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4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 317

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So if the negative had faded quite a bit by 1994, and they had to replace whole sections of it with copies of the separation masters, wouldn’t the original sections have faded even more by the time they scanned it in 4K?

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DrDre said:

You can say that, but speak for yourself. While it is far from perfect, the new 4K master is miles ahead of the 2004/2011 master. I’m kind of fed up with the negativity, and the hyperboles. It would be great, if we can get a proper restoration of the OOT, but given the OT’s history, I will take what I can get.

^This

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Well i was only thinking of how disappointed i was as a consumer. I never considered that the 4K masters would be useful for fanedits or for someone like Harmy to do a new edition of despecialized. In that i agree with the sentiments of it being useful.Not sure how you regain detail lost from it being scrubbed by overly zealous “film restorationists” But that is beyond my station. I’m no colorist or editor, Or fan restorer.

The films looked less than detailed, and A New Hope is the worst it has ever sounded in my opinion. I fell for the hype and had to get the new edition. Better than the 2011 set, yes i agree with major caveats. Better color and no edge enhancement and depending on the scene more detail but its not consistent. No original audio mix and no original version alone is enough to take away several stars from the reissue, again my opinion YMMV.

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I’ve read that the 1080p blu-ray discs included in the 4k boxed set as well as the individual 4K releases were the new scan, but the individual 1080p discs are now just the old blu-rays repackaged with the new covers. Is this true?

I think even the new D+ streaming versions are a vast improvement over the old 1080p Complete Saga (2011) boxed set, but in my opinion, you need a decent 4K TV with HDR as well as a 4K player with HDR to fully appreciate how good these new UHD discs look. I know some things certainly amount to personal preference, but I question what equipment some are looking at things on, and how their screens are calibrated.

Also, I’ve never gotten really great sound while streaming. The best sound by far is on the disc.

A lot of the technical stuff on this site is beyond me, but as someone who hates the special edition changes, I’ll just say for me to love these new discs as much as I do is saying something.

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Rodney-2187 said:

I’ve read that the 1080p blu-ray discs included in the 4k boxed set as well as the individual 4K releases were the new scan, but the individual 1080p discs are now just the old blu-rays repackaged with the new covers. Is this true?

The 1080p blu-ray-only releases were always the 2011 discs repackaged. They came out before the 4K set and releases, and were the first release to have the new packaging. That release was seen to be a backstock-clearing exercise more than anything.

The 4K set and their accompanying 4K individual releases have the same packaging design as the preceding blu-ray-only releases, but they are the only way to get the new scans on a blu-ray disc. You HAVE to buy a 4K release in order to get the new scans on a blu-ray as a pack-in.

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Rodney-2187 said:

I think constantly striving to improve on things is great for fans and everyone involved, but at some point you have to stop and smell the roses and recognize just how far watching Star Wars at home has come.

Yeah! That’s what I will tell myself whenever the OT progresses to looking better than I did with it.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Broom Kid said:

Rodney-2187 said:

I’ve read that the 1080p blu-ray discs included in the 4k boxed set as well as the individual 4K releases were the new scan, but the individual 1080p discs are now just the old blu-rays repackaged with the new covers. Is this true?

The 1080p blu-ray-only releases were always the 2011 discs repackaged. They came out before the 4K set and releases, and were the first release to have the new packaging. That release was seen to be a backstock-clearing exercise more than anything.

The 4K set and their accompanying 4K individual releases have the same packaging design as the preceding blu-ray-only releases, but they are the only way to get the new scans on a blu-ray disc. You HAVE to buy a 4K release in order to get the new scans on a blu-ray as a pack-in.

Europe or Australia have been able to get the 2019 SE versions in 18-disc blu ray box sets for some time.

This week Europe and the UK started selling the individual Star Wars films in 3-disc sets (4K, blu ray and bonus disc) or 2-disc sets (blu ray and bonus discs). Both sets contain the 2019 SE on blu ray.

Australia had been selling both the individual 3-disc and 2-disc sets for a few months (both sets with the 2019 SE on blu ray too).
 

Region-free blu ray players are awesome!

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https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1368118/action/topic#1368118

Broom Kid said:

The UK blu-ray only Skywalker Saga box that was talked about frequently in this thread before the release might be different, but I don’t know that anyone who bought that one (the Wal-Mart link that kept getting posted was essentially a link to import the UK set) has written about it since they got it.

Thanks for the confirmation! It’s good to know.

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Unfortunately there are reports of scratched cases with these steelbooks. I have not had a chance to check mine yet and won’t be able to for a couple of weeks.

Quick follow-up to that previous post:

Zavvi are going to replace every copy of the Empire 4K steelbook due to the case scratches. Sadly they don’t mention changing the design 😬

“If it ain’t workin’, eat sugar.”

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The design for Empire is good, but wasn’t what I was expecting.

May 25, 1977

The day that changed the world

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Has the level of restoration combined with modern home theater technology achieved a level that surpasses what audiences originally were able to see in theaters?

