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4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 306

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Jedi Master Skywalker said:

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1204960815821946880?s=21

JJ is on our sides

Very interesting. I’m sure Disney ain’t happy, but glad to know we have someone official on our side.

44rh1n said:

Very interesting! Charles Bunnag, one of the colorists of the new 4K HDR Disney+ version of the Original Trilogy, as well as “The Mandalorian,” has spoken regarding the negative claims that the Disney+ HDR is “fake.” There’s even an interesting comment from Marc Wielage (colorist of the 2004 versions). https://mixinglight.com/color-tutorial/is-the-disney-series-the-mandalorian-fake-hdr/

Also cool. Yeah, I’ve watched Mandalorian on both my 1080p tv and my new 4K and both look great (not a great ton of difference between the two but shrug.

I’ve read the rest of the thread (not gonna quote all of it) but I agree the OOT is becoming a less distinct possibility. I would love to see them brought back but as it stands, I think the flame wars between old-timers from the 70s-97 and the newbies from 97-now will make the star wars look like a skirmish. I don’t think Disney wants that headache and those of us who want the OOT but can just as easily enjoy the 4K19 (even with “Maklunky”, rocks in front of R2 and “NOOOOO!!!” in Jedi) are gonna be stuck in the middle. I’m keeping up hope but I’m not going to let it cloud my enjoyment of the trilogy.

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It’s a shame they won’t restore the originals. Even if they don’t want to revert back to those, at least they could put out a Classic Trilogy set that doesn’t interact with the revised versions in the official “canon”.

There’s no reason they couldn’t even finally do sets with every cut included.

Although, if Disney did try and do the originals, there’s probably a good chance there would be some mistakes I guess.

Enjoying the 4K77 and 83 anyway.

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I’m really not liking this defeatist attitude. We’ve been fighting for the OOT for 15+ years. I’m not about to give up now. JJ says he didn’t even understand Disney’s excuse. Which says to me they probably don’t have a valid excuse. Just that they don’t see a demand that would override “George asked us not to”.

The problem I’m seeing is an “I got mine” attitude. Disney doesn’t seem to mind the fan restorations as much as Lucas did (which is why he released the GOUT). The more we go around saying “Well, I guess it’s not coming, doesn’t matter to me because I’ve got [DEED/4KXX/VHS]”, the less likely Disney is going to spend money to give us new scans. I’m not saying we can’t have and enjoy the fan preservations, I’m saying we can’t pretend they would be ANYTHING compared to a professional scan of the uncirculated three color separation backups they have just sitting in an archive. We have to make the demand.

The fact that Disney may be depending on the fans to preserve film history is shameful. And we can’t depend on ourselves to be able to preserve it for future generations. Or even past generations. I shouldn’t have to download shady copies of the movies my parents loved to then convert into a different format to then burn on a disc and hope it works on their disc players. We as fans should not be depended on to distribute the original films.

The simple fact is that the originals are historical artifacts. We need to convince Disney of that.

I have an article written that goes through every addition & how each one ruins the movies & shows how none of them were actually done for artistic purposes. I hope when it’s published that it will be the spark that burns down the Special Editions, or at least shows that they are so flawed that we deserve to at least have the option to watch the originals.

#ReleaseTheOriginalTrilogy

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It’s strange that one of the most popular films ever you can’t see the original version in any way in HD as you say without having to resort to shady methods, bootlegs and fan attempts all be it well done fan attempts with a passion.

I think McClunky kind of sums up how it is “Clunky” being the operative word that sticks.

I don’t mind small touch ups and some CGI ships to be honest redo compositing but I am totally against on the Whole the complete CGI scenes by and Large.

I don’t mind some of the new digital Matte paintings either I can see Valid reasons behind many changes made.

