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So another delay...
Dr. M
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:. — Page 5
So another delay...
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<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>
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Dr. M
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Dr. M
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Matching the GOPs lengths prevented the hitching between cuts, but occasionally I get a serious probelm.
Between the end of a re-coded clip (CCE) and a DVD Clip the video is rejected by DVDMaestro. That would be ok, there are alternatives, but watching the edit with media player causes a speed up right at the edit point. A DVD created within Womble freezes a standalone player.
I tried matching Field Top First (which I would think means nothing on progressive video), I tried fixing the GOP lengths, I tried closing all GOPs, nothing seems to prevent it.
Edit: Also tried encoding with the last frame forced to an I frame.
Dr. M
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Boon, don't get me wrong, input is good. Can you give me pointers on how to fix some of what was wrong?
I didn't get anything wrong, Dr.M, it is great you want input, even if it isn't all positive. I cannot give you THE answer to what was wrong and to how-to-fix-it, most of the time it's just a feeling that you get, that something is wrong. Since we have been playing so much with sound lately, I find there a source of many things that were kind of unfitting or unsettling in your edit. When you mix two scenes, you might have to resound them from scratch, instead of mixing the audio. This is a hell lot of work, but the result can be excellent. And sometimes, when no one says the important sentences, then you may have to say it yourself (we did this a few times already and no one has yet criticized it or maybe not even really realized it, which would be even better) or find a quote from another movie (in DOOMED BY THE BOOGEYMAN it is actually Ed Harris that is shouting "nooooo" when Tim is sucked into the door). Since you are experimenting (and I love it that you said it), you should maybe try that. What you really need is a test audience. People that watch your edit with an open heart and tell you what they think. Unfortunately willing test audiences are hard to find and cannot be used more than once for the same movie. What strikes me is that I have no idea how your edit would have been for me, if I had not worked on the Matrix sequels myself for so long. I feel pain when I see the rooftop heart massage scene... and then I am far from watching open heartedly. One more thing: don't forget about the stupidity of the audience. We all want to be just entertained (at least I do). The audience does not want to think to much but wants to be told what happens, so there should be answers to almost everything. Star Wars is a good example there, you don't need a brain to understand the story, but it is great entertainment. Your cuts were sometimes very rough and it felt like plotholes inbetween, where information was required. Now if Revolutions - Hacked will be even more experimental I fear for the fun in watching it, but actually I want to see your vision. Isn't it possible to make it more of an entertainment movie?
Nothing about fanediting is easy.
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Maybe I'm too close to it and know what I did. (At least in the case of M2) I felt if nothing else it was less complicated than the original version.
Btw, I always loved the jump-starting of Trinity's heart thing. Nice fx and good symbolism to go with it. It was in fact one of the things when I watch the DZ version that I immediately wanted to put back.
Dr. M
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Nothing about fanediting is easy.
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While I was at it I tweaked the audio in a few places just to avoid the possibility any pops. It should be fine all around.
So what am I saying? What I'm saying is if you get over to Demonoid.com and ThePirateBay.org you will find that the Revolution will be Bitified!
Cheers to you all who have been silently watching my anguish and put up with my bitching. Another day or two and the DVDs go out as well.
If anyone who formerly told me they wanted discs has changed their minds, please let me know ASAP.
Btw, I have noticed a slight sync problem in the Matrix 2 Xvid. Trust me that is not on the DVD.
In fact the Xvid of Revolutions is pretty badly out of sync by the end. As a result I balanced the frame rate (23.978 fps) so the beginning and end are bang on and the middle will be slightly out of sync. I probably should have done the same with M2, but there was a lot less problem there.
It would seem even with 100% film source and 100% direct stream copy, Womble still screws around with the frame rate. At least for all the extra work the re-encoded scenes are a million times better looking and there is no stuttering on stand alone units.
Consider the Xvids a taste, but if you want sync, you need to go DVD. Sorry.
Dr. M
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Neo talks about it, Trinity refers to it, and even Smith can't stop thinking about it. It's fairly central to the film and yet if you hadn't seen the first movie, you'd be completely in the dark.
