Sign In

4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 313

Author
Time

I don’t think anyone needs to be angry or aggressive about any of this here. And since here is made up of other members, and its pretty obvious everyone here wants original versions made officially available for sale - there’s probably no real reason to be angry and aggressive with anyone else on that subject since we’ve all got that as common ground here.

Getting aggressive about “the situation” isn’t going to make anyone want them more than they already want them - which is a lot. It’s probably just going to make people want to want them somewhere else.

Author
Time

I’d say this is a perfect place to voice frustration about the situation. Blow off all the steam ya want, we’re all pals.
I think the mind of “We want the version we like” is coming across stronger than “Erasing history is wrong” & that makes some view the frustration/anger as silly/misplaced. Many conversations lately have revolved around this, and I think some are reading that as aggression.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea
Broom Kid agrees with me.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Well, I kind of softened up on the issue over the years - erasing history is wrong, sure, but thanks to the frustrated fans here taking matters in their own hands, we’re closer than ever to having those versions in 4K77 and 4K83 and hopefully soon 4K80. These preserve the films the way people saw them in theaters back then, so we, here on this, site got frustrated and angry and that drove us to make sure history won’t be erased for those who care. Honestly, I ,of course, hope the originals do get an official release one day but as long as the fan versions are available and Disney doesn’t push against them being freely available to those who want them, I’m happy.

Sure, the general public won’t get to see fan preservations, but the general public doesn’t really care either way, since to them it’s just a movie - they don’t think about film history and how the films were made and so they will remain ignorant - but the general public is totally ignorant of much more important things in history and elsewhere. And the people who do care can get them and research them for historical reasons very easily, thanks to this site.

So, at this point, to me, it is mostly about “I want the version I like”. The main reason I like Star Wars any more is the technical stuff - marveling at how they were able to achieve those shots with the technology at the time, so the altered version are completely uninteresting to me. So for my personal enjoyment, I want a good looking, clean release of the original versions but it’s not really about preserving history any more, it’s about wanting the version I like.

EDIT: This will all actually only be true once 4K80 is out - right now, the 35mm versions of Empire are kind of lacking, though again, for historical research purposes, they’re kind of ok too.

  • www.facebook.com/despecialized
  • IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DESPECIALIZED EDITIONS, PLEASE READ THE FIRST POSTS OF THESE THREADS, WHICH HAVE UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION: SW, ESB, ROTJ, 97SE RE-ED
    IF YOU DON’T FIND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR THERE, TRY ASKING IN THE APPROPRIATE THREADS - MOST REGULAR POSTERS KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS AND SOMEONE WILL LIKELY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU.
    IF I GET A PM WITH A QUESTION, WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN ANSWERED THROUGH THESE MEANS, IT WILL BE IGNORED. SORRY BUT I AM NOT THE LOCAL INFO BOOTH. THANK YOU.
Author
Time
 (Edited)

ray_afraid said:

I’d say this is a perfect place to voice frustration about the situation. Blow off all the steam ya want, we’re all pals.
I think the mind of “We want the version we like” is coming across stronger than “Erasing history is wrong” & that makes some view the frustration/anger as silly/misplaced. Many conversations lately have revolved around this, and I think some are reading that as aggression.

Yeah point taken, but let’s take your statement about “Erasing history is wrong” you can look at that as the theatrical cut of a film not being released in high quality as is the main cause for Star Wars.

But you can also take this as the film was tampered with by the studio perhaps due to time restraints bums on seats in cinemas or imposed re-shoots.

You can also secondarily count censorship as another factor of History being erased could be a shot a sequence or a trim.

All in all there are many, many instances of erasure of film history for reasons other than “The film” itself being the main concern and most of the time either money, politics or censorship are the worst offenders for erasure of film history before you even get to see them.

If we take say Tarzan the Legend of Greystoke for instance is now only available in a slightly extended version with a overture and prologue. The director claims the film is at it’s best with the extra 20 minutes of scenes never before seen cut from the Jungle and Tarzan being raised by the apes… The studio is nervous and does not feel comfortable with this version and feels it is more / too graphic. So we don’t get to see it. They can sit on the footage and refuse to let you see it self censoring perhaps what they may feel is something they will and won’t put their name to.

