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4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 265

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SilverWook said:

It’s a 67 year old novelty then.

An old gimmick is still a gimmick.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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So are sound and color. 😉

And it’s weird that currently available Blu-Ray/4K players have 3D support, but you can’t find a 2018 model tv with 3D.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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LexX said:

SilverWook said:

It’s a 67 year old novelty then.

An old gimmick is still a gimmick.

I suppose sound and color and widescreen aren’t gimmicks since they actually became the norm, whereas even now 3D is only used on a small percentage of movies released each year. Many people don’t like wearing the glasses, paying the extra bucks to wear the glasses, and prefer watching their movies in 2D anyway. 3D has stuck around this time because it’s so obviously being used by the studios to squeeze a few extra bucks out of the people who didn’t get their 2D tickets ahead of time for (insert name of big franchise tentpole) on opening weekend. If they can figure out the glasses-free tech then I can maybe see it becoming more the norm, but that’s years away.

HDR, on the other hand, probably will become the norm a lot sooner than that, at least going forward for new releases. We’ve even seen it used on a few catalog titles already. It’ll be interesting to see how it gets used on I-VI and if they consult with George on the final grade.

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I fear HDR will become the new DNR, in that it will be excessively and poorly used.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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I guess I am in the minority …I have really enjoyed a lot of modern 3d movies over the past ten years . I like how it is more about depth and the feeling of being able to reach into the screen . Reminds me of the old view master reels but in motion . I saw the 75th anniversary edition of the Wizard Of Oz back in 2013 in Imax post converted this way and it was amazing . I really got a sense of the scale of the sets and the Matte paintings and felt more immersed in the world . I prefer this to the old analog 3d where shit just popped out at you and looked like cardboard cut outs , with a few exceptions …I did enjoy StarChaser The Legend Of Orin , but even then , I had to kind of squint sometimes to make it work .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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Wizard of Oz 3D was my favorite 3D experience, as the 3D was so detailed and the long takes allowed you to absorb the 3D in.

I’d love to see the original trilogy in 3D but only if it’s a good conversion. TPM and the Disney era films’ conversions very much disappointed me.

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This is what I’ve seen in theatres in 3D that I can remember off hand. Up, Toy Story 1 & 2 Double Feature (only stayed for the first though), A Christmas Carol (Jim Carrey version), Phantom Menace in 3D, Force Awakens. I think Last Jedi I saw in 3D as well but I frankly can’t remember at the moment. Funny since it’s the most recent of the films I just mentioned.

The only one where I kinda liked the 3D was Toy Story but I suppose 3D is likely more complimentary to Pixar animation than live action anyways. The rest I could give or take. I actually saw the 3D Force Awakens with my dad and I actually remember him saying afterwards that he didn’t feel the 3D added to anything.

Don’t have a 3DTV or know anyone who does. All around I could give or take 3D. If it has it cool, if not that’s fine too. Given that 3DTVs basically aren’t being manufactured anymore I guess I’m permanently stuck with 3D.

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Stores like Best Buy and Fry’s still have some 3D sets for sale. It’s remaining old stock and floor models.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

So are sound and color. 😉

No they’re not, unless you see in black and white or are deaf. People see colors and hear sounds outside cinema. Sure, we also see everything in 3D, but the 3D movies are artificially made to look like that from 2D and it’s all one big special effect, they’re not actual 3D holograms or live theatre. That’s just the lamest and oldest excuse if someone doesn’t like 3D that then there shouldn’t be sound either. 3D has tried 3 times in the 67 years and it has always failed, because it’s a gimmick and adds next to nothing to the story. Only Gravity has improved from it what I’ve seen, and many has agreed. But you’re right about that, that playing with colors is a gimmick. That’s why I hate how modern films look like, bunch of teal & orange with huge contrast and they change it every time you travel to another country in a film. That IS a gimmick.

I’m just wishing this whole 3D thing goes away so I can watch 2D versions on the big screen again. Aquaman was the first one ever to get a 2D release on the biggest 3D screen in a multiplex here. So I guess now is the turning point.

Edit: and just to make one more point, you can still film in B&W and without sound if you’d want to, and no-one is going to make you force to see them in color on the biggest screen or ask more money for it.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Hence the winky. You do know some movies have been natively shot in 3D? Sorry you live in an area where 2D screenings are hard to come by. I don’t think it should be forced on anyone.

I was recalling Siskel and Ebert’s dismissal of colorization, saying you don’t need to know what color things were in black and white movies. And Robert Wise once said something about stereophonic sound being a distraction.

Worth noting early attempts at widescreen and stereo sound were failures too. It was the rise of television that made studios desperate enough to embrace both in the 1950’s.

I’m still waiting for three panel Cinerama to make a comeback.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Hence the winky. You do know some movies have been natively shot in 3D?

That joke just hasn’t been funny ever, and I’ve seen you stating this before too so it’s just tiresome. And I do know, but it does not make them less a gimmick compared to sound or color.

And colorization of B&W white movies is a whole different thing, it’s up there with the SEs.

I wouldn’t say aspect ratios are gimmicks. They’re just ratios. That’s like saying a painting is better/worse because it’s wider. That’s just a standard and again, no-one is forcing anyone to use a ratio.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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New movies shot in 1:37 are a rarity these days.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Not sure if this is old news, but I came across this thread on thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com, and stems from late last year and early this year:

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/star-wars-4k.54414/

Somebody involved with Reliance MediaWorks explains exactly what has happened to the 4K restoration of the OT. It was in fact finished for all three OT movies, and not rejected by LFM as has been suggested in the past. Additionally the colors on display in the reel we discussed in the past were only for internal purposes, and did not represent a final color grading. Here’s the jist of it:

"Reviving an old thread; I’m not 100% sure of George Lucas’ personal involvement with the actual reviewing of re-mastered content, but ILM worked closely with us to restore the original Star Wars Trilogy in 4K.