I'm glad you enjoyed the first installment and I really hope the final part is as well received.
I'm not as pleased with it, but I can't fit it into my vision any better. It is a fairly agressive edit.
Dr. M
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Btw, anyone out there handy with the cover art thing? I can do it, but me terrible eye for color and lack of skills with art software tends to make it a prolonged project with so-so results.
The Matrix font is fairly common around the net and would probably come in useful. Any offers?
Also, proofed Reloaded again today. I can't believe as much as I've worked and watched these films I'm still enjoying them (/me pats self on back). Tweaked a couple points to clean up audio transitions.
I'd love to do something for the knock on the door by Smith at the very beginning (the shadow lengthens and then KNOCK, it's fairly abrupt). I tried several alternatives for cutaways and such, but everything comes off worse rather than better. In my estimation it might be the worst edit in the whole film.
Ok, will start proofing Revolutinons again later and burning discs tomorrow. I am a perpetual optimist.
Dr. M
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ell-the-ewok.com
Fighting the frizzies, at 11.
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Doctor M. It rocks. I might as well throw away my original now. I actually had no problems with the quality. Maybe a couple of sound edits were a tad rough but nothing that made me wince. Great work and well done for making a disappointing movie much more watchable.
Looking forward to the Revolution.
And the DVDs.
Nick, I'm one of the 5 names so PM me and I'll get you a disc.
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If you can remember any of the rough edit points, let me know and I'll try to fix them.
I tweaked nearly a dozen of them since the Xvid though. Some are better, some can't be better. I still could have just not noticed some.
Dr. M
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I tried to do a final QC tonight but was completely dissatisfied with the first half hour.
Neo's reason for jacking in seems tenuous, the Matrix being overrun with Smiths seems a little too quick (but could almost be believed), the transition into the rebuilt Matrix seems a little too quick, there's a nasty sound before Bane gets confronted at the conference table (I can't get it out because it hits over his first sentence), Neo in his room has that abrupt looking up with meaningful music (for no particular reason).
I'm feeling like I should rip this apart and re-cut it, but I don't know where to go with it.
I do like the whole Battle of Zion and the Hammer coming in hot. I think that came out 10x better than the original.
I'm not sure I like Bane's last line of "It isn't over Mr. Anderson" since it's really an empty threat.
The end although not perfect isn't so bad, and probably can't be done much better without some serious added CG work.
I'm low on ideas and horribly burned out on this project. I think I'm going to sleep on it. I think the problem is Reloaded came out far above my expectations and this is somewhat below it making it seem far worse.
I've been toying with the idea of scrapping the complete retooling of the plot and just doing something similar to Reloaded: editing for themes and ideas, not the story. Unfortunately that still leaves Trin dead and Neo probably dead. I just don't want that.
Dr. M
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Does anyone know/have an audio clip of Keanu Reeves saying "It's over", "It is over" or "Yes, it is" in such a way that would fit as a follow up to Bane/Smith saying "It isn't over Mr. Anderson"?
Dr. M
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First of all, I appreciate your humble attitude towards this. Painful it may have been for you, but I see you learned a lot as you went along. I think you did a fantastic job with this. Just imagine what you could do with a full team of hollywood experts at your disposal.
My feedback for you is as follows:
There is very little of what you cut that I missed as the movie progressed. You have a very good eye for what was extraneous. Exceptions are how you removed the other "ones", but left the scene with the architect about the selection process for the new Zion; and Neo asking Trinity to stay out of the Matrix, but leaving Neo and Morpheus's surprise at her being in it. Both somewhat minor, but it jumped out at me.
What bugged me a bit more is what you didn't cut. Three scenes which I have always had issues with. 1) The Oracle talking about "programs mis-behaving". As much as I love her and her character(and wish there was more of her just because of her perfection for the role), this feels like a director taking time to explain something just to make sure that your average stoopid American doesn't get lost. In this case, just a cryptic hint would have worked far better, especially for rewatchability. 2) The orgasmic dessert in the Merovingian's restaurant. Nice effects and all, but I would rather see it in the extras on the DVD. 3) Last is a big one that I generally hate in *all* movies: Neo removing the bullet from Trinity. In all likelihood, it would be this that was the final cause of her death. It *should be* common knowledge that bullets are often left in their victims as removing it could/would cause more damage than leaving it in. Keep in mind that only the last one really get's on my nerves enough to make me cut my palm with a curved blade.
