I think the smoke and mirrors lies with the theater. They just didn't want to admit they didn't know what version they were screening, if they were aware of the issue at all. A simple honest answer would have saved them a lot of trouble.
Where were you in '77?
emanswfan said:
Disney claiming a slightly modified 1997 version as the original would drive me insane. I really don't believe they'd do that on us. It would be much more work, but even if it isn't THIS release that is the exact originals, atleast sometime within the next decade they will.
If Disney is recreating the originals, then this would be a logical first step. Then you go back and find the original effects shots, either in negative or interpositive form and work them into a releasable effort. If we are getting them in 2015 that step might not have happened yet.
Ever since Disney bought Lucas out, their whole strategy has been one of "We're sorry for the Prequels and the Lucas insanity. Please go see Episode 7." They know the best way to get goodwill is the OOT. It will be the ultimate statement that Lucas' reign is over.
As long as a new fan is introduced to the OOT at every chance, we will survive. The new generation is our responsibility. They will come into Star Wars with Episode 7. The Prequel Generation is lost, and they don't matter as long as we get the new generation. Let them be the sad footnote in the Legacy of Star Wars and maybe we can save some of them.
It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher
I don't know what it is that I like about this statement of the prequel generation being lost and needing to focus on the EpVII generation... But I do like it...
SilverWook said:
Is anyone here going to take one for the team, and go see it?
I live in Alabama and would be there in a second, regardless of this whole situation, if it wasn't completely sold out.
Nevermind. I'll be takin notes, y'all.
So, do you know exactly what all to look out for, or will you be needing a crash-course from the group?
And most importantly: do you possess the proper attire?
jabba would be the big one to look for. If it's 2011 then there will be an extra rock covering R2D2.
Unfortunately, I don't have that shirt in particular, but I am going to try to make time to wash mine so I can wear it - I already wore it this week.
As for what to look for, I'll be specifically noting the fanfare, the beginning of the crawl, Jabba if he's even there, Luke's saber on the Falcon, the corridor of the detention block, and the language of the tractor beam settings. Other than that, the Mos Eisley and BoY CGI shots will be a dead giveaway. There's also that new rock in front of R2 if it's somehow kin to the BD. Coincidentally, I downloaded and watched Harmy's Respecialized earlier today, so I think I'm good. Anything else I should look for?
the added scene with Bigs in the hanger. Plus pretty much the whole Death Star battle too
I'm so glad we have someone on the case!
Harmy said:
I'm so glad we have someone on the case!
lovelikewinter said:
emanswfan said:
Disney claiming a slightly modified 1997 version as the original would drive me insane. I really don't believe they'd do that on us. It would be much more work, but even if it isn't THIS release that is the exact originals, atleast sometime within the next decade they will.
If Disney is recreating the originals, then this would be a logical first step. Then you go back and find the original effects shots, either in negative or interpositive form and work them into a releasable effort. If we are getting them in 2015 that step might not have happened yet.
If it is done this way, won't things be missed? I don't want a half-assed Despecialized. IMO a proper OOT release should be constructed entirely from pre-1997 elements to avoid any SE contamination. If the negatives are full of George's scribbles, wouldn't it be far safer to create them from an IP/print whatever?
Were there visual changes for the THX upgrade? I seem to remember something about matte lines being removed from the speeder windows?
I'm pretty sure, that the pieces of film added to the negative in 1997 should be recognizable not only by their content but also by their markings, so should they want to really do a proper OOT restoration using the negative, it shouldn't be a problem to identify exactly which shots have been changed.
Harmy said:
I'm pretty sure, that the pieces of film added to the negative in 1997 should be recognizable not only by their content but also by their markings, so should they want to really do a proper OOT restoration using the negative, it shouldn't be a problem to identify exactly which shots have been changed.
You're assuming competence and dedication on so many levels here...
Cataloguing all of the original elements properly I believe in. I've got some doubts concerning storing them properly afterwards. Giving enough of a crap to keep them that way for 20 years I just cannot see happening.
Call me a pessimist, but I've seen and read horror stories about film restoration. The original film elements are never in good shape, even if they were supposed to be handled well. It would be a pleasant surprise to learn that someone did indeed take care of them.
yoda-sama said:
I don't know what it is that I like about this statement of the prequel generation being lost and needing to focus on the EpVII generation... But I do like it...