For those curious, there was a budget, but compared to the DVD remasters we did a decade ago, more money was pumped into creating pristine masters of the original film scans. The remastered footage was completed around 2012, but unfortunately nothing has come of that since.

I can most certainly guarantee you that nobody else is re-mastering the original SW films at this point. I say this with confidence because there is absolutely no one in the industry with technology as good as ours. Mind you that at this point, our software technology ceased development 6 years ago. If that tells you anything about the slow advancements in technology industry wide. This is the main reason Lucas came to us to begin with. We didn’t do the color correction, we only color grade for our own internal purposes. Our outfit is the only place James Cameron, David Fincher and George Lucas, to name a few – would send their films to. Unfortunately, a side effect of good work is price and the industry is flooded with cheap automated systems restoring films. The price the consumer pays is generic 4K upreses.

In my opinion I can only assume that they are waiting for advances in color technology to really make the remasters “pop”.

Any questions are welcome, I’ll try and answer what I can."

“All we provided was a mastered scan of the original with full image enhancement. No audio, no color correction, no VFX work, only a pristine restored digital version of the original. It is highly possible that someone is working on the digital delivery that we provided, I never denied that, but for me to believe that someone else out there has re-mastering capabilities beyond what we’ve delivered is not credible. If someone else is doing a remaster from scan, I can only say that it is being done through an automated system to save Disney money.”

“I can only say so much, but I was a lead image technician for several titles that were restored and have yet to see the light of day, such as True Lies 4K (4K transfer restored around 2013). Star Wars was a collaboration between several senior image technicians at the facility named above. I posted on this thread because I did a search on Star Wars 4K and came across this speculation thread. I thought it would be nice if someone with some insight could shed some light on the matter.”

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And from another thread:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/a12nte/star_wars_ivii_4k_release_next_year/

I know it’s an anonymous Redditer, but a 4K release is an eventuality, and a release leading into Christmas and IX makes sense.

One can dream it will contain the theatrical when it happens, whether this year or later. There really is no excuse from a technical/financial perspective not to release the original cut when SW hits the format.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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It took almost five years, but we finally have some comments on this 4k job from the people directly involved.

Thanks for sharing, Dre.

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They’re talking about “the original”, but is it the original original or the SEs?

Anyways, without proper color grading and audio mastering they can still f it up, if it ever gets a release.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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I think it is likely Lucas had the negative and all the original elements scanned and restored. So, I don’t think there’s a version persé. There are masters from which the original and SE versions could be created, although I believe at the time he was mostly focussed on the planned 3D releases of the OT.

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There’s also Pablo’s insistence that these have been conformed to the current SE.

It sounds like they’ve at least archived every scrap of celluloid at their disposal, so it could be that unaltered scenes will appear in a deleted scenes section of the inevitable 4K release. I’m hoping that we get both the incomplete Jabba scene and the 97 version.

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DrDre said:

I think it is likely Lucas had the negative and all the original elements scanned and restored. So, I don’t think there’s a version persé. There are masters from which the original and SE versions could be created, although I believe at the time he was mostly focussed on the planned 3D releases of the OT.

The planned 3D versions were most likely why these new 4k masters were created, especially since we now have confirmation from someone involved that they were finished all the way back in 2012. George didn’t sell LFL to Disney until the end of October, so maybe he had the new scan done as a good starting point for the post-conversion before Disney scrapped it. It would explain why they’ve sat unused for almost seven years.

Like the anonymous former RMW employee said, it’s unlikely their work on the OT could be surpassed even seven years later.

4k 16-bit is about as good as it gets.

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LexX said:

you can still film in B&W and without sound if you’d want to

The studios sure will pressure you to do otherwise, though.

“Okay, I’m goin’, takin’ off. See ya… bye….” — Chip Douglas

“This concludes our broadcast day. Click.” — Chip Douglas

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I’m pretty sure it’s the theatrical versions, because all new effects shots (including all recomposed space scenes) would have been only at sub-1080p resolution, which would look worse on a 4k version than the original optical effects. That being said, this doesn’t mean we would get this and not the SE in the end.

In theory it wouldn’t cost Disney a fortune to have ILM re-render the new effects shots in 4k. Re-compositing all the shots involving live-action material might be a bit more work (IF they actually have 4k scans of the newly 1996-filmed material).

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Re-rendering 20+ years old CGI is nearly impossible : even if you could import your old files in modern rendering software, you’re pretty sure to have bugs, incompatibility problems, geometry errors, and so on.

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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ILM lucked out pulling the Phantom Menace Boss Nass model out of digital mothballs, and plugging it into their then current software they were using on Episode III, according to the commentary track.

Now it probably would be easier to start from scratch if they redid the SE shots. Between the sequels and Rogue One, they have nearly all the OT ships they need already rendered?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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I don’t think they have the ANH Falcon in any of the newer films though.

I guess recreating the SE shots would be a relatively easy task, if they could just salvage any of the camera and object animations of the old data. The shots themselves are much less complicated than what they are used to do today. Were they still using Softimage for the SE?

Anyway, re-rendering with updated models and rendering software would certainly open a can of worms and create just another SE.