I think with Star Wars 1977 George should compromise on this… I can see many reasons for and against changes but at the end of the day Jabba and crap CGI in mos-eisly must go… Nothing else is all that bad but a few less digital shots during the death star battle would be welcome as would uncensor gun battles as in the original theatrical. Original Dianogo too would be nice. If we could get George to change his mind then we will see it somewhat “Saved”

Empire is Alright as a Special Edition mostly least damage done.

Return of the Jedi should be reverted in many spots where it is extremely harmful.

Let us take the CGI dewbacks in Star Wars for instance. George sat there looking at the close up shot with the creature effects and thought “I really like that…But I want it to be in the frame in the background I will CGI it in rather than use this shot but I will base it off this original shot” but what he should of done was say “I really like that shot I will restore it to the film” There would not be half as many complaints as we have about this film now. It would just be extra footage shot at the time restored to the film end of story.

It needs to feel at least partially of it’s time even if it has some updates done to it. I am on Georges side a pinch but he just went to far and ruined the vibe with a lot of the CGI stuff.

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^that, in my opinion, is the most dangerous attitude of all. “Just change back the most offensive parts” is every bit as revisionist as any special edition so far, but far more insidious and dangerous to history because it appeases the ire of many which reduces demand and interest in the actual original cuts even more. It’s an extremely slippery slope.

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canofhumdingers said:

^that, in my opinion, is the most dangerous attitude of all. “Just change back the most offensive parts” is every bit as revisionist as any special edition so far, but far more insidious and dangerous to history because it appeases the ire of many which reduces demand and interest in the actual original cuts even more. It’s an extremely slippery slope.

My thoughts exactly.

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doubleofive said:

I have an article written that goes through every addition & how each one ruins the movies & shows how none of them were actually done for artistic purposes. I hope when it’s published that it will be the spark that burns down the Special Editions, or at least shows that they are so flawed that we deserve to at least have the option to watch the originals.

This to me seems to be completely beside the point. The OOT debate imo is not about which version is better, which is wholly subjective, but which came first, which is a wholly objective. It is about preserving the history of film, and being able to view the films as they were released in their time warts and all.

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DrDre said:

doubleofive said:

I have an article written that goes through every addition & how each one ruins the movies & shows how none of them were actually done for artistic purposes. I hope when it’s published that it will be the spark that burns down the Special Editions, or at least shows that they are so flawed that we deserve to at least have the option to watch the originals.

This to me seems to be completely beside the point. The OOT debate imo is not about which version is better, which is wholly subjective, but which came first, which is a wholly objective. It is about preserving the history of film, and being able to view the films as they were released in their time warts and all.

We need as many arrows in our quiver as we can get. “Film History” can only get us so far, apparently, since that’s the drum we’ve been banging for 15 years. “Han Shot First” was a great rallying cry, but sounds petty now that it’s a meme. Showing that every single addition actively & obviously hurts the movies by being included gives us another angle. The Special Editions are not the phenomena that Disney purchased. They barely stand up as individual films now.

I’d love to have people contribute articles if they’d like, from all of the angles. The more evidence we can easily point to that the originals deserve to be available, the better.

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 (Edited)

I think the “defeatist” attitude you’re seeing is what happens when about two decades of making the best, most salient, most thorough argument doesn’t lead to the results we want. There isn’t any more argument to make, really. They’ve ALL been made, as clearly as possible, for 15 years. Parts of it are so thoroughly consumed and metabolized by an entertainment media more than happy to cover this on our behalf that they became memes, as you said. “Where are the originals” is such a knee-jerk question at this point it still comes up, in 2019 press junkets. It’s usually the first thing inserted into the 2nd or 3rd paragraph on any story about ANY rumored or reported on new release of the original trilogy.

