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I agree. I think the dialogue is pieced together.
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
Return of the Jedi cut-scene — Page 2
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Call me a crackpot, but this whole scene looks pasted together.
Take some generic Vader footage and audio outtakes, add in a darkly shrouded figure constructing a lightsaber, CG in a Luke face in the very dark hood, and throw 3po in the background (the only real footage shot for this scene).
Instant Deleted Scene!
(Yes, after years of being lied to by Lucas, I am this jaded.)
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I think thats how they actuall put this together, Erik--in 1983.
The shot of Vader walking down the hallway is from elsewhere in the film, probably as he confronts the guards. The shot of him entering the elevator is probably from the same scene, or another one. The awkward cut to the meditation chamber (how did he get there? does he just have these all over his ships and death stars?) is because there was no shot footage of him entering the chamber. The actual shot of the chamber is an outtake from Empire Strikes Back. They then edited together unused alternate takes for the voice over.
Hamill wasn't around so they filmed a double playing with the lightsaber. Anthony Daniels was shot seperately as the only other original footage for the scene and the composited over another shot of the double and R2.
I thought there was some dialogue in there but maybe there is not.
Put together and you have a whole scene where you've only filmed three original shots. They add in a lightsaber optical, John Williams scores it. Then it gets cut out.
One possible version of history.
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OK, i have watched this about 100 times now and i have pieced the audio together from Empire and Jedi. I have to agree that this scene is more or less made up. The only dialogue I didn't find (and I didn't look very hard) is Vader saying "dark side of the force" . All the other I have matched up with existing dialogue.
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zombie, that's certainly possible. But why would they have to go through all that trouble back in 83? Why would they have to piece together a scene that they had storyboards for?
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
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Well, as much as I like Jedi, is hard to argue that it was the beginning of the end, sort of. It probably was cheaper to piece it together, you know, the post-ESB Lucas way.
And thanks for the welcome, SilverWook
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The storyboards are for the two original shots they did. The one with Luke and saber. Correct? So they figured how to do the Vader stuff with existing footage and then had to storyboard what they needed to create from scratch. There's no Vader storyboards for the scene from what I've seen...
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So deleted scenes are now not even that. They are re-created scenes. The rest of the deleted scenes are probably made up of clips from the original trailers.
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No, its a deleted scene. Its not recreated. This is the original. The original just used borrowed pieces. Its an editing technique found in all the films.
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but doest it mean that the scene was actually shot and then cut from the film for whatever reason? From what we are speculating the scene was partially shot, then made up of other unused shots and new CGI to create a new shot. I know what you are saying and agree with you, its just that this seems like a half assed effort in creating something that was never really there. ie the star destroyer scene in ESB SE is so obviously from RotJ footage. It just looks cheap, rushed and gimickie to sell. thats what Im trying to say. It is becoming so typical of Lucas these days.
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Editors re-use footage all the time. Thats such a silly complaint. The footage here that was used was stuff no one saw before, so therefore its as good as original footage. The ROTJ SE shot was dumb because we COULD TELL it was re-used footage, which is a different ballgame. The Vader footage here looks like it was filmed for the scene, we're just such super analytical nerds that we can actually break down the construct of the sequence and discover where each piece came from.
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I'm pretty sure Zombie is right. Williams wouldn't have recorded the score for it in 1982 if there wasn't any footage to score to.
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Can't believe this was ever let out of the vault. Stunning.
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
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I agree. This isn't something that I came up with for an edit looping and reversing shots from a dvd.
George and Mark unveiled it themselves. If you look at the side view of Luke in the hood, there is absolutely zero question that it is Hamill and that's just looking at it on a youtube clip of a half ass cel phone video of it.
If it looked like they just threw a hood on Jon Lovitz and shot the scene and tried to pass it off, you would have heard a collective, "WTF" from the fans who were seeing it in full quality on a 50 foot screen.
Plus as has been said many times before, the soundtrack cds have had the score for this scene on it for many years. This scene was scored in 82-83 when Williams scored the movie.
Granted, it does look like there is some lazy recycling of alternate takes of footage to make up some of the Vader stuff, but as an editor, let me tell you, we do that shit all the time. Just normally for typical Hollywood fare, cynical fanboys aren't combing over it looking for any excuse to call it fake. If Han shooting Greedo wasn't in the original Star Wars, people would call that scene fake today when it went on the Blu Ray, because Han's "Even I get boarded sometimes, do you think I had a choice?" is obviously the exact same take of audio lifted from the Jabba scene.
This whole thing reminds me of over a year before Episode II came out, a supposed draft of the script came out and everyone picked it apart as fake. I still have it and it was 100% dead on accurate. People were just looking for a reason to cry fake.
