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.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:. — Page 4

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It's not a bad continuity error. There are 200 worse ones in Pretty Woman alone. And anyway it's ALL A PROGRAM OR SOMETING LOL

But to fix it, don't show him eating that last olive. Cut on whatever frame first shows the olive, and run his audio over the two following closeups of the other bad actors in the scene.
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Dr M, When i first read your post regarding the olives, i actually had to go back and read it again, because i had thought that your intention was to imply that he eats the last olive, realizes he has no more olives, shakes his glass and then has more olives, kind of a showing off his power in the matrix that he can 'get more olives' whenever he wants.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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OCPMovie: brilliant idea. They are so stone faced you can't tell a recycled long shot from a new one. Works like a dream.
I don't know why it didn't cross my mind, I did the same thing to remove the Trainman from that scene.

Ok, it's in.


1 more set of discs? Anyone?

Dr. M

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Sorry about no comment for a couple days, but the project _was_ done and ready to burn.

Then I got a cunning plan to improve re-code quality and make the disc 100% film so a divx could work.

This involved:
Taking a clip that involved a transition effect or was cropped/reencoded with CCE.
Exporting it as a stream copy (without the transition) or just using the raw clip in the latter case.
Removing pulldown flags.
Moving back into Womble as 23.976 video. Adding back the transition/effect if there was one.
Exporting it re-encoded as the software required to match the official DVD video.
Adding back the pulldown flags.
Reinserting the clip into the edit.

Got that? Visual quality did NOT improve on the recodes. After spending a few hours doing 4 clips like this (there's about a dozen for each film) I had a transition come up very short of it's original length after doing this.
I packed it in...

Currently I'm burning all the first discs as we speak. I did find a problem that no-one might ever see but I need feedback on.
On some of the areas were Womble did it's Womble-y thing, a standalone unit I tested it on coughed.
Don't get me wrong PowerDVD is just fine with it and the standalone is a fairly old (and quirky) Sony.
On M2 it was just a short fraction of a second hiccup in music during a transition. On M3 I found a line of dialog that went out of sync.

That's just what I saw in a casual look at the scenes were I know there's re-encoding.
I'm sending these discs out anyway because I can't judge standalone compatibility against that unit.

If there are more reports of this I might have to go back to what I was doing last night. I need not say that it will be some serious work involved in getting that to work right.

It's more important to get these mailed than to do a lot of work that might not be noticed by anyone else.

Dr. M

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Is there a Divx file in the works or did I misunderstand your post?


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I dunno what's up with the way Womble works. With the film and video framerates mixed that leaves few options (problems syncing the audio in an avi file).
I tried a lower quality encode using 30fps. It looked crappy (because you're actually encoding the pulldown frames and then deinterlacing them). Still out of sync.
I even read a bunch of guides and attempted (several times) to create a variable frame rate (hybrid video) mkv file. Don't get me started on that.

This project is pissing me off now. I've watched it on my PC (as a DVD image) and it's great, but getting it anywhere else is murder.

I killed 4 hours tonight trying to fix the worst hiccup where the line of dialog goes out. It created even worse problems (the movie cuts off 30 minutes early now).
I'll take another stab at it tomorrow, but I don't know what to do.

An Xvid/Divx version is indefinitely in limbo and I have 5 M2 discs burned and 3 of the M3 discs. I want to fix the worst of the problems since I'll bet I won't be alone. It's just been that kind of project.

If the stupid software synced the 24fps video to the audio to start with I wouldn't be having these problems.

Dr. M

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I spent the entire day working on this.

Short of a 100% frame for frame reedit, there's no having this as pure film.
If someone is handy with Xvid, you have my blessing to try to release some variant of this. I'm not ruling out a full DVD torrent, but that would be realllllly sllooooowwwww from me.

The major hiccup in matrix3 drove me nuts. That's the main thing I was working on.
It looks like it's a croped clip that went funny.
It was encoded CBR at 9200kbps with CCE SP (7pass) (knowing Womble would want to re-re-encode it). Bitrate view shows the peak bitrate to be around 12000kbps (no kidding). When MVW did it's pass on it, it was suppose to keep a max rate of 7500kbps. But bitrate view shows the clip peaks out around 9875.
THAT's why the standalone is choking on it. I suppose I'm going to have to try a new crop of that clip and see if I can keep the rate under better control.

It also means I have to watch ALL recoded regions on a standalone to make sure this isn't happening anywhere else. (Cough small glitch in M2 Cough).

I'm going to say this again, I can't make this perfect.
Maybe in another 7 years I'll redo this, but for now I just want to fix the worst of it all and be done. I am sooo sick of this project and Womble's crappy software.

