidMerrick said:

Yeah, 4K is just not practical for most living room setups.

team_negative1 said:

With small screens, you won't be able to tell the difference between 720p, 1080p let alone 2160p.

4k is superfluous for the majority of people.

 That's what I'm talking about, you expressed my concerns better than I could :D

TV's Frink said:

What are you, a mouse?

http://fc08.deviantart.net/images3/i/2004/151/f/b/Mouse_TV.jpg

 Nope, but, maybe I was a mouse-droid in galaxy far, far away :D

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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Darth Lars said:

Not this resolution debate again... 

And also, streaming can not compare to disc. There are much lower bitrates for streaming than on discs and they are often adaptive to cope with changing network conditions, lag etc. 

The distance is to me an irrelevant parameter here. I mean to say that I don't consider farther from the screen being necessary better.

真実

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John Doom said:

With the AAA videogames companies already struggling with 720p (not even 1080p!) visuals' costs, 4k would bring them to bankrupt if happening too soon :\

 What?

^And that's just consoles. Meanwhile on PC, which is what timdiggerm was referring to.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Stepping softly in a danger zone…

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Yes, technically xb1 and ps4 can achieve 1080p (though usually no more than 30fps at that resolution).

What I'm saying is that since 2005, when 720p become standard for consoles (not even 1080p!), companies are financially struggling to make content designed for that resolution: hi-res textures, hi-poly models and motion capture (which means paying professional actors too). You see, increasing the resolution doesn't necessarily mean better graphic if you don't do content designed for it: you may have sharp images, but it will eventually make textures look blurry and models too blocky.

AAA companies struggled to handle even 720p content without increasing production costs (which means increasing financial risks) and loosing more and more money each year (look at EA). The situation has worsen since the new 1080p standard (just look at what's happening at Konami, trying to exit consoles' business to work on mobile). AAA videogames' production costs went from $3M in 2005 to $20M by now. If companies can't find a way to save money and reduce financial risks, they won't be able to support 4k content any time soon. But it's ok, because they're probably going to stick to 1080p in this console generation, while making (intentionally) crappy ports on pc.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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Cars are a poor comparison, as they are critical for infrastructure and commerce.

Entertainment is a mere luxury and not significant in the larger scheme.

Many of our members only have TVs with 720p, and are perfectly happy with them, and have no intention of upgrading to 1080p.

4k will be a spectacular failure, much like the bluray format is compared to vhs and dvd adoption. Digital files have replaced them for flexibility and forwards improvements at a much quicker pace.

Team Negative1

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Frank your Majesty said:

The car will never catch on, horses are more than adequate for the masses.

Cars and horses are like apples and oranges, in both functionality and uses, while 1080p TVs and 4k TVs are the same, except in resolution and size (again, because a 4k TV has to be pretty big in order to actually appreciate its resolution).

People like me just want to buy a TV, put it in a living room, making sure it doesn't take too much space and that it can be seen at the right distance (about 2 meters).

team_negative1 said:

4k will be a spectacular failure, much like the bluray format is compared to vhs and dvd adoption. Digital files have replaced them for flexibility and forwards improvements at a much quicker pace.

Well, I don't think digital 4k resolution will be a failure, because it will find some application one way or another.

4k TVs, though, are in my opinion coming too early and are pretty much pointless too (as our very "negative" fellow said :D). The way I see it, it's just an excuse to make us buy something unnecessary.

... But it will sell nonetheless! :D

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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Well when I buy new PC monitor, there is no way I will buy anything less than 4k.

As for DVD vs BluRay, I wouldn't even think about buying somthing on DVD ever since BluRay came out.

真実

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team_negative1 said:

Cars are a poor comparison, as they are critical for infrastructure and 4k will be a spectacular failure, much like the bluray format is compared to vhs and dvd adoption. Digital files have replaced them for flexibility and forwards improvements at a much quicker pace.

 Hahahahahahaha.

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I have a 4k television, but something still troubles me. For instance, hypothetically, say there's a breakthrough in manufacturing costs for 4K televisions, and they can be bought for a relatively reasonable cost. Also, assume at the same time entertainment  companies have lots of material available for streaming and/or download. How are you and your neighbors all going to be able to stream huge ultra HD files at the same time when physical bandwith infrastructure is limited? This isn't meant for any person in particular, just a general question.

40,000 million notches away
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From awhile back, but still relevant:

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About to put even more pressure on physical disc formats, Gray said, is the High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) video compression standard, which doubles the amount of data that can currently be streamed while keeping the "high-definition" format. HEVC can support 8K Ultra-High Definition content with resolutions up to 8192x4320.

The Blu-ray Disc format simply never hit the market levels of the DVD format, which dominated the home entertainment landscape in 2004 with $21.9 billion in sales representing a whopping 96% of home entertainment spending.

Since that peak, optical disc sales have plummeted by about 30%, according to the Digital Entertainment Group. Surprisingly, DVDs still have respectable sales figures, driven mainly by kiosk-style rental machines such as Redbox.

"Many consumers see DVD as good enough," Gray said. "It is rather like a less extreme version of the CD story, where the format was so good that there was little room for improvement (at least in terms of an economically viable category)."

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2488931/data-center/bye-bye--blu-ray--video-on-demand-and-streaming-options-are-gaining-on-you.html

Team Negative1

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Frank your Majesty said:

The car will never catch on, horses are more than adequate for the masses.

And to think I could have learned to ride a horse had it not been for the automobile.

Goddamn modern progress ruins everything. 

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Thank God for Harmy with all this bickering - which is pointless!

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Frank your Majesty said:

The car will never catch on, horses are more than adequate for the masses.

And to think I could have learned to ride a horse had it not been for the automobile.

Goddamn modern progress ruins everything. 

 Last I checked, horses still exist.  And not just at Taco Bell.