It’s not a question of having all the arrows in our quiver, or having bigger and better ones that we haven’t thought of yet. It’s not a question of ammo at all, really, or of our being able to “convince” the giant corporation of their responsibility to making salable catalog product we want to buy. We’ve made our case, and had our case amplified and further made for us. There’s basically nothing else to do but wait for them to change their minds. It’s completely out of our hands, and we have no control over them or their decision making process. That’s not defeatism. That’s acceptance. They know who we are, they know what we want, they know how many of us there are, they understand the arguments. Abrams isn’t the only person in the industry with a copy of Despecialized. Odds are pretty good it was someone at Lucasfilm who gave them to him. But there’s no argument, no hidden magic bullet just waiting to be discovered and fired that’s going to make Disney do what we want.

The only thing we actually seem to have any control over is how to make for ourselves the thing that we want in the meantime. And this community has taken that control and turned out amazing work that is appreciated by a lot of people. Will Disney finally decide to do the thing we’ve wanted them to do at some point? Maybe. But there really isn’t anything more this community can do to make it more clear that we’d like them to do that, to make a case stronger than the one they already have before them that they’re deciding to ignore.

It’s out of our hands.

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Broom Kid said:

I think the “defeatist” attitude you’re seeing is what happens when about two decades of making the best, most salient, most thorough argument doesn’t lead to the results we want. There isn’t any more argument to make, really. They’ve ALL been made, as clearly as possible, for 15 years. Parts of it are so thoroughly consumed and metabolized by an entertainment media more than happy to cover this on our behalf that they became memes, as you said. “Where are the originals” is such a knee-jerk question at this point it still comes up, in 2019 press junkets. It’s usually the first thing inserted into the 2nd or 3rd paragraph on any story about ANY rumored or reported on new release of the original trilogy.

It’s not a question of having all the arrows in our quiver, or having bigger and better ones that we haven’t thought of yet. It’s not a question of ammo at all, really, or of our being able to “convince” the giant corporation of their responsibility to making salable catalog product we want to buy. We’ve made our case, and had our case amplified and further made for us. There’s basically nothing else to do but wait for them to change their minds. It’s completely out of our hands, and we have no control over them or their decision making process. That’s not defeatism. That’s acceptance. They know who we are, they know what we want, they know how many of us there are, they understand the arguments. Abrams isn’t the only person in the industry with a copy of Despecialized. Odds are pretty good it was someone at Lucasfilm who gave them to him. But there’s no argument, no hidden magic bullet just waiting to be discovered and fired that’s going to make Disney do what we want.

The only thing we actually seem to have any control over is how to make for ourselves the thing that we want in the meantime. And this community has taken that control and turned out amazing work that is appreciated by a lot of people. Will Disney finally decide to do the thing we’ve wanted them to do at some point? Maybe. But there really isn’t anything more this community can do to make it more clear that we’d like them to do that, to make a case stronger than the one they already have before them that they’re deciding to ignore.

It’s out of our hands.

Well put!

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canofhumdingers said:

^that, in my opinion, is the most dangerous attitude of all. “Just change back the most offensive parts” is every bit as revisionist as any special edition so far, but far more insidious and dangerous to history because it appeases the ire of many which reduces demand and interest in the actual original cuts even more. It’s an extremely slippery slope.

I wwould argue it is not that big of a deal… It is a film at the end of the day.

These things only ever matter when Somone makes a bad decision. If the decision is apalling like what happened to various parts of Star Wars then there should not be anyone keeping a version of how you first saw it from you. I agree with this.

There are many films with valid reasons why the original should be preserved and the want for a Special edition or directors cut.

Many films I would love to see some more of what was shot… But unfortunately the Star Wars Special editions do not follow this path particularly. They are the same films with totally different shots forced in them or altered beyond recognition.

Would we just start shoving color footage in to the original King Kong?

No we would not…

Would welike to see the lost Spider pit scene?

Yes we would.

It really is this simple I feel.

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Ronster said:

These things only ever matter when Somone makes a bad decision.

Incorrect. It always matters when the original is suppressed.

There are many films with valid reasons why the original should be preserved

No. Not “many.”

ALL.

Again, THIS MENTALITY IS DANGEROUS. This is how history gets erased.

a trolling bantha

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I wouldn’t call it “defeatist”. We’re just at the “Acceptance” stage of grief. There are ways to accept something without being defeatist, described below.

