.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *) — Page 5

Author: gltaylor74
Time: 11-Nov-2005 9:46 AM
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The THX optimizer is based on the individual movie, which means you really need to calibrate then for each movie, which is not practical. The early THX optimizers were tested by Joe Kane and he showed the patterns to often be wrong. I believe they have improved since then. I find them useful for those who don't have a good calibration disc, such as Digital Video Essentials or Avia. I did like you though and ordered a pair of the blue lens glasses from THX and then picked up digital video essentials.

Author: THX
Time: 14-Nov-2005 9:27 AM
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Zion,

how do those SC discs look by comparison to the others?

Author: Grinder
Time: 14-Nov-2005 12:16 PM
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Suckadelic (overall).

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

Author: THX
Time: 14-Nov-2005 12:31 PM
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Specifically by comparison to the US pre-THX ones?

Author: Grinder
Time: 14-Nov-2005 1:16 PM
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No compared to those they may look slightly better, but I doubt it. I've seen the US ones on my own LD player, and Dark Jedi's transfer of the SC set on DVD. And I didn't notice any difference. The LD was just a bit better, but that's because the other was a transfer to DVD, and that will never look as good as the original source. At least, no single transfer as of yet, has.

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

Author: RickWJ324
Time: 14-Nov-2005 7:16 PM
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This whole project is great... can't wait to see the finished product! I've done some transfers of the Definitive sets myself and have gotten lots of compliments on them. However, since I've been doing quite a bit of research on LD players recently, I've decided to upgrade my player and start over from scratch. I don't think I'll ever spend the $2,000 - $5,000 that the HLD-X9, LD-S9, or the X0 costs. I've looked into the CLD-79, CLD-97, and the CLD-99. I may be getting a CLD-79 tonight, and if I can get my hands on one I would like to get a CLD-99. That's probably as far as I'll go up the Pioneer chain.

I also just bought another Definitive Set of laserdiscs SEALED and will be using those instead of the used set that I currently have. I may be selling my used Definitive Set and my FACES set soon. I'll post them here first in case someone is looking for them.

As for menu's and DVD authoring, I've been using the Adobe suite for quite some time (Encore and Photoshop... I recently got After Effects, but haven't really used it). These programs are so much better than apps like DVD LAB (which I also have). I'm working on some really nice motion menu's right now (they look great!!).

Once I've made some progress with my latest conversions, I'll look into sharing them here. This project will also be on Dual Layered discs instead of the single layer that my last project was on.

Zion.... I'd really like to contibute to your restoration. I don't use Paypal since I was ripped off from them a while ago. If there are other means of contributing (including mailing monetary support directly to you) just let me know.

--RickWJ324

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 14-Nov-2005 8:18 PM
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"These programs are so much better than apps like DVD LAB"

But none of the programs you listed are DVD mastering programs.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Zion
Time: 14-Nov-2005 8:44 PM
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Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects are the programs I use for making DVD menus. You will find that After Effects has better quality transitions than Premiere, and the more technical things you want to do with your video can be done easier and more efficient with it. Master all three programs and you will have a very powerful package in your arsenal.

I have not yet compared sega's SC ROTJ to my US discs, but I should be doing some caps on my player tonight and have something to show you tomarrow.

Also, look for our newest article to be up within the next hour.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author: gltaylor74
Time: 14-Nov-2005 9:28 PM
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Sorry if this is off topic, but I'm wondering if there were seperate U.S. and Japanese pressing of the definitive collection set like there was the Faces set? I've been comparing my definitive set to my U.S. and Japanese Faces sets and I do think the Definitive has less noise and just looks better. The more frequent side changes makes it worse though. I believe my Definitive set is pressed in the USA. I was just wondering if there was a Japanese pressing of it and if so is it any better?

Glad to see Zion still hard at work on this project. Thanks so much. I use a Pioneer HLD-X9 through an Iscan HD+ scaler and the lasers look very good but I can't wait to see how good then can look via DVD!

Author: ivor
Time: 14-Nov-2005 9:37 PM
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Originally posted by: segaflip

Well I have an extra set of the Special Collection LDs for ROTJ that I am letting Zion take a look at. From there we will see how good they are.

Actually I also have an extra set of ANH as well, but the covers are slightly different

I have the SC ESB that I picked up in Japan for dirt cheap (like no more than $10), which would complete the SC trilogy with sega's extras. I'd be happy to donate it to the project. PM me if you're interested now or at any point in the future.

Author: RickWJ324
Time: 14-Nov-2005 10:04 PM
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Then what would you call Adobe Encore? Last time I checked, it was a top quality dvd authoring app... and a damn fine one at that!!

Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"These programs are so much better than apps like DVD LAB"

But none of the programs you listed are DVD mastering programs.

Author: ReverendBeastly
Time: 14-Nov-2005 10:09 PM
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Overall, I think that Encore is just a bloated program. It's 2.3GB for installation, compared to DVD-lab's 23MB, and I really don't see any major advantages it has over DVD-lab (aside from user-friendliness).

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

Author: Zion
Time: 14-Nov-2005 10:17 PM
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Article is up!

The thing I loved about Encore was the way you could import photoshop files as menus. I also liked how amidst the user-friendliness of it, you could still tap in and get to the code level if you wanted. I had the very first version, which wasn't very stable and I could never get it to import DTS. I would expect those problems to have been solved by now though.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author: RickWJ324
Time: 14-Nov-2005 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by: zion
Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects are the programs I use for making DVD menus. You will find that After Effects has better quality transitions than Premiere, and the more technical things you want to do with your video can be done easier and more efficient with it. Master all three programs and you will have a very powerful package in your arsenal.

I have not yet compared sega's SC ROTJ to my US discs, but I should be doing some caps on my player tonight and have something to show you tomarrow.

Also, look for our newest article to be up within the next hour.

Yes Zion... the Adobe package is quite nice! I don't use Premiere (that's primarily for capturing, right?). The project I've done so far has consisted of this:

1) Laserdisc connected to Sony RDR-GX7 set top recorder. Once video is captured to dvd, I rip the entire contents to the computer. I have several commercial apps that I use for editing and joining videos. This allows for totally seamless attaching of the multiple sides of the discs. Once I have a single video file perfectly edited I create timelines within Encore. Separate timelines for the actual movie, and other timelines for each supplemental file (bonus features, etc.).

2) Once I have the footage in Encore, I proceed to create custom menu's. This is where you can get really creative since Encore allows you to edit within the other Adobe apps (Photoshop is used quite a bit for the menus). I've created very nice motion menu's, including full chapter search menus with animated icons, sounds, etc. Also allows creating Easter eggs, multiple audio stream, subtitles, and lots more. ****When I wrote my last post and was corrected for my statement about it being BETTER than DVDLab, this is what I was talking about. DVDLab is a decent app, but it's not even in the same league as Adobe Encore and the other Adobe apps! DVD Lab is more user friendly, but once you know Encore in-and-out it is a great program!!

My last set of SW dvd's were decent: I was working with a Definitive LD set and a lower-end Pioneer player. I just bought a brand new Definitive set (still shrinkwrapped) and tonight I just purchased a Pioneer Elite CDL-79 player (it is in MINT condition and was purchased from a film producer's estate in West Hollywood). This is supposedly one of the best Pioneer players (with the exception of the CLD-99 and the infamous Japanese players: S9, X9, and X0) I'm also now going to be working completely with Dual layer discs to allow for better picture quality (Ritek Dual Layer Printable dvd's).

So... that's my project that I'm working on. I plan on sharing updates with OT.COM when I have something to post. I'd like to one day have my name added to the list of projects out there. Obviously mine won't compare to the X0 project, but I plan on putting out some great quality stuff.

And yes, the 1st version of Encore was buggy, but 1.5 fixed sooo many issues and is a very stable program. I had the first version as well.

--RickWJ324

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 14-Nov-2005 10:56 PM
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"Then what would you call Adobe Encore?"

Sorry, I didn't catch that one (although I don't use Encore, so I wouldn't know anyways.)

"The thing I loved about Encore was the way you could import photoshop files as menus."

DVD Lab does this as well...layers and all.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: nin
Time: 14-Nov-2005 11:10 PM
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Well, I think it's really time to drop the PAL LD question. There are no chance of getting a picture close to the NTSC version. How do I know this? Well, I have had 4 different CLD-925 and a DVL-909. I'm alos the guy with the HLD-X0 that was original used for transfer. Those player are really not even close in terms of picture quality. I would not hold my breath that the Theta player would be better either. I would think it have the same PAL "stuff" like the CLD-2950.

I have now two HLD-X0 in my set-up (and also two HLD-X9). What I understand there was some better quality when transfering the Japanese release from a HLD-X0 in Japan with composite and a slightly better card than the PDI card? Is those capture been used now?
If you guys need any more transfers let me know. I'm thinking about getting my both HLD-X0 totally serviced with new laser and all. That would give even better quality me think. I will try to get the service manual too because I have some friends that maybe could modify and tweak out even more from this player.

So if you have any question, ask me here or get in touch with laserman, he has my e-mail.

Keep up the good work!

