darth_ender said:
You’ve clearly assumed it, but whatever, I’m too busy to find examples right now, so let’s just assume you really are giving religious people, myself included, fair consideration as intelligent human beings.Which is what you should have been assuming this whole time. Funny thing is you’re the only one who seems to notice this intolerance you’re speaking of.
No, I’m not, but I’m also hitting home a point.
I don’t remember Dek or Warbler ever saying that they felt they were being treated as if they were intellectually inferior.
I don’t think anyone in particular feels you were calling them that. I don’t feel like you were insulting me personally. Just religion in general.
So? Given that I adhere to the scientific method and empirical evidence I have every right to believe Religion is stupid. I understand why people gravitate to it (people who were practically forced to believe as a child excluded) but I don’t think the stories and statements about reality in Religions makes any sense.
You’ve made statements that essentially state religion prevents critical thinking
For some people
use of empirical evidence
It does…
and leads to prejudice.
For a lot it does as well. There are millions of people who hate gays because of the passages in the Bible and Quran. I am grateful however that quite a few have forsaken such passages and embrace people for being different than them. And let’s not even get into other groups such as Women, people with other Religions, people who are of the same Religions but are in different sects, Atheists etc.
Your phrasing wasn’t gentle, and if I’d felt you were some threat to my point of view, I might have been more insulted. I’m just saying you do come off as a bit arrogant in how you portray your POV.
In a lot of cases I try not to; but I assure you that this arrogance came after you came at me with contempt.
Also that’s a very poor example you’re using as the line between saying “I hate Black Culture” vs saying “I hate Black people” is very minuscule while hating Religion and being okay with Religious people are completely separate.
Please enlighten me how it’s different. It affects your judgment of me. It affects your judgment of many religious folks. You may be “okay” with them, but you perceive them as unscientific, bigoted, and promoters of hate. Such is not always the case. You allow your judgment to be tainted by your hatred.
It’s different because black culture effects the way black people act in a much simpler way then being a Christian. There are Christians who don’t believe in hating gays and making women subservient to men and there are Christians who don’t agree on the prerequisites for going to Hell etc. so it’s as clear cut as you’re making it out to be because there are many many types of Christians who practice their Religious beliefs in different ways.
I fail to see the difference at all and don’t even fully understand your logic here. Black culture is a complex thing, much like religion. Religion really is a culture, or perhaps a sub-culture, but then again, so is black culture, WASP culture, etc., all falling under American culture. All these cultural norms affect our perception of the world, and all of us have prejudice, whether we care to admit it or not. Don’t oversimplify black culture. The analogy is perfect.
Perhaps I did oversimplify our culture a bit but you vastly oversimplified Christians. I don’t really like doing this but my experience as a mixed man, who has had multiple black friends and even best friends for the entirety of my life and have met many other types of black folk in my days I am telling you that the things that be attributed to black culture exclusively is not as varied as what can be attributed to how different Christians act. Maybe that’s because I haven’t been up North as I should but being Christian (or Religious) is multifaceted in the way that one can adopt the teachings and go about life in adherence to them.
Boy, you sure know a lot about me for having interacted with me so little and really not understanding my posting history. Nice assumptions.
You have been more or less the same thing but okay buddy.
I’ve just quoted what you said and made points about it. I didn’t extrapolate any further than that.
I think using key words in my posts and making statements about them even though you know damn well what I’m talking about counts as extrapolating.
I actually was quoting exactly what you said.
But you know what I meant…I even clarified it.
Lord Haseo said:
Unless you are literally a Bible it is not bigotry. I don’t hate you and I don’t hate Christians in general; I just hate the book.
Not even sure why you bring this up, honestly. I am calling your hatred of Christianity bigotry. Why did you even say this?
“Hate the sin, love the sinner”
That’s why I brought it up
Which has been called here justification for bigotry.
And like I said before there’s nothing wrong with being religious. I just don’t like the Religions themselves.
Meaning I don’t like The Bible, The Quran or any other types of holy texts. I may like certain teachings in them but that doesn’t do much in the long run.A religion is more than just the Bible, and the Bible is more than just the verse you find offensive. There are good messages in there, and they are ancient texts, ancient guidelines for ancient people.
I have said multiple times that there are good things in the Bible but a lot of them are things you can find in other mediums.
Religion has promoted equality among humans.
Not the Judeo-Christian ones…
But here I want to reassure you that I didn’t call you a bigot for hating the Bible. I am calling you a bigot for literally stating, “I hate Christianity.”
Christians are a group (which happen to fall under that umbrella of Christianity, which you hate).
You know what the funny thing about this is? This all started because I said I hate the Bible. I didn’t say that I hated Christianity or even Religion in general. Just some food for thought. Furthermore I believe the only person to outright say “I hate Christianity” was Darth Lucas and he clarified that he meant that he hated the Bible and not those who read it. So basically you’re bitching about absolutely nothing.
And what is the center of Christianity? I’ll give you a hint; it’s the thing I said I hated that started all of this.
You said, “Some of us don’t hate you (as in Christians) just the Religion itself…” and now you’re saying, “I didn’t say that I hated Christianity or even Religion in general.” You are a contradictory man.
I was pointing out how this all started. If you go back to the genesis of this entire argument (which doesn’t even start ITT) you will see I was just giving my reasoning for hating the Bible. Nice try.
Actually the center of Christianity is Christ. And Christ preached a very good message, applicable to today. His standards are so high, no one can truly live by them. But we can aspire to do so.
There’s actually a study that shows that Atheists tend to know more about what’s in Religious texts (primarily the Bible) than actual believers. As someone who used to be a “militant Atheist” a few years back I learned many things about the Bible to fuel my hatred of it and to know what I was talking about when I debated people.
But that is interesting that you used to be a “militant Atheist.” Very revealing.
I hated religion far more than I do now but never did I ever say that I hated Christians. That’s even more telling
See, again you use the word religion, not the Bible. “I hated religion far more than I do now…” You hate religion.
But you know that when I mean Religion I mean the holy texts but you’re using me saying “Religion” to imply that “if I hate X I must hate you by proxy” even though you know damn well what I mean. That’s pretty petty man.
Such hatred does affect your judgment of those who are religious in a prejudiced way. But as I said above, we are all bigoted to some extent.
So you’re omniscient now? You know every thought I have thought about Religious people? If you do you would know I know two people (one being my cousin and the other being someone I befriended when I was doing GED courses and later in College) and both of them are way smarter than me. If I really were prejudice my mind would create excuses to undermine their intelligence but I don’t and can’t because I’m not prejudice.
Everyone has small unconscious biases sure what you’re proposing is full on bigotry and I assure you that is not the case.