Yes, the Oracle/Smith scene was clumsy. Thinking more about it, I can imagine what a difficult part this would be to work with. I would have just cut less as there is quite a bit of back-story that I feel is good for the story. IIRC, you weren't happy with the outcome either. No worries though, it didn't hurt your edit much overall.
My biggest issue was the sound, again, something I think you struggled with. Only the first third did I notice the sound not being completely sync'd, especially the Seriph/Neo fight through to the Neo/Smith fight. After that it seemed to get better. But the worst part of the sound must just be the encoding. Don't know what settings you settled on(I'm not a ripper, so I can't make suggestions), but either not enough passes or needed VBR(is that possible in Divx?). A LOT of the sound-heavy scenes got that boomy-crunchy degradation. It certainly is something that happens with a lot of single disc encodes, though. Just a price you pay for so much compression, although I've watched a few movies where this effect was much diminished. Maybe in the future for your xvid releases(and these ones will certainly get most of the viewers from D/Ling) you could double the quality and do two discs? This is how my Matrix Trilogy on my computer is, and I wouldn't have it any other way
Sorry I jump in here at the end and give criticisms which can't be changed :\ You've really done a neat thing here and I applaud you for adding to my enjoyment of the series. You re-edited a gigantic major motion picture BY YOURSELF, and it came out 90% awesome *applause*
I will try to write something up for RevolutionsH also, once I get some time to watch it.Thanks again
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To those who got DVD's, could I perhaps get one from you when possible? I would love to copy this and pass it around to my Matrix-geek friends as well as having a copy with good sound. PM me if this would be possible(rather than me stabbing around trying to find you.
The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Pick a nice day, it suggests, and try it.
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I removed the bits about the other Ones because I hated it. I almost removed the rebuilding Zion, but it still works. This is the first and only time this has happened. The Matrix up until now has just been building towards it. No one says it's happened before, it's the deal the machine are offering them for survival of human kind. It's the remainder of the equation, another form of control. The Machines planned for it from the start. It deflates the whole prophesy. You're reading what you remember into the dialog. Don't forget Zion is absolutely swarming, the machines would never accept that. It's such a hard to accept offer to start with, Trinity's life just pushes the balance way over into the "go to hell" category.
You had me going for a minute, I had to double check: at 1 hr 20 minutes or so, Neo does ask Trinity to stay out of the Matrix...
I really wanted to cut the programs misbehaving, it seem so cheesy listening to it again. The problem is the convoluted conversation finishes with "the source, where the path of the one must end." Without that you can't explain the point of the films.
Cutting it meant no explanation for the Merovingian and his superskilled freaks too. I agonized over it and tried some permutations of an edit there, but I couldn't get the Oracle to talk sense without it. It was a trade-off. Just cover your ears and hum when she mentions aliens.
Orgasmic dessert. I always thought it was one of the Merovingian's few redeeming scenes. Sexy and fun. It also fills the plot in between him going to the bathroom and Persephone being pissed at him for cheating on her.
I agree about the removing the bullet thing, but hey... it DID kill her. She coughed up blood right afterwards and died.
Just cause he's the One doesn't mean he knows medicine.The sync problem is the variable frame rates. It's fine on the DVD. I used AutoGK for the encoding, only because I manually did it with VirtualDubMod and Razorlame several times (not knowing the framerate to be the problem). I finally gave up hoping an automated program might be more successful. I personally would have been happier with better quality on the Xvid too.
The DVD aren't out yet which brings me to the point...
I'm not sending them for a bit. I've spent all day today with cards listing scenes from M3 and rearranging them.
Don't watch M3 unless you want to see a rough cut! I'm embaressed by how bad it really turned out. The first half-hour will be redone to play smoother. I think the middle is perfect and the end, while ok, is about as good as I can make it. The beginning is plain jerky and things happen inexplicably. I considered yanking the torrent but I'll re-release 2.0 when it's done. Things are just delayed... again.