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Rodney-2187 said:

Has the level of restoration combined with modern home theater technology achieved a level that surpasses what audiences originally were able to see in theaters?

I suggest you watch this. It’s a 3 hour video but you’ll learn a lot! 😉

https://youtu.be/G3W_O-tp0_g

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crissrudd4554 said:

Rodney-2187 said:

Has the level of restoration combined with modern home theater technology achieved a level that surpasses what audiences originally were able to see in theaters?

I suggest you watch this. It’s a 3 hour video but you’ll learn a lot! 😉

https://youtu.be/G3W_O-tp0_g

Thanks! I’ve seen it, there’s a thread on it here:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Info-Mike-Vertas-4K-Restoration-May-2020-Livestream/id/77901/page/1

As with everything else, I’ve never seen anything related to any aspect of Star Wars that wasn’t somewhat debated, lol.

I did add it to the Documentaries and Special Features spreadsheet I’ve been working on. Here’s the thread for that:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Guide-to-Star-Wars-Documentaries-and-Special-Features/id/75409

Link directly to spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mai2LI7JUYohMTvW4c8Nv213joz3xxWkFODAY6BUuKs/edit?usp=sharing

I’d love to see Mike Verta’s work get released in some fashion.

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It would be, but I wouldn’t think his copy is all that great to be honest.

May 25, 1977

The day that changed the world

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I don’t think a version that would please everyone is possible.

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No, I don’t think so either

May 25, 1977

The day that changed the world

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Rodney-2187 said:

Has the level of restoration combined with modern home theater technology achieved a level that surpasses what audiences originally were able to see in theaters?

A facile reply would be, ‘Depends on the theater’.

The theatrical experience in 1977 was compromised by factors such as:

  • The duplication stock (projection print) and how the print was made. If you saw a print made by Technicolor in the US, it might have weaker tonality than one made by Technicolor in Rome for the European market because of the high speed duplication preferred by the former. Dupe stock has improved a lot since the 70s as well, so a projection print in 1977 is less likely to have been faithful to the final answer print approved by the director.

  • Projection of the print at less than full luminance. This money saving trick is still alive and well, and I noticed it the second time I saw Solo (the first cinema I saw it at were not so stingy).

  • Projecting a worn out print.

  • Poor maintenance of the projector and not correcting for faults like misfocus, dirt behind the projector lens, motor instability and tears in the optical track.

  • Under-powered amplification and damaged speakers, and not enough speakers for Dolby Stereo (hence the need for the SW mono mix).

If you saw a new print at a theater with a good projectionist and a responsible manager, the picture quality would be pleasing but not as sharp as what you would see from a modern 4k projector. However the soundtrack would be nowhere near as immersive, even if it was in Dolby Stereo through decent speakers.

Saying that, in 1977 it is more likely there would have been an usher on hand to kick out people who were talking. And no mobiles 😁

“If it ain’t workin’, eat sugar.”

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Cthulhunicron said:

Drew mentioned that when the 97 SE version was created, Lucasfilm did a 1080p scan of the original negative. The scan was then digitally cleaned up, revised with new cgi effects and deleted scenes, and then printed back onto film for a new “original negative.”

I know other people already corrected this, but I do want to point out that’s not what I said, or at least not what I meant. Ady was correct in his statement, that the SPECIAL EDITION elements are locked in at 2K at best, including the digitally recomposited shots.

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doubleofive said:
Ady was correct in his statement, that the SPECIAL EDITION elements are locked in at 2K at best, including the digitally recomposited shots.

Wait…but in Industrial Light and Magic – Into the Digital Realm by Mark Cotta Vaz https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/2017/08/22/return-of-the-force/, it says that most of the unaltered special effects shots were recomposited optically/photochemically using the same equipment as in 1977/80/83 - “In a ironic touch, the old optical printer technology’ used to create Star Wars but abandoned years later in ILMs conversion to digital technology’ would be utilized again to restore the many wipes, the skip frames, and the rest of what Pacific Title vice president Phillip Feiner called ‘the bread and butter opticals.’ Pacific Title’s work involved taking the original elements from Lucasfilm and recompositing them, utilizing the company’s eleven state-of-the-art optical printers. With modern lenses and the latest, best Kodak film stocks, the old-fashioned printer technology delivered new comps boasting ‘a boost in resolution and color saturation’ according to Feiner.”

If they were recomp’d physically in 1997, then theoretically they should be native 4K in the 2019 master, right? I’m confused.

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Imagine this, if before they altered everything, they restored the O-Neg and printed it on newer film stock to preserve the original versions for future years and they just, have never told us anything about it and they put the it into the Twentieth Century Fox Film Vaults and hid it from the world for years, then they go and create the Special Editions. Then they’d go on in 2006 and give us a Laserdisc Master with the original crawl spliced on, which is another thing, was it from the new Original Version Preservation O-Neg that they (possibly) created?

