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.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:. — Page 6

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Crack is bad ok?
I have no other excuse for M3 being such a bad cut. I just noticed I have a scene on the Hammer where someone says the machines will be in Zion in 20 hrs, and then I cut to Locke saying 12 hours. Um, ok that was a fast 8 hours.

Please don't judge that cut of the film...

Dr. M

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So here's the deal. For those of you that have seen the Xvid releases or been closely following the latest ups and downs know of my grotesque failure with M3. My latest plan is to take the Smithification of Seraph (formerly the lead-in to M3) and tack it on to the end of M2 (just before the Oracle's assimilation).

M3 now has a new lead off that smooths out the plot of the film and timing of events. The day/night cycles within the Matrix make a little more sense now as well.
The question is: does this work and does it feel right?
I'm not sure anymore so here is another clip (4.9mb) for those that care to give me input: http://rapidshare.de/files/17942606/M3Intro.avi.html

Right now, all the opinions I can get are important since I feel this edit slipping away into the world of nevermind.

Dr. M

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There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying.

The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Pick a nice day, it suggests, and try it.
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I'd meant to post more recently, but with connection probs and friends in town(couple more days), I haven't had time for more viewings. Saturday night into Easter day should be good for me to spend time on silly, entertainment perversion(i.e. good stuff). Hope you can wait cuz I *always* have something to say
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying.

The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Pick a nice day, it suggests, and try it.
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Originally posted by: Ell the Ewok
Please say you removed the line that makes it sound like the Smiths Gang Raped Sati
What did you do with Sati?
Cookies need love like EVERYTHING does...

Its probably not ment that way but like all my friends you'll now think it everytime you see it.


Interesting take on that line though it never made me think Smith gang raped Sati. I always took it for what it was right from the start.
1000 Word Migraine
www.1kwordmigraine.com

An off topic site for an off topic world!
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I keep second guessing everything I'm doing now and putting off working on it.

I'm down to two or three clips that I either need to put in (at the expense of either pace or (possibly) continuity) or cut completely out.
For those that saw M2, how would you feel about the addition of Seraph being Smithed at the end as well? I liked the snappiness I gave the ending that the original cut lacked and I'm afraid adding more will weight it down. If I don't move this clip there, it's gone from my edits (not that it's critical to the story).

Treeswing: If you are referring to watching M3, I really really mean it when I say there are some real problems that I'm working on for v2. Hence the new lead-in. You may want to wait for the new version before saying 'ick' to that one (though the general order of events won't change and the last hour is pretty much set).

Btw, I'm thinking down the road when I pull the Xvid torrents, I may try again with a couple of KVCDs. I'm not really a huge fan of the VCD thing, but mpg is non-interleaved and shouldn't have the sync problem the avi file has. I've seen surprisingly good things with KVCDs and it should be compatible with many/most standalone DVD players.

As far as the Sati attack. I don't think he meant literally about the gang rape thing. It's just a matter that the dialog is icky enough to be misinterpreted (especially if taken out of context).

Dr. M

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I am cautiously pessimistic, but I just might be ready to test burn and sit through v2.0 of M3...
I'd still like to see if I can find a line of Keanu saying "yes it is" or "It's over" to slide in. As such I'm going to watch Constantine for the first time tonight (though I would even if I didn't need the line).

Dr. M

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Hi, first off let me say really really good job. Not perfect, but its a vast improvment on both films. Especially Revolutions. I've watched Reloaded once now and Revolutions twice so I could try and give you a semi informed opinion. I like the way 2 ends and dont see much of a need to show Seraph at the end. I think it ends well where it stands and Seraph might make it too long. In terms of part 3 I really didnt mind the opening. It seemed as a way to show that Smith was intent on not just taking over the oracle but everyone in the matrix. I also though it was onimous when the lights starting going out, I felt it worked with the voiceover. As I said it didnt bother me and set a more ominous tone. But it's your call.

I would however like to see a better shot and possibly a line of dialog if possible for Neo jacking in to the matrix to fight Smith. It just kinda happens, and the shot of Neo is really quick and doesnt show him paticularly clearly. I would possibly re-use the shot of Neo jacking in from Reloaded at 1:40:32 (at least on my dvd player). It's quick but you can see his face. More importanly, maybe you could use the 10 second from Revolutions from 43:36 "There's something wrong with the Matrix" to 43:46 "This can't be good". This footage would be inserted right after the end of the shot with Evil Bane on the table in a coma and lead into the shot of Neo jacking in to the Matrix. That ten seconds of dialouge makes it sound like Smith has overtaken the Matrix so it fits well right before the fight with Agent Smith. You would have to cut the scene with everyone but Neo talking about finding Niobe from 07:14 - 07:38 in your version, but I think it would make more sense and you still have the sceen later when someone says "we found the logos" so it isnt all that necessary.