But as a normal person who likes films and especially Rick Baker’s Make up and creature effects my opinion is basically “What the hell are you cutting that stuff for?” It’s probably really good like the rest of the scenes in Africa was where the film really did shine the most.

So you must also remember that “Theatrical Versions” are not immune either to film history still being erased for various reasons. All in all, it is perhaps a messy business film making but I think generally the 70’s and the 80’s where Directors on the whole had way more control over the films they were making than Directors do now especially big budget projects today. Almost Everything now is a re-boot re-tool re-imagine of franchises originally made decades ago with Studio execs rubbing their hands whilst being even more self conscious and self censoring and pretty much lacking in creativity that it’s pretty undesirable apart from a few decent films every year.

You could Argue films are being erased by their remakes or reboots slightly but it’s natural I suppose but Greystoke is still the Best Tarzan film to this day in my opinion. When you look at Star wars it is the same effect with the sequal trilogy re-boot re-tool so on.

So better you call it “version you like” yes. I doubt it applies to Star Wars particularly on anything being imposed studio wise some censorship is it play though but George Obviously is not Happy with Star Wars for some reason that is why he Changed it. Like I said though it feels more a promotion of ILM than any other film he really wanted to make though we see small glimpses of stuff that changes into full blown CGI feast on the most part and that is not a good reason for releasing another version of a film particularly based on revisionism and nothing to do with planned at the time apart from a few fixes here and there.

One I came across today goes on the political spectrum “Poltergeist” is not available in it’s theatrical version because there is a scene where the small girl says “I hate Pizza Hut” or something like that. Removed for political reasons against corporate franchise. Pizza Hut should just make an halloween advert promotion and waive the cut imposed I suppose for slander. Could they have even gotten away in todays world with just “I hate Pizza” cutting “Hut” who knows… Un-creative thinking perhaps but that perhaps still might not wash as it slanders still the product. Lawyer with lawsuit in hand imposes changes to the film.

But I hope you get the point “Version you Like” is the best way to go.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Hey now, don’t dream it’s over.

The better colors of the Disney+ versions have made me more interested in the 4K Skywalker Saga than I was before. It used to be Unaltered or nothing, but I suppose I’ve softened too. But dreaming of a proper release is something I’ll never stop doing. I never thought I’d see a release of multiple versions of Blade Runner because it’s not a movie the mainstream cares much about. The same with Brazil. But we have both of those. It seems unlikely right now, but not impossible that the Original Trilogy could eventually get a similar release.

Save the Rebellion. Save the dream.

Star Wars fans are largely collectors. I will just keep collecting the best versions I can get and dreaming of the best possible scenario.

Technically, I have access to everything I need right now. I can see the unaltered versions whenever I want, and they look great. The main issue for me is the history being rewritten. I want those original effects restored for posterity. I want them readily available not just for people who already want them, but for people to discover who are unaware.

The truth is (not) out there.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Rodney-2187 said:

I never thought I’d see a release of multiple versions of Blade Runner because it’s not a movie the mainstream cares much about.

Ridley Scott was pretty fed up with it and he finally decided to do an ultimate release of his film which he fought long and hard for his “Directors Cut” but gave you the options to view many different iterations including a well thought out tweaked final cut.

Still waiting on the San-diego preview cut shot though of Deckards fingers being snapped 😃

Your main hurdle here is George wanting to release the original or even an alternate original version of which we know exists the sound mix confirms it was made for certain shots to go in different places in some parts.

It’s having to separate George Lucus ILM Founder hemisphere and George Lucus Film Maker Hemisphere from one another.

We need to re-hatch or regress to a George Lucus Film Maker who was still yet to form or just set up ILM I feel.

ILM is George’s greatest success not his films as such although Lucusfilm still lives it is not the main success story.

But this is a Paradox because he erases the start of his own success story with ILM.