CatBus said:

captainsolo said:

From 2005-2008 I gave up Star Wars entirely. For someone who as a child had been an incessant fan, (My childhood was comprised entirely of Film, Literature, James Bond, Star Wars and Batman) this was really hard to do but I just found I didn’t care anymore.

It occurred to me that since I went through this stage too, our whole collective experience may fit the Kübler-Ross “stages of grief” model. So here we go:

Denial: “No way will Lucasfilm pass up a chance to cash in on re-releasing the unaltered trilogy. They’d never let that goldmine go to waste!” Uh-huh, sure.

Anger: We may not all say George Lucas did something nasty with our childhood, but everyone has a little generalfrevious buried deep down somewhere.

Bargaining: cough Petition cough

Depression: The phase described by captainsolo above.

Acceptance: “Don’t want to preserve Star Wars, Mr. Lucas? Fine, I accept that. Now we’ll just have to save the damn thing ourselves!” A little more defiant in tone than you’d expect from something called “Acceptance”, but I think it works.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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ChainsawAsh said:

Ronster said:

These things only ever matter when Somone makes a bad decision.

Incorrect. It always matters when the original is suppressed.

There are many films with valid reasons why the original should be preserved

No. Not “many.”

ALL.

Again, THIS MENTALITY IS DANGEROUS. This is how history gets erased.

The Creator has provided his vision of the film he wants to show you.

This is a fairly unique situation and I think George likes the fact he can and will do what “He wants” with them (his films).

You can either accept this vision that he currently has or watch the fan preservations of the originals.

That is it in a nutshell unless you can somehow get him to change his mind on it all.

And you know think about that Storm Trooper Riding on the dewback. George Likes it but he feels it’s not good enough. You need to pair that lobby card with the Special Edition and make the man realise we liked it for the original creature effects people respected how it was done. It was brilliantly executed but the courage to show it in close up was not enough.

But when you look at the Cgi horribleness and the lobby card creature effects the Lobby card wins everytime. You know and I know why George liked it.

Remind him why Star wars was so good not complain and go on and on.
Call this out and say well we only wanted to see the original creature effects not Cgi ones. But we agree It looked good shame we never got to see them close up we envy you 😃

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Ronster said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Ronster said:

These things only ever matter when Somone makes a bad decision.

Incorrect. It always matters when the original is suppressed.

There are many films with valid reasons why the original should be preserved

No. Not “many.”

ALL.

Again, THIS MENTALITY IS DANGEROUS. This is how history gets erased.

The Creator has provided his vision of the film he wants to show you.

This is a fairly unique situation and I think George likes the fact he can and will do what “He wants” with them (his films).

You can either accept this vision that he currently has or watch the fan preservations of the originals.

That is it in a nutshell unless you can somehow get him to change his mind on it all.

And you know think about that Storm Trooper Riding on the dewback. George Likes it but he feels it’s not good enough. You need to pair that lobby card with the Special Edition and make the man realise we liked it for the original creature effects people respected how it was done. It was brilliantly executed but the courage to show it in close up was not enough.

But when you look at the Cgi horribleness and the lobby card creature effects the Lobby card wins everytime. You know and I know why George liked it.

Remind him why Star wars was so good not complain and go on and on.
Call this out and say well we only wanted to see the original creature effects not Cgi ones. But we agree It looked good shame we never got to see them close up we envy you 😃

You really, really, really don’t understand the core purpose of this website, do you?

Preservation.

Of.

Film.

History.

He can have his “director’s cut” and none of us would care, if he did what almost every other director has done and made the originally released version available alongside his preferred version.

It’s fucking baffling to me that I have to explain this super basic thing to a longtime member of this site.

a trolling bantha

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DrDre said:

doubleofive said:

I have an article written that goes through every addition & how each one ruins the movies & shows how none of them were actually done for artistic purposes. I hope when it’s published that it will be the spark that burns down the Special Editions, or at least shows that they are so flawed that we deserve to at least have the option to watch the originals.