Then when Episode III was coming out, a year or two before, storyboards and scene descriptions came out about a terminator like cyborg named Grievous that hunted Jedi and swung on a grappling hook walking on the side of the ship. People ridiculed the leaker claiming it was fan fiction bullshit and ran them off of several sites. At the time I remember thinking to myself, "There's no way that could possibly be made up. No fan would make up something so stupid." Fast forward a few years and what do you know, cyborg swinging on a hook.
And when the Trilogy hit dvd, the changed scenes leaked a few weeks before the release and until the day those discs were on shelves, people who could watch McDiarmid as the Emperor, see the changed Jabba, and see Hayden at the end of Jedi vowed that all of those scenes were faked by fans and were not going to be on the discs.
People need to get over their "Pics or it didn't happen" cynical attitudes. If you saw the pics, you'd just say they were photoshopped. Show you video and its a fake. Let you stand on set and watch them shoot it, and you'd swear it was doubles or that you were plugged into the Matrix or something.
Just because the scene was half assed in 83 doesn't mean it isn't real. That's probably why it was cut out of the film to begin with.
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I quite agree MagnoliaFan. As an editor I have always found it fascinating that the addition or omission of just a frame here or a frame there, can change the entire feel of a movie. For me this is a study in what the film could have been, had the scene been included. Recycled elements or not. This is a scene I've wanted to see for ages. It was a delight for me.
Creator of Star Wars Begins, Building Empire and Returning to Jedi
Follow me on twitter @jamieSWB. Please support me at - http://www.patreon.com/jamiebenning/
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Absolutely.
What's funny is it was pretty close to what I imagined the scene looking like, except I would have just wiped straight from Vader walking away from Jerjerod (probably spelled wrong) to Vader in the meditation chamber and lost the other 2 Vader shots. That and trimmed down his dialog a bit. Besides that, spot on.
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So wait a sec. Will this scene be included as a cut scene, or will it be inserted into the film?
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Deleted scenes section of the disc. Not in the film proper.
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Just to put all these silly (and somewhat paranoid!) rumours of this being pieced together recently to rest.....
"The scene has completed visual effects and music because it was cut right before the final edit of the film was made during post production."
FROM: http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/08/14/star-wars-blu-ray-announced-for-fall-2011-deleted-scene-revealed/
I cant believe some people here have the time/nothing better to do then go through lines of dialogue in all three films working out how this was (in their minds) pieced together...
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Come on, guys, look at Luke's chin in that clip and look at Mark's chin...not even close!!! Another typical Luca$ continuity blunder, and he can't even get faces right anymore LOL Plus, even through a cell phone cam the footage looks way too high quality and new. And Vader's dialog, straight out of the PT writer's vault...how horrible! LOL
Mark saying he never shot this, what I mentioned above...I swear, this looks like a hack. I think we're going to find out sooner than later that this is not a legit scene from the 80s.
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Nerfherder said:I cant believe some people here have the time/nothing better to do then go through lines of dialogue in all three films working out how this was (in their minds) pieced together...
You cannot believe that? I read similar examples of such anal retentiveness here on an almost daily basis lol.
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Here is Mark Hamill introducing the clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKdWtBOM0J0&playnext=1&videos=no8PRIAeokM
It's definitely Mark and not a double
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If you look at the theatrical cut of Jedi there are a lot of duplicate and shifted elements in there.
That corridor and lift may have originally have been part of the Force choke scene but then shifted back to pad out this now deleted sequence before finally being cut altogether.
If I were to use this footage myself I'd take the corridor and lift section and put it before Vader talking to Palpatine about the Rebels landing on Endor because it sits better there, so it's possible that's where it original came from.
If the meditation chamber was a composite of the set from ESB and new footage for ROTJ maybe there wasn't enough footage for the desired pacing or Lucas just wanted to walk the audience from point A to point B (like the SE shuttle added to ESB).
The footage could be both a montage of bits originally intended elsewhere and the real deal.
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Chewtobacca said:
Nerfherder said:I cant believe some people here have the time/nothing better to do then go through lines of dialogue in all three films working out how this was (in their minds) pieced together...
You cannot believe that? I read similar examples of such anal retentiveness here on an almost daily basis lol.
Hahaha very true - forgot where I was for a second ;)
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adywan said:
Here is Mark Hamill introducing the clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKdWtBOM0J0&playnext=1&videos=no8PRIAeokM
It's definitely Mark and not a double
Thanks for that - he even says at the beginning he didn't remember doing that scene (or had vague memories of it) until he saw it again.
Move on folks ;)