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23.976 to 29.97 fps - How do I do it without speeding up the video?

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Hey guys,

I know the majority of you video whiz-kids here on this board are from the states and I need your help. I hate NTSC with all its interlacing, pulldown, differing framerates, etc. However, I am currently putting together a DVD for a friend with some television shows capped off US TV. The framerate of the episodes is 23.976 fps. What I am trying to do is make a motion menu using some short clips from each episode for a chapter/episode selection menu.

I can follow the guide easy enough (I'm using this one here by the way). The problem is that the resulting menu always looks sped-up because the framerate gets changed from 23.976 to 29.97. I don't think I can have the video framerate be 23.976 though. So, I am asking for your help. Am I able to keep the video at 23.976 fps? Or, if I have to change the framerate, how do I do it so it stays normal speed? And finally, when do I make this conversion? Before running the avisynth script? Or after that but before converting the AVI to MPEG.

Please, encoding wizards and DVD-Lab masters, I humbly ask for your wisdom.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

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I hate NTSC also, PAL is much easier There are many different ways how to do it.
For example

1) In AviSynth use ConvertFPS(29.97), and then convert the script to mpeg2
OR
2) Use dgpulldown.exe and set with it the "pulldown flags". It will somehow ensure that the 23.976 stream plays at 29.970fps without changing the speed. It's I think called soft-telecine.
OR
3) If you're using DVDLabPro for authoring, you can import the 23.976fps clip and it will automaticly create the 2:3 pulldown for you

And I'm pretty sure that there are more ways how to do it, but that's for the NTSC guys
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Pittrek, thanks for the quick reply. However I need to bug you for more info on all 3 options:

1) If I wanted to modify my script how would I do so? I'm new to AVIsynth you see, this is in fact the first time I've used it successfully. Here is my current script:

#------------------------------------------------------
# 1 Load Menu Background & Mask
BackGround = AviSource("Background.avi").ConvertToRGB32()
Mask = AviSource("Mask.avi").ConvertToRGB32()

# 2 Load Clips
Clip1=AviSource("ep601.avi").ConvertToRGB32()
Clip2=AviSource("ep602.avi").ConvertToRGB32()

# 3 Start the Menu as a blank clip
Menu = BlankClip(Background).loop(600)

# 4 Size & Place the Clips
Clip1 = Clip1.LanczosResize(263, 220)
Menu = Layer(Menu, Clip1, "add", 255, 161, 231)
Clip2 = Clip2.LanczosResize(279, 210)
Menu = Layer(Menu, Clip2, "add", 255, 529, 240)

# 5 Mask & Place the Background
BackGround = Mask(BackGround,Mask)
Layer(Menu, BackGround, "add", 255, 0, 0)

# 6 Resize to D1
BilinearResize(720, 480)
#------------------------------------------------------

Where wouldI put the ConvertFPS command and how do I convert these AVIs (which are DivX/Xvid encoded) to MPEG2 with the script?

2) Do I use dgpulldown on the files before or after I run the script? On the AVI source files or the resulting MPEGs (after I run the script I convert the AVI to MPEG2 with TMPGEnc).

3) This one seems easy enough, but I suppose I'd have to convert the AVI source files to MPEG2, then drag them into DVD-Lab... and then how would I be able to use the AVIsynth script on the MPEGs?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm sure I'll be getting the hang of this avisynth thing soon enough.

Thanks in advance if you're able to reply with answers.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

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First of all, you have to do only one of that steps, not all 3. Select the one you like the most

If you want to do it with AviSynth, you can use the ConvertFPS command theoreticly anywhere, but in your case I would put it at the end of your script, so do it like


#------------------------------------------------------
# 1 Load Menu Background & Mask
BackGround = AviSource("Background.avi").ConvertToRGB32()
Mask = AviSource("Mask.avi").ConvertToRGB32()

# 2 Load Clips
Clip1=AviSource("ep601.avi").ConvertToRGB32()
Clip2=AviSource("ep602.avi").ConvertToRGB32()

# 3 Start the Menu as a blank clip
Menu = BlankClip(Background).loop(600)

# 4 Size & Place the Clips
Clip1 = Clip1.LanczosResize(263, 220)
Menu = Layer(Menu, Clip1, "add", 255, 161, 231)
Clip2 = Clip2.LanczosResize(279, 210)
Menu = Layer(Menu, Clip2, "add", 255, 529, 240)

# 5 Mask & Place the Background
BackGround = Mask(BackGround,Mask)
Layer(Menu, BackGround, "add", 255, 0, 0)

# 6 Resize to D1
BilinearResize(720, 480)
ConvertFPS(29.970)


You have to load this avs script into a mpeg2 encoder - CCE, TMPGEnc, HCEncoder or QuEnc. That encoder will produce from this scipt a DVD-Video compatible mpv stream, which you use in your authoring program.



In the case you want to use dgpulldown you have to first download it from http://neuron2.net/dgpulldown/dgpulldown.html. Then you take your FINSISHED 23.976fps MPEG, and use it to set the pulldown flags from 23.976 to 29.97. Sorry I have never done this, but most users prefer this mehod, so it's worth a try.



The third method uses DVDLabPro for DVD authoring. If you have your FINISHED 23.976fps MPEG, import it to DVDLabPro, it will ask you want to the the 2:3 pulldown, just confirm it.
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I ended up using the avisynth way. I still got the problem of it being recognised in TMPGEnc as 30fps though....

Then I worked out what was wrong. When I was exporting the backplate and mask from DVD-Lab as AVI files, it defaults to 30fps as the framerate. I tried to export them again as 23.976, but it seems DVD-Lab only allows whole numbers. Odd. Anywho, I simply opened those two files in VirtualDub and changed the framerate. Then when I ran the avisynth script, well, everything worked.

Thanks again pittrek for the quick answers. I really appreciate it.

Now I hope that this thread can be of some use to others.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

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"When I was exporting the backplate and mask from DVD-Lab as AVI files, it defaults to 30fps as the framerate. I tried to export them again as 23.976, but it seems DVD-Lab only allows whole numbers."

I'm pretty sure it's still exporting them as 23.976. It simply uses the simpler label.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Really? I used VirtualDub and found the file (the exported menu) to be 30fps, so I just changed the framerate. No big hassle, but just worth knowing.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

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Hmm, I'll have to try it again. I'm sure I've exporting 24fps video from DVDLab.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Okay, I set up a menu, and exported at 24fps (it won't accept 23.976, only positive integers), and when I imported to Vegas, it said 24fps.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>