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4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 296

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JawsTDS said:

Harmy said:

Can that be done? And would it yield a 10 or even 12 bit image? That would be awesome!
As for whether this changes anything for Despecialized, yes, the change is that I will now definitely be waiting for the 4K Blu-Ray or at least a full bitrate 4k web-dl as a source.

If you’re asking if it’s possible to extract the flat image? Yes. The HDR grade is stored as metadata on UHD discs, so you can easily retrieve the flat image. As for the bit depth, I believe they’re all 10bit video files.

Well, technically it’s the HDR Output Display Transform (ODT) that’s included in the metadata, as well as the individual shot-for-shot metadata tweaks (HDR custom trims). But the grade itself is actually performed on the log level of the image, so the flat image still has a grade applied to it (just not the HDR ODT). In other words, the “log” image is a graded log image, but it just doesn’t have a contrast curve applied to it yet.

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JawsTDS said:

Finally, some 4K screencaps of THE PHANTOM MENACE, without the HDR grade. Looks super DNR’d, just like the Blu-ray.


Well, you are using one of the broken apps. The colors are all washed out. It looks nothing like that when I stream it through my chromecast. And after watching TMP, I would have to say that it is previous master, not a new one. The scan is identical and still full of all the same flaws.

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As has been discussed in the several posts above, those screencaps are minus the HDR metadata.

a trolling bantha

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These are more indicative of what the image really looks like.



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ChainsawAsh said:

As has been discussed in the several posts above, those screencaps are minus the HDR metadata.

And it is exactly what it looks like when I try to play on the Disney+ app on my TV. But not when I watch in a web browser or stream it through chromecast. I prefer to share what the image really looks like, not a partial and incomplete version.

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After reading this forum topic for years (A long time lurker who’s learned quite a bit about film restoration on this site!), I can’t believe that I actually get to watch the Reliance/Lowry 4K scans.

Been cheating by bumping up the color setting on my TV, but Episode VI looks so very monochromatic in some scenes (Normally DV/HDR material looks gorgeous on my TV) no matter how much I tinker around with settings.
I don’t miss the 04/11SE’s video game over saturated colors and crushed blacks, but I wasn’t expecting them to swing so wildly in the opposite direction.

On the upside? For someone who’s never watched the OT in anything other than 480p or less…the level of detail is astounding.

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yotsuya said:
And it is exactly what it looks like when I try to play on the Disney+ app on my TV. But not when I watch in a web browser or stream it through chromecast. I prefer to share what the image really looks like, not a partial and incomplete version.

There are some HDR to SDR converted stills out there now over at the Star Wars Trilogy forum, if the lack of tone mapping really sets you off that much.

I posted these “incomplete” screengrabs so people could see the full detail in the 4K image, FWIW. I do hope someone was able to properly compare them to the Blu-ray.

It’s a clear 1080p upscale to my eyes.

44rh1n said:

JawsTDS said:

Harmy said:

Can that be done? And would it yield a 10 or even 12 bit image? That would be awesome!
As for whether this changes anything for Despecialized, yes, the change is that I will now definitely be waiting for the 4K Blu-Ray or at least a full bitrate 4k web-dl as a source.

If you’re asking if it’s possible to extract the flat image? Yes. The HDR grade is stored as metadata on UHD discs, so you can easily retrieve the flat image. As for the bit depth, I believe they’re all 10bit video files.

Well, technically it’s the HDR Output Display Transform (ODT) that’s included in the metadata, as well as the individual shot-for-shot metadata tweaks (HDR custom trims). But the grade itself is actually performed on the log level of the image, so the flat image still has a grade applied to it (just not the HDR ODT). In other words, the “log” image is a graded log image, but it just doesn’t have a contrast curve applied to it yet.

Very interesting, thank you for the explanation!

“That said, there is nothing wrong with mocking prequel lovers and belittling their bad taste.” - Alderaan, 2017

MGGA (Make GOUT Great Again):
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-GOUT-Preservation-and-Restoration/id/55707

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Hal 9000 said:

Seems like most redone 2004/11 changes are no better or worse, with some being a bit better and some being a bit worse.

This is curious. I’m looking forward to checking 005’s new comparaison gallery. What is better and what is worse for example ? It seems the new sabers have reached consensus this time. Are the cgi dewbacks better integrated ?

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Dewbacks are an original '97 alteration and therefore the compositing for them is the same as it always was. Though I will say, it has not aged well at all. As for the recreated changes from '04 and after. Of the ones I’ve seen they all look a lot better, I haven’t seen one yet that looks worse.

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Stepping softly in a danger zone…

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The extended cell bay set backdrop looks more realistic in the 04 version to me, with the 19SE being a little closer to the 77 version.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Harmy said:

Can that be done? And would it yield a 10 or even 12 bit image? That would be awesome!
As for whether this changes anything for Despecialized, yes, the change is that I will now definitely be waiting for the 4K Blu-Ray or at least a full bitrate 4k web-dl as a source.