Dr. M

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I tried an edit of M2 and M3 a hile back and I used the new version of womble. It is Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD and you can extract your file as a DVD ready to burn. I did not have any kind of trouble like this. Have you tried right clicking on the timeline and changing the frame rate? This should fix any sinc problems you have.


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For some crazy reason unless I keep the video with the pulldown flags at 30fps, the audio does not sync with the video (in the editor).
I would have preferred editing the whole thing at 24fps.
Some of the problems I'm having though are with it's mpeg encoder. I have transitions and fade outs being generated by MVW that requires a re-code.

Dr. M

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So I had a plan so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a weasel.

And so far, it looks like it's working. (Btw, if you don't care about the tech stuff, move along)

It turns out that when I cropped and re-encoded clips even if I was matching the avg and max bitrates there would be a jerky-ness with occasional macro blocks or breakups between clips from different sources.

The answer was so simple I missed it. I was using CCE with setting templates I had built from Doom9's recommendations. The problem is that uses GOPs that are different than the Matrix trilogy uses. I was using M=3 & M/N=5 (N=15). The DVDs were using M/N of 4 (N=12).
I wouldn't have even thought that could cause a problem but it did. I did a test scene with my clips re-encoded that way and I matched the avg/max bitrates as well. I also tossed in a little unsharp mask in to help hide that it's an enlarged and cropped.
100% direct stream 24fps goodness with nary a hitch. It's 10x better than what I had.

A couple more days of work ahead, but it looks like I'll be able to ferret out all of these and make this pure film.

I think I see a light.

Dr. M

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Originally posted by: Doctor M
So I had a plan so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a weasel.
Are you a Blackadder fan perchance?

Glad to hear you're hopefully getting this sorted. These problems always turn out to be something simple.

where have i been all this time ?
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I ran into a few audio sync problems with Womble when I tried editing the Lord of the Rings films. As Marvolo mentioned, the Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD (which has a 1 month free trial available on the website) spits out DVD files free of sync errors. However, putting the output video & audio files through a DVD authoring program resulted in errors. One way of getting around this (though it may degrade the quality of the audio) is to import the output video & audio files back into Womble, zooming in to the end, and noting the number of frames the audio was off by and also calculating the # of seconds of both the video and audio. Then, I brought the audio file into a separate program (GoldWave, btw), noted the running time it reported (for some reason, it was usually different from the length Womble stated), and worked out a ratio to find the number of seconds the audio should be according to GoldWave. Then, I used the time warp feature to get it to the right length. I then brought the new wav file back into Womble and it synced up brilliantly. Of course, this method probably degrades the original audio and so it may not be an option for some.

As far as audio hiccups went, I would try encoding it several different times, each time maybe overlapping audio clips more and more and fading them into one another until audio pops disappeared. Still, most of my methods seem like cheats. But it works for me since I'm not an audiophile.
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Sorry, I guess I was unclear. The audio sync errors are only when trying to generate an avi file (since the framerate is variable). The DVD is pristine (on a PC).

As far the issue with the standalone player: between a large number of close together re-encoded frames in both 30fps and 24fps, I think there were just some spikes in the bitrate causing the hardware to choke (but a PC has no issues with out of spec bitrates).

Anyway, I finally decided that this is going to be a clean 24 frame video no matter what. I spent all afternoon and all this evening exporting clips, adding and subtracting flags. Hunting down clips used, re-encoding clean with CCE using the proper GOPs.
Fade outs were still done in Womble but under 24 fps, flagged for pulldown and exported back into the project. The same goes for some titles.
There's one dissolve I spent hours on before trashing it and exporting the 2 clips.
I ran 2 separate sessions of VirtualDubMod (one for each clip), setting both to frameserve.
Generated an AviSynth script to produce a dissolve from the 2 VDub sessions, and then using AviSynth to pass it to CCE.

So you are right f1209, sometimes the answer really is simple. :0
M2 is now 100% home grown pure film, direct stream, accept no substitutes.
The video quality of the manipulated clips is much better. I've seen some artifacts (blocks and such) but no jerkiness; it's a real improvement.

Soooooooooooooooooo,
If you point your browsers to thePirateBay.org (or Demonoid.com) and do a search for Matrix Hacked, you'll find something to tide you over until I finish M3 and can get the discs ready. (M3 will take more than a single day I suspect).

Something special just in time for the Matrix's anniversary.

I wil update the first post... tomorrow.

Dr. M

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Note: Demonoid has trouble with seeder/leecher numbers from external torrents. If you go there you'll need to search for inactive torrents.

Btw, I did manage to fix 2 instances of bad macroblocks since building the Xvid, so the 2 you'll see at the beginning won't be on the DVD.
Also I found another flaw, the Oracle's voice that I replaced (at the end) for some reason is coming slightly from the left. This is a Womble thing since the audio clip is mono and should have come out center or at least equally left/right. I don't think it's fixable without building it back into 5.1, and I doubt I'll be doing that.