And another thing that has me thinking, did they really restore the original versions, then printed it on new film stock? Just to A) preserve it for future generations. or B) they plan on releasing these versions when George is dead. But then just went and made the Special Editions, and what I think, it’s (possibly) some sort of a coverup story to hide the fact that, the original versions are restored and could be released. Then they went onto say that they printed over the O-Neg “When these were completed, they apparently were printed onto film and re-cut into the negative, replacing the original negs, which were undoubtedly put back into storage.” - The Secret History of Star Wars, 11/03/09

But could this be a coverup and the “Original” (I use that term loosely due to the fact where my theory is that they restored the Unaltered Versions and reprinted them on newer film stock) Negative, which could still be in the vaults and they’ve kept it under wraps because George acts like a big baby when someone questions the original versions.

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Pretty spot on there Jonathan

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JonathanArthur19 said:

Imagine this, if before they altered everything, they restored the O-Neg and printed it on newer film stock to preserve the original versions for future years and they just, have never told us anything about it and they put the it into the Twentieth Century Fox Film Vaults and hid it from the world, then they go and create the Special Editions. Then they’d go on in 2006 and give us a Laserdisc Master with the original crawl spliced on.

Which has me thinking, did they really restore the original versions, then printed it on new film stock, and then just went and made the Special Editions, then went onto say that they printed over the O-Neg “When these were completed, they apparently were printed onto film and re-cut into the negative, replacing the original negs, which were undoubtedly put back into storage.” - The Secret History of Star Wars, 11/03/09

But could this be a coverup and the “Original” (I use that term loosely due to the fact where my theory is that they restored the Unaltered Versions and reprinted them on newer film stock) Negative, which could still be in the vaults and they’ve kept it under wraps because George acts like a big baby when someone questions the original versions.

I suspect this is exactly what happened.

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JonathanArthur19 said:

Imagine this, if before they altered everything, they restored the O-Neg and printed it on newer film stock to preserve the original versions for future years and they just, have never told us anything about it and they put the it into the Twentieth Century Fox Film Vaults and hid it from the world for years, then they go and create the Special Editions. Then they’d go on in 2006 and give us a Laserdisc Master with the original crawl spliced on, which is another thing, was it from the new Original Version Preservation O-Neg that they (possibly) created?

And another thing that has me thinking, did they really restore the original versions, then printed it on new film stock? Just to A) preserve it for future generations. or B) they plan on releasing these versions when George is dead. But then just went and made the Special Editions, and what I think, it’s (possibly) some sort of a coverup story to hide the fact that, the original versions are restored and could be released. Then they went onto say that they printed over the O-Neg “When these were completed, they apparently were printed onto film and re-cut into the negative, replacing the original negs, which were undoubtedly put back into storage.” - The Secret History of Star Wars, 11/03/09

But could this be a coverup and the “Original” (I use that term loosely due to the fact where my theory is that they restored the Unaltered Versions and reprinted them on newer film stock) Negative, which could still be in the vaults and they’ve kept it under wraps because George acts like a big baby when someone questions the original versions.

So what you’re saying is that the negative that was physically restored is in storage, but the DIGITALLY restored “negative” is the one that was used for every SE since 1997? I guess that would clear up the confusion. Thanks 😃

As a side note, as much as I want Lucasfilm to release the original versions, I also think it would be in poor taste of them to do it after George dies if he doesn’t give them his approval (which he most likely won’t). George’s approval is really the only thing holding back an official OOT release.

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Broom Kid said:

LexX said:

While that may be true for now, it can change easily.

If they’re moving forward with discontinuing the release of catalog titles (or possibly licensing those titles to boutique labels) they obviously don’t believe there’s much money here. Disney could “cash in” now if they want, and they don’t. They sent the Skywalker Saga set out to die, basically, and they hardly promote any of the new releases they do have. Physical media is dying and it seems like Disney has decided to (pun intended) let it go. It seems very, very much like they’re going to address the “do you want to own something from our catalog” situation by pointing people to Disney+. That’s the “cash-in” they’re pursuing.

If Mulan clears a profit (and it might be able to considering Disney doesn’t have to share any of that revenue with anyone, so the amount of money it needs to gross is much smaller) it seems like Disney+ is going to be how they move forward for everything. The physical media audience is niche enough that they don’t need to cater to it anymore, so they won’t. They’ll maybe accept money from some boutique label to press up limited edition blu-rays, but I wouldn’t be surprised if those licenses aren’t cheap and so whatever hopes of a Criterion-esque (or even Criterion) release of Disney/Fox classics will be limited. That’s if Disney decides to let those titles be licensed.

Piracy really isn’t that much of a concern to the bottom line, and hasn’t been for long while. It’s been more of a boogeyman than an actual threat to business, especially not to any business the size of Disney. Pirated copies of Hamilton and Black is King aren’t even denting Disney’s subscription numbers, for example.

I think if there are hopes for a future Star Wars release that maybe someday possibly involves an official release of the theatrical versions, that release is going to be on Disney+. It’ll be a bonus feature they add one day. This announcement seems to be pointing that way.

Well, well… Disney is again releasing their catalog titles. I don’t want to say I told you so, but I did.

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