I will be greatly looking forward to those, Harmy! Will continue to enjoy your ESB 2.0 until then!!😃

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The Dianoga blink looks a little different?

i had lots of fun!!! : ) ❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍

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A question from a noob: These new 4K transfers, while one can see so much more detail and clarity, also look lifeless and drab, like a lot of modern films. Compared to the vivid and rich colors of Harmy’s Despecialized Editions (i.e. ESB 2.0, which reminded me a lot of of seeing the OT in theaters in 1977-1983) to these unsaturated colors of the new masters, these just look sterile and over processed. Why is that? Is it because too much HDR was used? Would appreciate any info given.
Many thanks in advance!😃

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So far, the screenshots posted look promising to me. I’m by no means a fan of the various incarnations of the SE, but to my eyes the new colour grading is a massive improvement on the 2011 Blurays.

Are there any comparisons online between 2011/2019 of the following?

  • ESB: Snow scenes on Hoth (curious to see how white/blue the snow is now).
  • ROTJ: Any of the shots which are out of focus on the 2011 bluray.
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JawsTDS said:

yotsuya said:
And it is exactly what it looks like when I try to play on the Disney+ app on my TV. But not when I watch in a web browser or stream it through chromecast. I prefer to share what the image really looks like, not a partial and incomplete version.

There are some HDR to SDR converted stills out there now over at the Star Wars Trilogy forum, if the lack of tone mapping really sets you off that much.

I posted these “incomplete” screengrabs so people could see the full detail in the 4K image, FWIW. I do hope someone was able to properly compare them to the Blu-ray.

It’s a clear 1080p upscale to my eyes.

While some have noted less DNR, I did some comparisons and they both share the same redish shadow tones and I really don’t see anything about TPM that indicates a new scan, unlike the OT, which all appear to be new. There is one OT thing they failed to change, the A long time ago card at the beginning is back to the original for the OT, like it was in the theatrical 97 SE.

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ESB and ROTJ use the 1980 and 1983 ALTA’s, I believe, rather than their 1997 counterparts.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

ESB and ROTJ use the 1980 and 1983 ALTA’s, I believe, rather than their 1997 counterparts.

Wasn’t SW the only one that was changed for 1997? Which means, TESB SE and ROTJ SE should have the originals since they weren’t touched in 1997? It’s been awhile so I don’t remember anymore… Otherwise it doesn’t make sense that they would’ve scanned only the titles from different reels altogether.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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More evidence that this version use the 1997 special edition as its base, with subsequent changes being re-created fresh.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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LexX said:

ChainsawAsh said:

ESB and ROTJ use the 1980 and 1983 ALTA’s, I believe, rather than their 1997 counterparts.

Wasn’t SW the only one that was changed for 1997? Which means, TESB SE and ROTJ SE should have the originals since they weren’t touched in 1997? It’s been awhile so I don’t remember anymore… Otherwise it doesn’t make sense that they would’ve scanned only the titles from different reels altogether.

I’m not sure, but that sounds right to me.

a trolling bantha

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Hal 9000 said:

More evidence that this version use the 1997 special edition as its base, with subsequent changes being re-created fresh.

Which was always going to be the case since the o-neg itself was conformed to the SE edit of the movie back in ‘97.

Btw, I guess this means the initial scan (before they redid the ‘04 and ‘11 changes) was/is the 1997 version exactly as it existed back then. I’m not going to hold my breath, but this does at least mean they’ve now got that version scanned in at the highest possible quality, not to mention roughly 80% of the unaltered OOT camera negative as well.

IIRC, there was a rumor several years ago that every last piece of film in Lucasfilm’s vaults were being scanned in and catalogued. Perhaps this 19SE is just the tip of the iceberg.

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Fang Zei said:

IIRC, there was a rumor several years ago that every last piece of film in Lucasfilm’s vaults were being scanned in and catalogued. Perhaps this 19SE is just the tip of the iceberg.

I definitely remember this rumor. IIRC, it came from a talk that someone at Fox was giving regarding their cooperation with Disney’s team post Lucasfilm sale? But that’s (I believe) how we found out about all the original elements and plates, etc. being kept and stored all this time.

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Btw this scan is the one Edwards told about during the making of R1. I remember I was 100% sure this scan was a SE and not the OOT…

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Or maybe Gareth Edwards was thrown off Rogue One for even suggesting such a thing exists… puts on tin foil hat

Yub Nub for life

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JawsTDS said:

Finally, some 4K screencaps of THE PHANTOM MENACE, without the HDR grade. Looks super DNR’d, just like the Blu-ray.


It’s definitely DNR’d, but to my eyes it’s not too bad. Your mileage may vary. I’d say it’s the most watchable I’ve ever seen this movie, past the original theatrical viewing. Very similar to the DNR used on Marvel 4K remasters like the Thor films and Iron Man films.