How many different versions of scenes you have only seen “one version” of has George Lucus seen and changed and altered and re-done 20 times before you saw it with ILM?

I think he just see’s himself as ILM more than Lucusfilm.

Author
Time

At some point it has to go back to being about more than George Lucas.

Author
Time

Ronster said:

ray_afraid said:

I’d say this is a perfect place to voice frustration about the situation. Blow off all the steam ya want, we’re all pals.
I think the mind of “We want the version we like” is coming across stronger than “Erasing history is wrong” & that makes some view the frustration/anger as silly/misplaced. Many conversations lately have revolved around this, and I think some are reading that as aggression.

Yeah point taken, but let’s take your statement about “Erasing history is wrong” you can look at that as the theatrical cut of a film not being released in high quality as is the main cause for Star Wars.

But you can also take this as the film was tampered with by the studio perhaps due to time restraints bums on seats in cinemas or imposed re-shoots.

This isn’t the same at all. Nor are any of the other examples you brought up.
Not the same ballpark, not the same sport.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea
Broom Kid agrees with me.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Well they might be… When Star Wars was made there technically was no Industrial Light & Magic many people were hiring Special effects Specialists on their productions be it Douglus Trumball or John Dykstra or any other Special effects Artists exploring making Special effects better and more realistic after the release of 2001 a Space odyssey.

Although the Special effects Artists were directly employed by George Lucus to produce the Special effects for Star Wars they were not Contracted for anything else depending on after the films success.

Once Star Wars was a Hit it was decided at that point George would set up ILM near his home in North California and Dykstra and some others would go on to set up Apogee Inc because they chose not to move.

The Dykstraflex system at this point would be re-designed and renamed and patented to an ILM version of the technology no doubt.

So Perhaps George feels that in some cases where he did not feel he had enough say in how something looked also as He and Trumbell could not see eye to eye exactly on Star Wars Special Effects so Trumball pulled out and what with Dykstra setting up Agogee Inc (Trumball Progeny) and doing Battlestar Galactica, it was something that he felt in some ways were not truly representing what he was trying for the special effects wise as there is a big leap from Star Wars and Empire Strike Back Special Effects Wise. I think George was trying for his own style perhaps…

I think this is really the only sense I can make of it… That Split before ILM was formed properly.

And George is really only altering Special effects Primarily but then you have the Bad Mos Eisely stuff thrown in too.

It’s probably not worth really analyzing more than this like I said “version I like” 😃

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Those special effects George doesn’t like won awards. So did the editing. The arrogance of erasing someone else’s award winning work from history is infuriating to me. In the 90’s I was excited at the idea of the Special Editions, and I would likely be more accepting of them now if not for the suppression of the originals. It’s more about that suppression than it is whatever tinkering is done. That’s why I say Star Wars must go back to being about more than George Lucas.

You can’t like the version you like if it doesn’t exist anymore.

Author
Time

I’d be far more accepting if there was any honesty involved. Something like Blade Runner, The Lord of the Rings or Amadeus is labelled clearly so you know what’s in the box. Even if certain versions are rarely released. With these it’s still shown as 1977 instead of whatever Special Edition they’re now selling. Those two words don’t appear anywhere.

Yub Nub for life

Author
Time

Mocata said:

I’d be far more accepting if there was any honesty involved. Something like Blade Runner, The Lord of the Rings or Amadeus is labelled clearly so you know what’s in the box. Even if certain versions are rarely released. With these it’s still shown as 1977 instead of whatever Special Edition they’re now selling. Those two words don’t appear anywhere.

Nor have they for over 20 years.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I haven’t bought any Star Wars DVDs since purchasing the GOUT tin in 2006 (except for the Rogue One Blu-Ray 3D/Blu-Ray/DVD/Digital HD combo set I bought from Target in 2017). If this new boxed set doesn’t include the original films, then I have absolutely no interest in it. Hell, I haven’t even watched any of the Special Editions since I first saw them when they were released in theaters in the 1990s (except for a few horrible tidbits here and there on the internet). So, until the unaltered original trilogy is released (or they make another good Star Wars movie like Rogue One), then I’ll just save my money for other things.