There is also a really hard cut to Sati after the fight as the matrix rebuildes itself (the shot with the black cat). Actually I just watched it again, it is less of a hard visual cut than a hard audio cut from the music showing the new oracle to a music cue when the shot of the cat walking by begins. Maybe you could just have the shot of the cat start a second later so the music doesnt change that abrubtly.

No real problems in the middle I think you made the Zion fight SOOO much better. After the war I get why you used the rave sceen as it is actually them celebrating victory as opposed to the Reloaded's celebrating that they're all going to die, but it still runs too long for me. Maybe you could fade out the music and image earlier. Just too much dancing. The dancing is at :91 seconds right now, which is pretty long. I'd make it :35 seconds instead.

Finally, when the Hammer picks up Neo from the machine city there is a shot of the ship flying by followed my Neo in a coma. It's and odd shot transition with a noticable music change. I have a possible suggustion. In the Flight of the Osiris from the Animatrix there is a shot from 4:31 in to 4:34 of a ship flying outside on the surface. You cant see any humans so it really looks just like the films. With these extra three seconds of footage you have both an outside establishing shot (which could easily be taken as the outskirts of machine city) as well as a few seconds that you could use to fade the music by inserting it between the end of the existing Hammer fly-by shot to Neo in sick bay in a coma. Just a suggestion. I havent tried it or anything, so who knows if it would work in the end. There's also another Animatrix "ship only" shot from 4:20-4:23, but I'm not sure how useful that one is.

I think thats it. Again really good great effort. I loved the first Matrix and it killed me how bad the trilogy ended up. Your telling of the story works much better and makes a lot more sense. Especially what you cut out, like Neo having powers in the real world. I also enjoy that you relagated Smith to more of a Darth Maul type bad guy that is taking care of earlier in final film. The war is with the machines not Smith. Smith is a bad ass who gets in the way of winning the war, but he is not the war itself like the orginal Revolutions made him out to be.

If you do any more versions please still put up the divx copy. I'm in Los Angeles, so I wont be getting a DVD anytime soon, and my computer and xbox media player has the ability to adjust the audio sync on the fly so it isnt a problem for me. Dont over think your edit too much, it's already better than the original Revolutions. Like most editors you will probably alway find something you want to change forever and ever no matter how many fixes you make. Keep up the good work.





I can't promise I'll try, but I'll try to try.
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I had one more possible thought for having a visual of Neo getting picked up at the machine city. There is a over head shot of Neo and Trinity's ship flying over three powerlines real slow right before they get attacked approaching Machine City. It's at 1:01:26 - 1:01:30 in your version. If you have the Animatrix outside ship shot and then moved the overhead shot after it, it might work. Not sure but its a thought.

You could also cut from the dancing/celebration to trinity holding neo's hand in the coma. After trinity says "I'm staying with him" and the nurse leaves then show the ship flying over the power lines (or your orginal fly-by) followed by a cut to Morpheus saying lets look for Neo in the matrix. Might make it flow better, might not. Hope this helps in some way.
I can't promise I'll try, but I'll try to try.
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Wow, thank you for the input.
I agree with a lot of what you've said and some of it is already taken care of, some I tried to convince myself was ok (even though I knew it wasn't).

Rethinking the opening with Neo looking for the Oracle, I've decided there isn't enough action to open the film, so I'll go back to the Seraph one.
I'm also going to move the hall scene (looking for the Oracle) to after Neo jacks in so we have a better explaination why he's gone in.
The extended jack in... check, if you blinked you missed the old one.
Trim the rave? Possibly, I haven't sat through it straight though in awhile so I haven't judged the pace, but it's likely to happen (sweaty dreadlock guy is first to go ).
I really intended to give the impression that you might actually be seeing the Logos at the end (Trinity would have brought Neo home) since the Hammer was seriously banged up (but the Logos only took moderate damage in my edit). But I actually like the idea of giving the impression that they went to retrieve Neo and Trinity in a hastily patched up Hammer... hmmm. I'll have to think about that.