This to me seems to be completely beside the point. The OOT debate imo is not about which version is better, which is wholly subjective, but which came first, which is a wholly objective. It is about preserving the history of film, and being able to view the films as they were released in their time warts and all.

This^ and frankly this is why it kinda annoys me when folks say ‘they should remove this but keep that’. That loses the entire point of the situation. I’m not after a ‘compromise’. I want the ORIGINAL VERSION, matte line, poor compositing, wires, and all. A ‘compromise’ is still unfaithful to preserving history.

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ChainsawAsh said:

Ronster said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Ronster said:

These things only ever matter when Somone makes a bad decision.

Incorrect. It always matters when the original is suppressed.

There are many films with valid reasons why the original should be preserved

No. Not “many.”

ALL.

Again, THIS MENTALITY IS DANGEROUS. This is how history gets erased.

The Creator has provided his vision of the film he wants to show you.

This is a fairly unique situation and I think George likes the fact he can and will do what “He wants” with them (his films).

You can either accept this vision that he currently has or watch the fan preservations of the originals.

That is it in a nutshell unless you can somehow get him to change his mind on it all.

And you know think about that Storm Trooper Riding on the dewback. George Likes it but he feels it’s not good enough. You need to pair that lobby card with the Special Edition and make the man realise we liked it for the original creature effects people respected how it was done. It was brilliantly executed but the courage to show it in close up was not enough.

But when you look at the Cgi horribleness and the lobby card creature effects the Lobby card wins everytime. You know and I know why George liked it.

Remind him why Star wars was so good not complain and go on and on.
Call this out and say well we only wanted to see the original creature effects not Cgi ones. But we agree It looked good shame we never got to see them close up we envy you 😃

You really, really, really don’t understand the core purpose of this website, do you?

Preservation.

Of.

Film.

History.

He can have his “director’s cut” and none of us would care, if he did what almost every other director has done and made the originally released version available alongside his preferred version.

It’s fucking baffling to me that I have to explain this super basic thing to a longtime member of this site.

It does not require that tone to make your point I already said I agree that the originals should be made available.

Why don’t you take that sort of tone with George or Spielberg see how far it get’s you…

This is probably why you just get ignored. I am not going to take offence though to your comment but I simply will now assume any contradictory position with that sort of attitude.

Perhaps it is all about changing the attitude when you want something. Because that attitude will get you nowhere.

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Does anyone know WHY Lucas stubbornly clings to his decision? Is he embarrassed about the original release or is he just being that controlling of his creation? or is it something else?

I find his decision to date quite puzzling on the surface of it.

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Creox said:

Does anyone know WHY Lucas stubbornly clings to his decision? Is he embarrassed about the original release or is he just being that controlling of his creation? or is it something else?

I find his decision to date quite puzzling on the surface of it.

I read a few years back, that Lucas once attended a screening of Star Wars, and only while watching it realized it was the theatrical cut. He seemed very uncomfortable watching it. I think he really feels the theatrical versions are unfinished to the point, that he’s embarrassed about the technical flaws in the film, like for example the blob underneath the speeder, or the degradation of several shots, due to optical compositing.

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$250 is a lot of money. Do I want it? Sure, but for that price and it not including the unaltered versions, I’ll just watch my Harmy discs and stream 4K HDR version from Disney+ when I want. Yes, and actual disc would be better, but not $250 better, at lest not for me. Now if it had the unaltered versions, it would be a definite purchase no matter what.

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Creox said:

Does anyone know WHY Lucas stubbornly clings to his decision? Is he embarrassed about the original release or is he just being that controlling of his creation? or is it something else?

I find his decision to date quite puzzling on the surface of it.