And as for George Lucas…All the criticism he’s received is just a natural consequence of his willful suppression of the original films. If it wasn’t for his insecurity and pettiness, he wouldn’t feel the need to try to diminish the originals in order to prop up his Special Editions (“Oh look, aren’t these new and shiny Star Wars movies so much better than those old, grainy originals?”).

Author
Time

STAR WARS is dead - has been since 1983. Everything that’s come after is of no consequence, imo.

I’m only interested in the unaltered classic trilogy getting a proper restoration & official release.

If it’s not part of the 4K set, then I don’t need to buy this. I don’t want any more copies of the prequels and SEs. The previous DVDs & BDs are more than enough.

I’m not blowing good money on a substandard product.

Author
Time

Pardon me for asking (backtracking the thread is a bit daunting), but is there anything different about the way the audio is mixed itself? I am aware of some of the the actual changes.

Anyone know if this is one of those mixes with all but no music in the center channel?

So, a new book came out and we learned so much, and it is called, "Anguilosaurus, Killer of the Living".

Author
Time

My understanding is that it’s the same as the blu-ray mix (done by Matthew Wood, I believe?) but I don’t know if that’s actually the case or if it was an assumption made in the early days of the 4k release being out. It took awhile for people to realize what the 4K masters were, too. Audio changes tend to not get noticed as fast or as thoroughly, so it’s a really good question that I’m curious to see answered too.

Author
Time

What if this is the last time they release these on physical media? After this it’s just Disney+ and Movies Anywhere from now on. Makes me want to get the set just in case.

How would everyone feel if they only released the unaltered versions on streaming?

Author
Time

Rodney-2187 said:

What if this is the last time they release these on physical media? After this it’s just Disney+ and Movies Anywhere from now on. Makes me want to get the set just in case.

How would everyone feel if they only released the unaltered versions on streaming?

Please don’t give them any terrible ideas. 😃

Author
Time

Rodney-2187 said:

What if this is the last time they release these on physical media? After this it’s just Disney+ and Movies Anywhere from now on. Makes me want to get the set just in case.

How would everyone feel if they only released the unaltered versions on streaming?

It’d be riptastic. I mean fantastic.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

Author
Time

It’s a good question. For whatever reason, consumers have told content providers that they’re not really interested in physical media anymore (despite the fact our internet infrastructure is pretty bad, way overpriced, and regulated poorly by our government) and it seems pretty plausible that 4K is essentially where physical media stops. While this is a bad thing in a lot of ways - the removal of the cost of producing physical copies could remove a barrier or two.

Of course, the cost probably isn’t a very big concern as to why the original versions aren’t being released - but it would probably be easier to make them a digital only release. Digital only releases are likely what we’re looking at in the next 10 years anyway.

Author
Time

KISS are on their supposed tour with two imposters. Still not going. If this is the final SW video release, that’s nice or sad or whatever. However if you want my money you have to include the OUT.

Author
Time

The soundtracks on the Disney+ versions seem to be unchanged from the Blurays: meaning the first movie still sounds like the same godawful, muffled mess it has been ever since 2004.

It seems unbelievable to me that it has now been over 15 years since this sonic disaster was first inflicted on our ears…

Author
Time
 (Edited)

You know, I did notice the dialogue often sounded surprisingly crappy when I watched the D+ version of A New Hope. I couldn’t believe that an official 4K copy would sound like that when plenty of other sources/versions (both official and unofficial) sound so much better. It’s like they couldn’t find the proper recordings and just used somebody’s cassette tape they recorded off a tv broadcast as a kid for some of the dialogue!

Author
Time

canofhumdingers said:

You know, I did notice the dialogue often sounded surprisingly crappy when I watched the D+ version of A New Hope. I couldn’t believe that an official 4K copy would sound like that when plenty of other sources/versions (both official and unofficial) sound so much better. It’s like they couldn’t find the proper recordings and just used somebody’s cassette tape they recorded off a tv broadcast as a kid for some of the dialogue!

The trash compactor scene is the worst.