Dr. M

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36 downloaders already on piratebay. Now no one should claim Matrix for dead, the interest is out there. I am glad for you, DM, your edit will get watched a lot. And I for sure will take a look...

Nothing about fanediting is easy.

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Heh heh, already working on v1.01. I found some problems with the fade outs so I'm redoing them all in avisynth. You should hardly see a problem in the Xvid since it's reencoded and the borders are cropped, but on a TV with DVD quality, it should be better.

I did get a bit of M3 done before going back though...

Btw, I'm seeing 42 downloaders.

Dr. M

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Congrats on getting the first one released! I'd love to view it myself but I'm not gonna take 3 weeks to download it. Hope it rocks though!
1000 Word Migraine
www.1kwordmigraine.com

An off topic site for an off topic world!
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Lots and lots of seeds now. Get it while it's hot.

V1.01 of Reloaded is now finished. (I won't be making a new Xvid from it.)
It's described in the first post, but some minor artifacts were fixed including a change in black level of the letterbox bars during the opening (which of course isn't present in the Xvid).
The fades were redone with AviSynth/VirtualDub/CCE to remove crappy artifacts in moving in the blackness. The pace is subtly different, but it's much cleaner.

Well, I await the savagery of the critics. I'm serious be brutal...

Dr. M

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That bad eh?
30 hours since the first complete d/l's and no comments.
Anyone not want the DVD's now?


Update/Edit: I just got to the scariest part in my re-editing of the transitions.
It's a dissolve that goes from one clip to white to the next clip. I figured I'd have to remove it and write it off as impossible. But noooo, avisynth rocks:
clip1=crop(avisource("smithwakes.vdr"),0,58,0,-62)
clip2=crop(avisource("neoarrives.vdr"),0,58,0,-62)
fullclip=fadeout(clip1,12,$ffffff)+fadein(clip2,12,$ffffff)
addborders(fullclip,0,58,0,62)

(If you don't crop first, the letterbox borders go white too, and that's just sloppy.)
Woohoo. Looks so much better than MVW!

Dr. M

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Sorry Dr. M, I'd give you a comment, but I am stuck behind my school's individual bandwidth limit and my own obsessive compulsive quirk of wanting to quit programs
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I watched your edit and I know, you deserve a comment badly.

Now what do I want? To encourage you, to motivate you and to definetly try to keep you continuing to make fanedits, because you got visions and ideas and best of all you are daring compared to most other fan editors except for greencapt who may be the most daring of all (until I have seen his second edit). Your oracle scene (although not done sufficiently IMHO) is way cool from the idea to the making. You really tried to make this a different feel to what used to be such a unfulfilling sequel. Of course it won't be my influence to cause an effect a lot of effect on you fanediting future, but since no one has commented yet, I finally wanted to start, even though I cannot say I liked you edit. Why? Because it did not feel like a complete movie to me, the main reason for that is the audio. The audio problems start in the beginning and continue throughout th emovie. It's cool you kept the 5.1, but the soudntrakcs between cuts don't mix up to well, there are silences that cought my unwilling attention, music changes and different sounds of intonation (especially in the oracle scene, where it is still obvius that Smith and the oracle don't talk to one another). The result for me was sequences but not a movie feeling and towards the end the climax was missing because the oracle scene failed to be one for me. What I loved was your version of the "Trinity enters the facility" scene, which was very well edited (except for Link receiving the phonecall). But right now I am running ou of time. If you wish I will continue my report,if not... well, your choice. Keep up the good work, Dr.M.

Nothing about fanediting is easy.

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I am aware that some music transitions might have been sloppy, but under the circumstances I found few alternatives and had to settle for preventing real abrupt cuts. I'm sure there's a better way, maybe resyncing the soundtrack, but there's no way I'm going to try that any further (I did at 2 points in Revolutions).

Can you elaborate on the "silences?"

As for the Oracle scene, yup, rickety as hell. I made sure that the audio from Smith never stops or fades but is continuous even across the Oracle's clips. This was to allow any ambient sounds to overlay her dialog. I gotta say, except for the localization problem I'm not sure I hear what you do.

As far as Link missing the call I'm not sure I'd call it that. It was a creative decision for the transition. I noticed the CBB version had Trinity pick up the phone but not dial, the next audio is the ringing for Link who answers.
I liked Trinity dialing in the Matrix and Link answering in TRW. To keep the full audio for Link involves a ringing in the Matrix and again in TRW which is in too brief a span to be natural sounding.

I guess my bigger concern with the edit is any pops or techinical problems.

The funny thing is, your exceptions with this are largely the things I thought I got right.
I will tell you if you found the movie to lack fluidity, stay away from M3. It is definitely a rough cut more for the impression of what the movie could have been than a good movie experience.

Dr. M