Btw, would you be able to play a KVCD instead of Xvid? It's just a variation on the VCD standard, optimized for better quality and some filtering to improve compressibility. It's not 100% compatible with the VCD spec, but most stand alone DVD players are fine with it. It would also mean no one would have sync issues.

As far as the abruptness of the jack-in the only thing useful I found was Morpheus saying "The Oracle must be consulted" from M2, but he's using his speech voice so it sounds out of place. Hence I figure just showing him looking for the Oracle may fill the lack of audio explaination.

Dr. M

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Looking again, the Seraph opening really is far superior, the problem is as great as the voice-over is we sort of need Neo to hear it.
I was thinking of keeping the VO on the hallway walk of Neo and removing it from the opening, but I REALLY like it at the opening.
Sigh. This is a tough call.

Dr. M

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No problem, gald to give the input. You did all the hard work. First off, to answer your question I perfer Xvid over KVCD as I stream everything to my TV through my Xbox Media Center so I dont need to play it on a DVD player, and I find the quality to be better. Also I didnt encounter the sync issue with Revolutions, only Reloaded and it doesnt go out of sync until Neo meets the oracle in the park to the end. Up until then its in sync, and as I sadi, no sync issue with M3.

For the opening I perfer the original one as you did, it's not perfect but I think it works better then the other clip I saw and I actually think it works well to set up whats happening. I still think it has a nice ominous feel for the opening of the film.

In terms of Neo jacking in right before he fights Smith, I saw you used a second or two from Reloaded to show him jacking in, but even though I knew it was Neo jackin in, I though there might be a clearer shot of his face when he jacks in. But for me I just think the dialog works better with what I posted earlier then everyone talking about the looking for the Logos before the M3 Smith fight. It sets up that there is something wrong with the matrix before Neo goes in to fight Smith (i'm just going to cut and paste this from my previous post cause I'm lazy) "the 10 seconds from the original Revolutions from 43:36 "There's something wrong with the Matrix" to 43:46 "This can't be good". This footage would be inserted right after the end of the shot with Evil Bane on the table in a coma and lead into the shot of Neo jacking in to the Matrix. That ten seconds of dialouge makes it sound like Smith has overtaken the Matrix so it fits well right before the fight with Agent Smith." This is already convienent because you had already cut the original 10 seconds I mention here out of your cut so you can use it without reporposeing anything. To me it fits the the setup a little neater and I think it might work well with your idea of moving the hallway sceen as well.

I'm glad you liked the idea of the Hammer picking them up at the end. It would be sorta implied that its the Hammer, but to me one of the first things that happens when peace is declared in war is that you get to pick up you dead and wounded, so I think it kinda fits and it shows the war is truly over.

Hope all is going well.
I can't promise I'll try, but I'll try to try.
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I'm a bit confused what I'm doing now. As much as I'd love to make it look like they took the Hammer to rescue Neo and Trinity, the logistics are kind of crazy. If I was shooting the movie, that's exactly what I would do, it's great. But no matter how many calls I make, the cast just won't return my messages, the bastards. (Carrie-Anne went and brought up that restraining order again too.)

I had softened the crash of the Logos so you could believe they could fly her home, the same could not be done for the Hammer (too much would have to be cut). The Hammer was absolutely totalled by the end of the movie. To assume they could repair it well enough to fly it, pick up Neo and Trinity (assuming they could find them in Machine City not knowing where they were there), and wouldn't try to salvage the Logos just seems wrong in my head.
If you want to think that's what you're seeing, I'm all for it, I just lack the footage to make that happen so I'm not going to use a Machine City pass of the ship.

Could Trinity have dragged Neo back to the Logos, returned to Zion for minor repairs and then all go out patrolling with Neo on board because they didn't feel much like dancing? Yeah I can handle that.

I will make some other tweaks though. Not exactly as Han described, but the jack-in is a little more logical and less fast paced. I've also removed (sigh) the voice over at the opening for use later.

Han Solomente: was your complaint of the audio transition from the Rave to the ship shot, or the ship shot to the lab?

Dr. M

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No problem with the Hammer, I'm sure once you get to editing there are million reasons why you just cant do it with only the DVD's to work off of. It didnt really bother me, more of a suggustion, so no big deal. It's gotta be tough wanting to put something in the movie but not having the materials for it. But I guess thats what this whole edit is about. I actually kinda assumed it was just another random ship that was never mentioned that had been patched up post-war.