Cheers again. I'm happy for the input. There's just so much to the films, I don't think I'll ever be 100% that I've got all of the intricacies perfect. I've developed real respect for the writers. What seems to be overstuffed drivel is actually all watch cogs. It's damn hard to remove one and keep the damn thing ticking.
Dr. M
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at 1 hr 20 minutes or so, Neo does ask Trinity to stay out of the Matrix...
My bad. Guess I FF'd out of the fight scenes a bit too far(figured you didn't edit them, and I've seen em all recently)
Orgasmic dessert. I always thought it was one of the Merovingian's few redeeming scenes. Sexy and fun. It also fills the plot in between him going to the bathroom and Persephone being pissed at him for cheating on her.
My bad. Guess I FF'd out of the fight scenes a bit too far(figured you didn't edit them, and I've seen em all recently)
Orgasmic dessert. I always thought it was one of the Merovingian's few redeeming scenes. Sexy and fun. It also fills the plot in between him going to the bathroom and Persephone being pissed at him for cheating on her.
True, true.
About the Oracle/Smith scene. If you are still reworking things a bit, can I suggest to make it more solid? The camera cuts were jerky and felt awkward, especially when she raises her glass to Smith. All nitpicking about scenes not cut, or encoding issues, it's the only point in your hack that really falls apart for me. Maybe starting with a longer shot of the oracle, then allowing Smith his monologuing and cutting straight to the virus scene? Not sure what else she needs to say there. Smith's response to her bastard comment of "You would know, mom" is a great line and I don't feel it should be cut. It also backs up her being one of the original designers(or is that not what you wanted?).
Hope you don't mind me just jumping in cold here and giving advice when I barely know anything about your project except for a quick onceover of this thread and a single viewing of M2H.
Looking forward to a final M3H. Would you like me to offer feedback on that as it is, or do my insights not feel particularly useful to you? (Don't worry, be honest)
The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Pick a nice day, it suggests, and try it.
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An establishing shot was discussed, but I couldn't locate anything usable.
The smoothness may be a result of frame rates shifting in the Xvid since I never noticed it on the DVD. I did redo many edits in M2 (including that scene) with cleaner encoding (without the editing software making crap of it.) So it'll be cleaner but not different in content.
Keep the input coming. Since I've yet to actually mail a disc it's not to late to fix anything seriously borked.
As far as M3, please hold comments if you watch it (at least about anything that takes place up until Neo/Trinity leave the Hammer). I'm redoing the first 30 minutes (or I'm saying I am anyway).
I must have watched myself into a coma or something, I can't believe I thought it was ok originally. Dr. M
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What did you do with Sati?
Cookies need love like EVERYTHING does...
Its probably not ment that way but like all my friends you'll now think it everytime you see it.
ell-the-ewok.com
Fighting the frizzies, at 11.
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Treeswing really got me thinking, I'll be attempting to cut ghost, angels, etc from the Oracle speech again. I don't know how it'll work in the context of the rest of the film, but I never liked it.
Edit: Bah, no matter what I trim of the conversation it doesn't stand on it's own if you don't know what was cut.
You need her talking about programs acting properly. You need her talking about programs to be deleted (because that tells of exiles and the source (where he must go)). If you cut what's in between out, you have to know what programs hacking other programs means or understand about programs that aren't acting properly (which except for Smith we haven't heard of/seen before).
It's a little too tightly integrated.
The best I've gotten so far:
O: The ones doing their job, doing what they were meant to do are invisible, you'd never know they were here.
The other ones, well...
O: Usually a program chooses exile when it faces deletion.
N: Why would a program be deleted?
...
It cuts out the bad ideas, but it seems like an abrupt transition and leave you to fill in some pretty big blanks. You'd need to understand she means exiled programs stand out as not belonging (i.e. not invisible). It seems a pretty big leap when a couple clang-y sentences can fill it in.
For now the ghost, etc. will stay unless someone can chime in with a good answer about this scene.
Dr. M