ZkinandBonez said:
I’d say it was more his sense of discipline and control. Also killing people like Ozzel was simply tactical. I just don’t see anger in it, but then again I’m seeing this from a pre-PT perspective.
I don’t know man. “He’s as clumsy as he is stupid” sounded pretty spiteful to me.
Again, I’d call it tactical. He’s trying to seduce him to the dark side. Calling him “son” and promising him the death of the emperor, as well as offering him power is all very tactical. I’d hardly call it a heartfelt father-son moment. He’s basically just trying to remedy the situation. (If anything I’d say it’s more akin to the “Dun Möch” thing you brought up further down.)
It’s about as heartfelt as you can get with a Sith. I think him calling him son along with all of his mannerisms after he revealed to Luke that they were related proves that he cares for him a little bit but that’s just me. It makes more sense that Vader would save Luke in ROTJ if he showed that he cared about him (or at least the prospect of ruling with his son) in ESB
Fair enough, but I’m not sure if I’m too convinced that Dun Möch was the intention back in 1980. But, yes he was trying to draw Luke out. But if he had such an explosion of emotion finding out about Luke, then isn’t it slightly weird that his immediate though when learning about Leia is to use her as bait.
Had the situation been different (such as Luke being captured and restrained) and then Vader said that I could understand where you’re coming from.
That’s seem like a bit of a cop out to me.
I guess.
Sure, but even in ANH he does show frustration and even surprise at the end. And this scene really doesn’t convey more than, again, disappointment.
The only time Vader shows any emotion is when he was yelling for the Storm Troopers to tear the ship apart. That’s very different from him being awestruck that Luke escaped his grasp to the point that killing someone that failed him didn’t cross his mind.
Well, that’s kind of my point. Many of these stories that I mentioned were taking place around ANH. One that especially bugged me (and this was before I disliked the PT) showed Vader having a Padme moment right after the Death Star.
I think we’re both seeing this from two very different perspectives. I see a character that was created and established in the 70’s and 80’s and treat him as such. I keep forgetting that modern SW writers don’t really give a damn about and simply write the character based on a lot of PT-retconning.
I think they’re just trying to make his turn in ROTJ make more sense. To establish that he still always had a shred of humanity in his if certain stimuli crossed his path. Now whether they did that right is another matter.
So you’re not wrong about him thinking about Padme, or him using Dun Möch, I’m just arguing that it’s not how the original Vader would have behaved.
Vader taunted Ben in SW and tried to prod Luke with the prospect of turning Leia to the Dark Side in ROTJ…That is how he acted. Dun Möch is just a term built around that behavior.
But how will we ever know if Vader or Boba are feeling emotions if they’re not having an anime-style meltdown!
Subtle emotions are for pretentious artfilm jerks! That’s why adding that “No!” to Vader at the end of Jedi was a masterstroke, now we really know how he felt instead of just guessing like a bunch of idiots!
