Ranking the Star Wars films — Page 54

Lord Haseo said:
ESB has a better written script, is better paced, has way better acting and dialogue.

I don’t agree with this at all. SW/ANH is perfectly paced, ESB lags just a tad in the mid-section in comparison. The script is also tighter in the original. The script is textbook execution of its genre in how it sets up and resolves its story, introduces the world and characters, etc. And no, ESB is not “way” better in terms of acting and dialogue. Better overall, yes, thanks to Kershner’s direction, but it’s really not all that different in most respects. There’s some clunkers in there worse than anything in SW. (“Two fighters against a star destroyer?”) ESB is great and arguably better, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not in a different league on these fronts like some make it out to be. Both have their merits and both have points that they excel over the other in. I will say this for SW, though: It’s the only one that works as a single film. ESB literally requires you watch what comes both before and after it to get the full story.

Density said:

Lord Haseo said:
ESB has a better written script, is better paced, has way better acting and dialogue.

SW/ANH is perfectly paced, ESB lags just a tad in the mid-section in comparison.

And SW lagged in the beginning. Difference being that when ESB slowed down it yielded more character development.

The script is also tighter in the original.

Very debatable. I don’t think either script has anything non essential in it.

The script is textbook execution of its genre in how it sets up and resolves its story, introduces the world and characters, etc.

That it is but I prefer how ESB is a textbook example of taking the premises, themes and characters in the first installment and taking them to unprecedented hights.

And no, ESB is not “way” better in terms of acting and dialogue. Better overall, yes, thanks to Kershner’s direction, but it’s really not all that different in most respects. There’s some clunkers in there worse than anything in SW. (“Two fighters against a star destroyer?”)

That line is only clunky because of the line delivery. “Somebody has to save our skins. Into the garbage chute flyboy” is much much worse from a line writing and a line delivery standpoint.

I will say this for SW, though: It’s the only one that works as a single film. ESB literally requires you watch what comes both before and after it to get the full story.

That’s not even a fair point because ESB is a sequel. That’s like me saying that ESB or TFA makes you want to watch the next installment more knowing full well that SW was made as if it was possible that sequels wouldn’t be made.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Well according to “original” Lucas everyone can have the same abilities if they just train hard enough.

Not canon

Well “original” Lucas is definitely more canon than “special edition” Lucas.

When it comes to a lot of things, yes. Everyone being able to use the Force is not one of them as it would demystify it.

Well it is not good but it is certainly better than force potential being hereditary (which is a nod to midichlorians). In ideal world force potential should be completely random.

Well Anakin is the father of Luke and Leia and they both ended up being Force Sensitive but I doubt that’s specific example doesn’t bother you.

Well I could accept that Luke just happened to be force sensitive by a chance. But Leia being too smells of heritage (and midichlorians). I guess that is the only part of ROTJ that bothers me.

There could have easily been a spiritual/cosmic/whateverthefuck reason for that. It doesn’t need to be microorganisms

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Well according to “original” Lucas everyone can have the same abilities if they just train hard enough.

Not canon

Well “original” Lucas is definitely more canon than “special edition” Lucas.

When it comes to a lot of things, yes. Everyone being able to use the Force is not one of them as it would demystify it.

Well it is not good but it is certainly better than force potential being hereditary (which is a nod to midichlorians). In ideal world force potential should be completely random.

Well Anakin is the father of Luke and Leia and they both ended up being Force Sensitive but I doubt that’s specific example doesn’t bother you.

Well I could accept that Luke just happened to be force sensitive by a chance. But Leia being too smells of heritage (and midichlorians). I guess that is the only part of ROTJ that bothers me.

There could have easily been a spiritual/cosmic/whateverthefuck reason for that. It doesn’t need to be microorganisms

If we forget about midichlorians, it is still presented as hereditary process rather than something spiritual and random.

If the Force is spiritual then passing the power onto an offspring is still spiritual. You’re right about it not being random but to me it wouldn’t make sense if offspring didn’t inherit the Force seeing as how they’re luminous beings.

Can you two get a thread already?

I forget sometimes that this site used to harbor a plethora of Star Wars discussions…

TV’s Frink said:

Can you two get a thread already?

Rank can be slang for complaining, so perhaps this is the correct thread for this ‘discussion’ after all?

We and Impscum were discussing whether we think ROTJ is on par with SW and ESB so it fits. Also let’s be honest without this conversation me and him are having this thread would have faded into obscurity again because actual discussion about Star Wars is at an all time low on here

dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

Can you two get a thread already?

Rank can be slang for complaining, so perhaps this is the correct thread for this ‘discussion’ after all?

We’ll have to check in with ImpScum since he’s the only possessor of truth.

Lord Haseo said:

We and Impscum

Team account confirmed.

Lord Haseo said:

We and Impscum were discussing whether we think ROTJ is on par with SW and ESB so it fits. Also let’s be honest without this conversation me and him are having this thread would have faded into obscurity again because actual discussion about Star Wars is at an all time low on here

hey, nothing wrong with wanting to promote new dialog. but it seems like certain users get into the same back and forth in various threads here, and lets be honest, the walls of each quoted sentence gets a bit pedantic and old, and probably makes it even harder for others to join in the dialog, which makes it a two person argument, which isn’t the best dialog for a forum. but all i know is that is how i feel about it, i don’t claim to represent others.

imperialscum said:

Stop complaining. If anyone thinks we are doing anything wrong, report it to mods.

Is there a rule against claiming ultimate truth in every situation?

imperialscum said:

You and your buddy Frink are making off-topic posts here. I might remind you that such behaviour is against the forum rules.

imperialscum said:

Stop complaining. If anyone thinks we are doing anything wrong, report it to mods.

yhwx said:

We just have to wait until ImperialScum gets banned.

Won’t happen. He knows how to be an obnoxious asshat without crossing the line.

I doubt it.

dahmage said:

Lord Haseo said:

We and Impscum were discussing whether we think ROTJ is on par with SW and ESB so it fits. Also let’s be honest without this conversation me and him are having this thread would have faded into obscurity again because actual discussion about Star Wars is at an all time low on here

hey, nothing wrong with wanting to promote new dialog. but it seems like certain users get into the same back and forth in various threads here, and lets be honest, the walls of each quoted sentence gets a bit pedantic and old, and probably makes it even harder for others to join in the dialog, which makes it a two person argument, which isn’t the best dialog for a forum. but all i know is that is how i feel about it, i don’t claim to represent others.

I see what you mean but when it comes to something like Star Wars some topic are layered so that’s going to lead to a lot of smaller debates in the arc of the main debate.