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4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 251

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Oh crap, he pulled out an industry of people to side with him without listing any sources, that’s all folks.

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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Michael Ward said:

Frank your Majesty said:

I didn’t say it was easier, I said it was more comfortable for Lucas. With digital cameras, he could review any scene immediately without leaving his chair. The technical difficulties or the final result didn’t bother him too much.

This is an interesting thought.

I’d heard Lucas wasn’t really an actors’ director from his work on Star Wars (A New Hope), but I was stunned the first time I saw him sitting there on the set of one of the prequels drinking his giant coffee watching actors live on two TV monitors like he was filming a soap opera that had to get five episodes done that week. Isn’t there one behind the scene clip we he mentions sometimes he forgets to yell, “Cut”?

He wanted to build a film studio right on his property and film Episode 7 there before handing it off. Can you imagine? He would have directed in his bathrobe and it would be a good day if he remembered to close it.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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Handman said:

Oh crap, he pulled out an industry of people to side with him without listing any sources, that’s all folks.

Lol. Cute, but I ain’t here do homework for people arguing opinions over facts.

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lovelikewinter said:

Michael Ward said:

Frank your Majesty said:

I didn’t say it was easier, I said it was more comfortable for Lucas. With digital cameras, he could review any scene immediately without leaving his chair. The technical difficulties or the final result didn’t bother him too much.

This is an interesting thought.

I’d heard Lucas wasn’t really an actors’ director from his work on Star Wars (A New Hope), but I was stunned the first time I saw him sitting there on the set of one of the prequels drinking his giant coffee watching actors live on two TV monitors like he was filming a soap opera that had to get five episodes done that week. Isn’t there one behind the scene clip we he mentions sometimes he forgets to yell, “Cut”?

He wanted to build a film studio right on his property and film Episode 7 there before handing it off. Can you imagine? He would have directed in his bathrobe and it would be a good day if he remembered to close it.

Ok now that’s something I’ve never heard of. Where did you find that information?

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Not much of a stretch as there are post production facilities at Skywalker Ranch already. In all the bonus features on the prequel DVD’s showing work going on there, George was fully dressed. 😛

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Humby said:

Frank your Majesty said:

There’s a difference between presenting an innovation and using an unfinished technology in a multimillion dollar project.

Also, if you have to add “for a 16 years old [CGI] model” than it really doesn’t look that good. And TPM looks way better than AOTC.

Are we now excusing any poor decison of Lucas as being brave or innovative?

It seems to me that your distaste for the movies are keeping you beholden to the idea that innovation is only valid if it breeds perfection. But at the end of the day, that is not how innovation works, nor has it ever.

It’s not about perfection, it’s about being at least as good as the existing technology. I’m talking about objective technical benchmarks here, like resolution and dynamic range.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Frank your Majesty said:

Humby said:

Frank your Majesty said:

There’s a difference between presenting an innovation and using an unfinished technology in a multimillion dollar project.

Also, if you have to add “for a 16 years old [CGI] model” than it really doesn’t look that good. And TPM looks way better than AOTC.

Are we now excusing any poor decison of Lucas as being brave or innovative?

It seems to me that your distaste for the movies are keeping you beholden to the idea that innovation is only valid if it breeds perfection. But at the end of the day, that is not how innovation works, nor has it ever.

It’s not about perfection, it’s about being at least as good as the existing technology. I’m talking about objective technical benchmarks here, like resolution and dynamic range.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this is the first time you’ve mentioned any benchmarks at all.

Listen Frank, with all due respect, it’s not gonna help your argument. I’m a cinema camera and lens technician with experience working on Aaton and Panavisiom film cameras, I am currently certified in servicing Canon, Sony, Arri, Panasonic, and Red digital cinema cameras, and if you want to get into the technical aspects of sensor benchmarks and digital standards from the late 90s to early 2000s I am more than happy to.

At the end of the day, if you’d rather not get into it, I will gladly end the debate here. But out of my own interest in the subject, I am more than happy to get into more technical aspects of the issue if you’re so inclined. Cheers.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

I love the flickering, pale, imperfect lightsabers in Star Wars.

That said, a recompositing of the original film elements for an OUT wouldn’t offend me, but I also don’t tend to think it is necessary.

Edit: Also, interesting you mentioned Mike. He mentions in one is his videos (I think his restoration of the Death Star approach), that his work approximates what recompositing would accomplish, noting that that would be ideal. Even a purist like Mike doesn’t shy away from improving upon the O-neg so long as the original photographic elements aren’t altered.

Edit 2: I believe this to be the link:

https://vimeo.com/117582796

I think what ever happens next the Special Edition is basically for the scrap heap. Just for the Mos Eisley Comedy Dinosaurs part on it’s own it will be comitted to the grave. It’s had it’s time and needs to be Dead and Buried.

In terms of going back to the original elements sure why not… But also how many elements were shot that did not even make it in to the film. So it’s a double edged sword there. You could go another step further…

So I think Lucus needs to be consulted but he also needs to be realistic about his film that he made in 1977. Lucusfilm no longer need to present themselves as CGI effects house on the back of Star Wars.

I would not be opposed to a halfway house or semi specialized version even another version but Lucus does need to accept he went to far but it was not all bad but a lot of damage was done.

It needs to be sorted out with very obvious changes that were made that hurt of the film at the very least removed. But there was much more scope in the film for changes in better places than I had previously even realized myself that actually would restore a small amount original intention but they are at the end of the day quite minor. And the Special Edition was just a CGI shit show really apart from Yavin Battle, The Sandcrawler Model and a few updated matte shots which I don’t mind.

