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.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *) — Page 4

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" Well, my first question was about the raw capture. Is it just one of the sets or a combination of sets already spliced together?"

The entire raw capture is just the Definitive Collection right now, but we are looking to augment it with captures of similar quality from other sources. This is why funding for more LDs and players is necessary - hence the slowdown. We're having to pick and choose how to get the best bang for our buck.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Sorry, Observer, I meant your second question (D'oh!)

FYI, the SC discs are pre-THX, but that Citizen clip sure convinces me they're worth using due to temporal smoothing/smearing.
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I agree. It looks great. I would think a capture of the SC discs would be ideal because then the X0 team would be able to decide how much smoothing/filtering to use instead of being stuck with the current levels on the DC discs and working around it. This is coming from a guy who doesn't have to worry about finding/purchasing such discs though...ha.



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Wow, there's quite a substancial difference in that clip than i would have thought. The colours and rock detail are loads better.

If you guys are short of funds you should get cracking with this t-shirt design competiton. I already sketched a few ideas out and have started designing some dvd covers. Probably jumping the gun a bit but i've got plenty of free time at the moment.
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I have to say that clip speaks for itself The temporal smoothing is worse than anywhere in the "R2 in the valley" sequence. Maybe there could be benefit from using some SC footage. But bear in mind that aside from the previous comments, the SC also has a LOT of artifacting. And I forgot to mention that - just as the color - the aspect ratio is all over the place.

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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Guys, keep in mind that although the pre-THX LDs have more detail in certain places due to the temporal smoothing, what they suffer from is a huge difference in color, and lot more noise - which is not something the X0 can eliminate since it comes from the telecine transfer. Take a look at this screencap I did of my three US sets:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6963/image61nk.th.jpg
Full-Res

These are not captures from the X0, but from my Pioneer 704. They were captured using the exact same settings with no filters applied. You can see the differences in the color obviously as well as the black levels and overall amount of detail. The SC set would be the best resource to use for shots where the crappy temporal filtering is worse than the crappy pre-THX transfer. It would also help with the starfields. But as you can see in a relatively still shot, both the Faces and Definitives blow it out of the water.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Definately got a point there... Pity there isn't a silver bullet solution for this sort of thing...
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Originally posted by: mstrchf

If you guys are short of funds you should get cracking with this t-shirt design competiton. I already sketched a few ideas out and have started designing some dvd covers.
Probably jumping the gun a bit but i've got plenty of free time at the moment.

Great to hear! There's no question we're going to need some more fundage if we plan on capturing more than just the Definitives and parts of the Faces sets. Things like obtaining the SC set and more hard drives to store the capture files on is beyond our abilities at the moment.

We are currently mulling some things over as far as merchandise goes, and I'd expect the t-shirt design contest to start soon.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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I would imagine for the project to go forwards there would need to be an injection, on my last two months on the project I spent over $1000 of my own cashola on it, but even if I was still involved, I can't work anymore, so there wouldn't be ongoing funds coming from me either way. (Unfortunately having to spend each day waiting for my turn to lay under the big ray gun doesn't fit in too well with earning an income).

This will be my last post for some time, so good luck to everyone, and a great big thanks to everyone who sent me their stuff on discs to watch, it really does take your mind off it all.

It was an unexpected, but much appreciated kind gesture from the fine folk on this forum, and I'm looking forward to watching them all.

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

Goodbye.

-Laserman



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Originally posted by: zion
Take a look at this screencap I did of my three US sets:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6963/image61nk.th.jpg
Full-Res

But as you can see in a relatively still shot, both the Faces and Definitives blow it out of the water.

But also remember the Faces and Definitive video has been through some edge enhancement too, couple that with the temporal smoothing and that's why it has the illusion of looking sharper. If you were to do the same cap of this frame from all 3 versions you'd see what I mean:

http://www.haku.co.uk/pics/StarWarsLDjaggy4.jpg
http://www.haku.co.uk/pics/LukeCruise.gif http://www.haku.co.uk/pics/dontcare.gif
***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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Take care of yourself Laserman. I wish you the best and pray for a complete and speedy recovery.

I have some good news on my front. I am scheduled for an interview with the company I'm hoping to become permanent with instead of an independent contracter within the next two weeks, so that is a step in the right direction. I also have a computer contracting firm looking I'm in talks with in case things fall though. I plan on donating to the X0 Project once I get back on my feet. Right now, I have to keep the money I've saved up for bills unfortunately.

Since the colors and noise levels are an issue with the Special Collections, it may be worthwhile to skip them for now unless someone can let you borrow them. They may help in small areas, but I guess it comes down to cost vs. reward. You mentioned they could help with the starfield shots, but it looks like you have them pretty well taken care of. I would really like to become more familiar with the program Shake that was mentioned in the first newsletter.