To answer your question though, the cut I was talking about was from the ship shot to the lab. Logically the way the movie is now it feels like it should be the Logos returning for the reasons you mentioned, but visually I assumed it was another ship simply because of the other people on board in the ship that you see post fly-by. As you said "Could Trinity have dragged Neo back to the Logos, returned to Zion for minor repairs and then all go out patrolling with Neo on board because they didn't feel much like dancing? Yeah I can handle that." You would think they would have dropped a severly wounded Neo off at Zion, not gone back out with him in a coma once Trinity returned to Zion. Those silly kids. That said I can handle it too.

The transition from the dancing was fine, although I'm going to stick to my guns that the dancing was about a minute too long

I'll be curious to see what you're going to do with the opening now without the voice over. Best of luck with that. I'm looking forward to seeing the next cut.
I can't promise I'll try, but I'll try to try.
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Truthfully it could have been any ship. I just made it the Logos in my mind since I figured if it could bring Neo back it was at least still flying. It could be whatever they built from parts they could find of all the ships. Maybe a new ship where the 3 captains share responsibility.
It's not actually very critical.

I agree it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to be flying around with Neo, but I think it's going to be 'fill in your own answer' type thing. I can't come up with a better plan that I can actually pull off.

As far as the opening, it's the same Seraph scene just with the V.O. removed. The V.O. is now used a little bit later in the film (very similar to the alternate opening I posted).

I will allow for a trim to Zion. Editing and zipping through it, it's not long, but it shouldn't be 1-1/2 minutes.

So the complaint was that the transition from the ship to Neo/Trinity holding hands? I can tweak that a bit.

Dr. M

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"I'd still like to see if I can find a line of Keanu saying "yes it is" or "It's over" to slide in. "

Might I suggest "Chain Reaction"?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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You have a specific scene in mind or was it just a suggestion that the line might appear there?

Dr. M

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The latter one.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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So the current situation is this: I have editor's block.
I love the idea of showing Neo being brought home (explicitly) but there is no footage I can use to show it. I even tried flipping Horiz and Vert of a clip of a ship following the powerlines. But like just about every shot of Machine City it's too short (and looks funny). There's nothing long enough that can be used as an establishing shot.
I'm trying to think my way around this. And if I go this direction there's a few other supporting changes I need to make.

Also, I've got a line on a possible "it's over" line. The Watcher, according to an online script shows Keanu saying it (probably in a menacing tone). It's been a long time since I've seen it so I don't know. I should be able to get my hands on the film in about a week to check.

Dr. M

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Have you looked at the movie Constantine for lines? The movies based on demons and it has a very dark story so I know there has to be some lines you could use.


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Can you give some examples of lines you would suggest Marvolo?

Currently just before Neo brains Smith/Bane in TRW, Smith/Bane says "It isn't over Mr. Anderson". If I cut that line, it's a bit jerky and looks a bit darker for Neo (the line seems to encourage him to finish it).
The problem is that it IS over, all Smiths are now defeated in my cut.
You can either surmise it's an empty threat or a bad edit. I was hoping to pop in the line "Yes it is" or "It's over" from Keanu when he swings. Constantine doen't have anything helpful (that I noticed).

[Edit]
Clip removed.

Dr. M

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So everything else I've tried to do lately has failed.
That is:
To make it further look like Neo is being brought home from Machine City (there is no exterior shot long enough to use (or re-use)).
Additional of a voice-over or footage to explain that Neo is jacking in looking for the Oracle (too rushed of a pace or suffers from voice-over-overload).

There is still some hope for the audio clip of Keanu saying 'It's over' but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I have managed to clean up a few audio edits, removed the opening voice over, and extend Neo's jack-in before the Super Brawl to improve the pace and logic of events.
It's better, but still not completely what I want. I'm waiting for the DVD of the Watcher for the audio clip so if no further ideas present before than you'll just have to fill in a few blanks on your own when watching. The pace should still be entertaining.

Btw, I haven't trimmed the rave at the end... yet(?). Out of context it didn't feel too long, but I'll decide after I rewatch the film in it's entirety.

Dr. M

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I don't know of any specific line of dialouge right off the top of my head except "welcome to my world" and "that is called pain, get used to it". If you dont mind waiting till tomorrow I can get the movie and watch it to check for lines that would work.