It would be easy for a branched Original Matte vs Updated Matte version.

I am not sure what it will be but anything other than a CGI Fest. Subtle changes are ok.

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Humby said:

Frank your Majesty said:

Humby said:

Frank your Majesty said:

There’s a difference between presenting an innovation and using an unfinished technology in a multimillion dollar project.

Also, if you have to add “for a 16 years old [CGI] model” than it really doesn’t look that good. And TPM looks way better than AOTC.

Are we now excusing any poor decison of Lucas as being brave or innovative?

It seems to me that your distaste for the movies are keeping you beholden to the idea that innovation is only valid if it breeds perfection. But at the end of the day, that is not how innovation works, nor has it ever.

It’s not about perfection, it’s about being at least as good as the existing technology. I’m talking about objective technical benchmarks here, like resolution and dynamic range.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this is the first time you’ve mentioned any benchmarks at all.

Listen Frank, with all due respect, it’s not gonna help your argument. I’m a cinema camera and lens technician with experience working on Aaton and Panavisiom film cameras, I am currently certified in servicing Canon, Sony, Arri, Panasonic, and Red digital cinema cameras, and if you want to get into the technical aspects of sensor benchmarks and digital standards from the late 90s to early 2000s I am more than happy to.

At the end of the day, if you’d rather not get into it, I will gladly end the debate here. But out of my own interest in the subject, I am more than happy to get into more technical aspects of the issue if you’re so inclined. Cheers.

When I say “the technology wasn’t ready” what else could I mean with that other than a purely technical comparison to analog film?

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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But Frank, no one’s saying that AotC is the most beautiful movie ever shot. Actually it’s probably the Star Wars that looks the worst.

But denying its importance is pure denial. Do you have to do it well to count as innovation? If it’s not really good then it’s not innovative?

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Is it worth to applaud innovations that are no improvement over established technology?

Yes, George did something new. But was it really an improvement? If any director switched to digital early because of Lucas and ended up with a movie that looks worse than it could be, had it been shot on film, then Lucas did a disservice to the industry.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Cmon, most films today are shot digitally. Shouldn’t that be enough evidence that it wasn’t a disservice to the industry?

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And that would have never happened if not for Lucas? I can’t think of any movies that decided to shoot digital as a direct result of AOTC in 2002.

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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Frank your Majesty said:

Is it worth to applaud innovations that are no improvement over established technology?

Yes, George did something new. But was it really an improvement? If any director switched to digital early because of Lucas and ended up with a movie that looks worse than it could be, had it been shot on film, then Lucas did a disservice to the industry.

This can often be the case with ‘innovation’, as well as any ‘invention’ really. A breaking of the eggs to make an omelette scenario. So what if the first front wheel drive Oldsmobile or first air conditioner was not a smash success, ultimately they got people thinking and moving in different, new directions which can be what innovation is really all about–inspiring others to venture into unknown territory. Kind of like Ridley Scott and his approach to Alien after the revelation that was Star Wars…

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They are shot digitally because the image quality finally approaches analog film. If Lucas simply put money into the development of digital cameras, I wouldn’t say anything, but I don’t see why he should be praised for using inferior equipment to make gis movie.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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I am just a dumbass who doesn’t work in any film industry related jobs, so i guess ignore me. But it sure seems like there are three points that are true.

  1. Lucas was a very early adopter of digital film-making and as a result, had to find a new way of doing things.
  2. Digital would have eventually happened even without Lucas, not to take anything away from him, but you can’t act like he CREATED it. He isn’t a god of film-making.
  3. The films are technically inferior because they used a technology that was not mature.

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We do have to remember innovator does not mean creator. Innovator just means they took something and took it to a different level. Going back to the original Star Wars. Lucas became an innovator of movie visual effects and storytelling but he’s obviously not the creator of either.

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dahmage said:

I am just a dumbass who doesn’t work in any film industry related jobs, so i guess ignore me.

Ok.

But seriously, I love how this thread continues to amaze no matter how far it gets from whatever the original topic was supposed to be.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

That said, a recompositing of the original film elements for an OUT wouldn’t offend me, but I also don’t tend to think it is necessary.

People on this site are the only ones I’ve ever seen that claim to be offended by recompositing the original effects. I don’t think they’re bothered by the TNG blurays though.

The Person in Question

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TV’s Frink said:

I love how this thread continues to amaze no matter how far it gets from whatever the original topic was supposed to be.

#rotjpigmen

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The documentary Side by Side covers this whole topic pretty well. It’s basically about how digital technology has changed every aspect of the film industry over the last several decades. Lucas and David Tattersall are both interviewed, among many others.

Tattersall makes an interesting analogy regarding the criticism at the time that they were taking a giant step backwards quality-wise by choosing to shoot Ep2 in digital:

“You’ve got to lean back in order to spring forward.”

It does bother me that AotC and RotS will never have the same unified look as TPM, the OT and now the ST, but it was George’s money being spent on the PT and he didn’t want several million dollars going just towards scanning in all of the 35mm footage on the last two prequels like he had to do with TPM.

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dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

I love how this thread continues to amaze no matter how far it gets from whatever the original topic was supposed to be.

#rotjpigmen

Oh my god I would kill for a 4k version of the OOROTJ that shows the pig men turning in for a nice long nap so as not to disturb the friendly Jedi who came for a visit.

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dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

I love how this thread continues to amaze no matter how far it gets from whatever the original topic was supposed to be.

#rotjpigmen

#original#rotjpigmen

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Help-me-settle-an-argument-does-Luke-use-the-force-choke/id/1286/page/1

😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

 
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