What sort of supplies are you guys looking for? Do you have all of the other LD's you need besides the Special Collection set? What size hard drives are you looking for? What interface do they have to be? Is there any other software or hardware that you are looking for? Once I get straight it would probably be easiest for me to donate monetarily, but I may be able to send a hard drive if they have some good deals going.

Thanks

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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Hey, I have a suggestion. On the website could you list all of the software you are using for the restoration and a brief description of each program? You could put up links to download the software if it's freeware or a link to the software developers website. It might be a good subject for a newletter if you run out of ideas.

If you are willing to do that you could also include a list of the special equipment you are using (besides the LD player).

Just a thought. After all, this IS an educational project.
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Thanks for those comparitive caps, Zion. I see your point about colour/noise. I hope you find this current batch of analysis/discussion of what you guys are doing helpful rather than annoying. After all, it's your project and you can do whatever you want with it. I suppose we're all expecting you guys to produce the (ahem) definitive DVD version, so it's nice for us to imagine we can contribute in ways other than the occasional donation. Anyway...

All things considered, it seems as if the best results might be obtained with a combination of the DefCol, "Faces" and SC sets.

Given Citizen's comments, it would be interesting to see a comparison between pre- and post-THX frames after you've cleaned them up and colour-matched them.

The other point that seems pertinent is to establish whether the SC is visibly better than the US '89/'90/'92 set which is apparently from the same transfer.
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Mailed the LDs out today, should be there in 2-3days.
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Whoah! Did I miss something? Segaflip, are you referring to the SC LDs going to X0?
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I agree with THX. Even if it's just for a few clips like the one Citizen posted, I think it will be worth it. It's time to bury these infamous clips that everyone complains about...especially the ones with smoothing problems. I think the SC discs are the solution.

If Segaflip is talking about mailing the SC discs, that's mighty generous of him. Thanks, Segaflip.
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I don’t know whether you guys still have access to the X0, but if you do (and I know it’s really a Star Wars project) maybe it would be worthwhile using it to capture a few other laserdiscs that we know will NEVER be released in the future. Like the original THX-1138. None of the time consuming post-production work would be necessary, but I’m sure a lot people would appreciate simply a good clean capture.

Anyway… just something else to think about. I know you’re too busy at the moment, and the money is being stretched.
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Originally posted by: THX
Whoah! Did I miss something? Segaflip, are you referring to the SC LDs going to X0?


Well I have an extra set of the Special Collection LDs for ROTJ that I am letting Zion take a look at. From there we will see how good they are.

Actually I also have an extra set of ANH as well, but the covers are slightly different
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It has been brought to my attention that certain video experts may inadvertantly perceive our monitor calibration article as a legitimate professional way to calibrate your video system. I would just like to point out that this article is aimed at those who would otherwise skip this essential first step in their video project. By no means is it meant to be taken as gospel as the best way to calibrate your system, nor is it the way we calibrated our own equipment. In fact, the first paragraph of the article says this: "Ideally, you would use a colourimeter to perfectly calibrate your PC monitor and your Broadcast monitor/TV, but you can get very good results using test patterns and the right technique."

Only a professional with the proper calibration tools can perform a full calibration of your system. However, if you are not a professional and/or lack the tools to perform such a procedure, this article does a great job of explaining the basics.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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I think I came off a little strong in my last post. Those of you who contacted us about the incompleteness of the article were absolutely right to do so, and I hope no bad blood has been shed. You guys actually made us realize that we need to do a better job explaining who our articles are aimed at -- the casual hobbyist, not the expert professional -- and explain where the differences lie in what the articles teach and what we're actually doing with our own equipment. So if nothing else, thank you for that.

I'd love to hear some feedback on this article from anyone who has read it.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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It was great advice for people who want to adjust their home theater center without paying a proffesional. I appreciated the article.

However, I think everyone is more interested on how your [proffesional] techniques affect your project. That's why the past newsletters have been so much fun to read. When the progress of the project is absent from a new article it seems a little boring.

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I've never heard of turning off all the color before setting contrast and brightness but I'm going to try it out. Also it's important to turn sharpness or picture all the way off on your TV because it actually distorts the picture. The way I set my TV was using the THX thing and some THX blue filter glasses off their website which I got free with a t-shirt but you can also get by just paying $2 shipping. Do the instructions on the THX work just as well as the ones you gave? I've heard that the THX actually adjusts the picture for the movie you're watching and not a universal correct calibration. I also have always worried that there instructions for setting contrast is wrong. Anybody know about this?