/Mattias

Author: Zion
Time: 14-Nov-2005 11:15 PM
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nin, thanks so much for your help thus far. It's true that we got a better capture on our second try with a Japanese setup. I'm sure getting your players serviced and possibly tweaked combined with our modified PDI card and specialized hardware/software setup would make an even better capture. We'll definitely be in touch.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author: RickWJ324
Time: 14-Nov-2005 11:17 PM
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You have 2 HLD-X9's!!!??? WOW!! You want to rent me one for a while??

--RickWJ324

Author: nin
Time: 14-Nov-2005 11:30 PM
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What did you think was better the second time? Was it the same DC version or the Japanese release?
We did use standard PDI delux card with monster 3 s-video cable, but did you use composite out and tweaked the PDI card even more next time?
I really would like to know because I want my HLD-X0 to be as good as they can be.

/Mattias

Ps. I will soon get a really great new computer (800 GB hard drive) and I have rather fast connection, so one should not need to ship hard drives across the world.

Author: Zion
Time: 14-Nov-2005 11:34 PM
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Yes, we used BNC composite cables and a PDI modified with a BNC connector I believe. Laserman knows the specifics. I can't remember which version of the LD's it was, they were Laserman's also. The result was significantly less dot crawl and a slightly sharper picture overall.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author: nin
Time: 14-Nov-2005 11:40 PM
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Okey. Then I would guess my HLD-X0 is alright. The comb filter in the HLD-X0 is old and the one in the PDI card would probebly be better + using BNC instead on s-video DIN will also give better image. I have just got a PDI delux card, maybe I should try to modify it with a BNC input also, if that's rather easy to do?

Author: Zion
Time: 14-Nov-2005 11:43 PM
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We would have to ask Laserman. He is very adept in doing that stuff.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author: gltaylor74
Time: 15-Nov-2005 1:11 AM
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It may not be appropriate for this thread but I'm also willing to use my HLD-X9 to create captures if someone had the right hardware, software, and know how. I guess it would have to be local to me or send me the proper equipment as I won't ship out the X9. The X9 has been modified to produce a sharper image from it's S-video output and use it's internal 3D comb filter. It may be a small step down from the X0 in terms of basic video quality, but it also has a brand new laser, spindle motor, belts, and was setup by Duncan Hunter, who is the top laserdisc tech in the US. I agree with NIN that the new laser for his X0's would likely give better results as well, according to how many hours the current laser has on it. I'd love to see an X0 to compare with!

Author: Rob
Time: 15-Nov-2005 1:23 AM
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Just got the new newsletter. You guys are doing one heck of a job. I can't believe how systematically and thoroughly you are continuing to approach these transfers. Can't wait to read the next newsletter. Incredible work!

HARMY RULES

Author: nin
Time: 15-Nov-2005 6:24 AM
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Originally posted by: gltaylor74
It may not be appropriate for this thread but I'm also willing to use my HLD-X9 to create captures if someone had the right hardware, software, and know how. I guess it would have to be local to me or send me the proper equipment as I won't ship out the X9. The X9 has been modified to produce a sharper image from it's S-video output and use it's internal 3D comb filter. It may be a small step down from the X0 in terms of basic video quality, but it also has a brand new laser, spindle motor, belts, and was setup by Duncan Hunter, who is the top laserdisc tech in the US. I agree with NIN that the new laser for his X0's would likely give better results as well, according to how many hours the current laser has on it. I'd love to see an X0 to compare with!

Hi Taylor.

Well, I have comparied my HLD-X0 to my HLD-X9 a couple of times and to me there is no contest; the HLD-X0 is giving a more detailed picture, with better contrast range and a LOT less noise. I have here two frames that are exactly the same from both players. Save both on your computer and use a viewing program that you can quickly jump between the both pictures.
HLD-X9 [url]http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7342/hldx9ep10sx.png[/url]
HLD-X0 [url]http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4184/hldx0ep16co.png[/url]

Look at the aliens faces. Jump fast between the pictures and you will see that the X0 give a lot more detail. The contrast range is bigger also. Depending on your size of the screen you are viewing (have my PC to a rearview DLP 50 inch) you can look around the soldiers and see more noise with the X9.

And the X0 have a rather old comb filter, so I really understand that the guys got better picture quality with BNC composite to a newer comb filter. That one reason I'm really looking forward to the Crystalio II (only BNC inputs, high-end 5-line 3D motion adaptivecomb filter) so I can use it better comb filter.

The HLD-X9 is a GREAT player, I should know I have two of them. It is the best two-side player ever and much better than other I have seen. But to me, the HLD-X0 are better and they choose the right player for this project.

/Mattias