I honestly believe he likes the latest SE revisions better, and it does more closely align with his original vision (in a general sense, clearly not the specifics). Keep in mind that Star Wars and Empire at least were heavily collaborative efforts, and Lucas was not anywhere near the final authority on Star Wars. He was involved, but he didn’t direct Empire and it showed. Other people could talk him out of his dumber ideas, and he was unsure enough of himself that he’d listen.

Now, it’s all Lucas, unfiltered. And yeah, that sucks.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Honestly, for this set, the OOT isn’t even my biggest hope, partially because I’ve had years and years of accepting the fact it’s not a priority at Lucasfilm or Disney.

I’m hoping for isolated scores. Especially since The Last Jedi’s isolated score seemed to be a pretty big success, and was actually NEWS for a day or two. It seems weird that a feature that was - if not standard - commonplace in the DVD era is now newsworthy, but still. If The Last Jedi can get one, I’m hoping they’ve decided this Skywalker Saga set will include isolated scores. I’d prefer they be on disc, but if it’s the same sort of “online extra” thing, I’m fine with that too. However we get them, I want them.

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DrDre said:

Creox said:

Does anyone know WHY Lucas stubbornly clings to his decision? Is he embarrassed about the original release or is he just being that controlling of his creation? or is it something else?

I find his decision to date quite puzzling on the surface of it.

I read a few years back, that Lucas once attended a screening of Star Wars, and only while watching it realized it was the theatrical cut. He seemed very uncomfortable watching it. I think he really feels the theatrical versions are unfinished to the point, that he’s embarrassed about the technical flaws in the film, like for example the blob underneath the speeder, or the degradation of several shots, due to optical compositing.

Thanks for that…That is what I generally thought. I find it a real let down that he would not be as or more interested in preserving his original creation if even for posterity let alone history.

He could have released all of his versions aka Blade Runner but his decision to date reflects a narcissistic or selfishness like “no one can have it because I don’t like the way it looks”…sigh.

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CatBus said:

Creox said:

Does anyone know WHY Lucas stubbornly clings to his decision? Is he embarrassed about the original release or is he just being that controlling of his creation? or is it something else?

I find his decision to date quite puzzling on the surface of it.

I honestly believe he likes the latest SE revisions better, and it does more closely align with his original vision (in a general sense, clearly not the specifics). Keep in mind that Star Wars and Empire at least were heavily collaborative efforts, and Lucas was not anywhere near the final authority on Star Wars. He was involved, but he didn’t direct Empire and it showed. Other people could talk him out of his dumber ideas, and he was unsure enough of himself that he’d listen.

Now, it’s all Lucas, unfiltered. And yeah, that sucks.

SW is definitely his baby but one that was ran through a lot of other people’s filters before we ever saw it. Yep.

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Creox said:

CatBus said:

Creox said:

Does anyone know WHY Lucas stubbornly clings to his decision? Is he embarrassed about the original release or is he just being that controlling of his creation? or is it something else?

I find his decision to date quite puzzling on the surface of it.

I honestly believe he likes the latest SE revisions better, and it does more closely align with his original vision (in a general sense, clearly not the specifics). Keep in mind that Star Wars and Empire at least were heavily collaborative efforts, and Lucas was not anywhere near the final authority on Star Wars. He was involved, but he didn’t direct Empire and it showed. Other people could talk him out of his dumber ideas, and he was unsure enough of himself that he’d listen.

Now, it’s all Lucas, unfiltered. And yeah, that sucks.

SW is definitely his baby but one that was ran through a lot of other people’s filters before we ever saw it. Yep.

In a lot of ways, Lucas’s filters came off for Jedi, but he was still a bit constrained by characters and storylines that had been established during the collaborative period of the first two films. When he was able to ditch that and work with more of a blank slate, what he got was the prequels. And just as I’m sure the Special Editions better reflect what he wanted to create, I’m equally certain he likes the prequels better than the originals (all Lucasvision, no compromises from the very start) – otherwise he wouldn’t continue clumsily trying to remind the world that they exist (Maclunkey!)

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)