Perhaps the idea of the PT fanboys -- most of whom are disrespectful, disingenuous assholes -- getting screwed over is just oh so very delicious.
lovelikewinter said: Ever since Disney bought Lucas out, their whole strategy has been one of "We're sorry for the Prequels and the Lucas insanity. Please go see Episode 7." They know the best way to get goodwill is the OOT. It will be the ultimate statement that Lucas' reign is over.
As long as a new fan is introduced to the OOT at every chance, we will survive. The new generation is our responsibility. They will come into Star Wars with Episode 7. The Prequel Generation is lost, and they don't matter as long as we get the new generation. Let them be the sad footnote in the Legacy of Star Wars and maybe we can save some of them.
When:
1. The OOT is released.
2. The three OT movies are marketed as "Star Wars", "The Empire Strikes Back", and "Return of the Jedi".
We can truly say, "The prequel era is over."
I think the prequels will be forgotten about soon enough. Most people already really don't care anymore, Star Wars fans or not. I also think Disney will just kind of let them be forgotten as well
DarthShackleford said:
Anything else I should look for?
Old Ben's Krayt call.
I wonder if the more subtle differences made to the '97 version - like the toning down of the violence - is part of the new "original negative" or if those changes were made after it was digitized. I assume (and hope) it's the latter.
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DarthShackleford said:
Unfortunately, I don't have that shirt in particular, but I am going to try to make time to wash mine so I can wear it - I already wore it this week.
As for what to look for, I'll be specifically noting the fanfare, the beginning of the crawl, Jabba if he's even there, Luke's saber on the Falcon, the corridor of the detention block, and the language of the tractor beam settings. Other than that, the Mos Eisley and BoY CGI shots will be a dead giveaway. There's also that new rock in front of R2 if it's somehow kin to the BD. Coincidentally, I downloaded and watched Harmy's Respecialized earlier today, so I think I'm good. Anything else I should look for?
I would give this article a read before you go
http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-one.html
m_s0 said:
Harmy said:
I'm pretty sure, that the pieces of film added to the negative in 1997 should be recognizable not only by their content but also by their markings, so should they want to really do a proper OOT restoration using the negative, it shouldn't be a problem to identify exactly which shots have been changed.
You're assuming competence and dedication on so many levels here...
Cataloguing all of the original elements properly I believe in. I've got some doubts concerning storing them properly afterwards. Giving enough of a crap to keep them that way for 20 years I just cannot see happening.
Call me a pessimist, but I've seen and read horror stories about film restoration. The original film elements are never in good shape, even if they were supposed to be handled well. It would be a pleasant surprise to learn that someone did indeed take care of them.
Not really - what I was saying was, that when we're trying to determine what was changed and what was not in this or that version for our own restorations/recreations, we have to actually look at the content of the frames and compare them closely to see if for example a particular shot was recomposited, which is a time-consuming endeavor, which involves a lot of guess-work and we could quite easily miss something and I don't see them (Disney, Fox, Lucasfilm) being this thorough anyway -- BUT if they wanted to recreate the original version from the 4K '97SE scan they probably already have by replacing the shots put in in '97 with something like an I.P. or even distribution print scan, they should be easily able to determine which scenes were added in '97 by the markings on the film - they wouldn't have to bother comparing the content at all, so in fact, it may well be easier for them to replace all the shots, which were replaced/added in '97 with some other source, rather than cherry-pick which shot to replace and which not to.
See, the funny thing is that if this dcp they're showing tonight is from a new 4k scan/master of the o-neg (which, as we've discussed over and over again, is conformed to the '97 version) and it hasn't at all been "re-altered" to reflect the changes from '04 and '11, the only real difference between this screening and other authorized screenings of ANH that happen all the time is that one is an actual 35mm print and the other is a 4k dcp.
The way they're raving about how good those 20 minutes looked, it certainly sounds like this is the new 4k transfer and not the old one from Lowry.
Don't forget the overwhelmingly positive reviews of the DVD/Blu-ray.Fang Zei said:
The way they're raving about how good those 20 minutes looked, it certainly sounds like this is the new 4k transfer and not the old one from Lowry.
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doubleofive said:
Fang Zei said:
The way they're raving about how good those 20 minutes looked, it certainly sounds like this is the new 4k transfer and not the old one from Lowry.Don't forget the overwhelmingly positive reviews of the DVD/Blu-ray.
Well, the DVDs and Blu rays don't look terrible As far as clarity. The main issue is really the coloring.