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The "EditDroid" Trilogy DVD Info and Feedback Thread (Released) — Page 12

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Originally posted by: Karyudo

In a word, no. Letterboxing takes up less space, because it's easy to compress black. It takes more bandwidth to encode anamorphic titles, because there's more actual picture information. The black bars are still there, but they're much narrower.


Interesting...and thanks for the answer. Forgive me for sounding like a novice, I'm just now beginning to work with video. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this though. Let's say one has a 120 minute movie, it would actually take up less bandwidth to encode large bars on the top and bottom (letterboxed) as opposed to very narrow bars (anamorphic)? I understand that solid black is easy to compress, but how can there be more actual picture information on anamorphic format as opposed to letterboxed format? Is it simply that the resolution is that much finer on anamorphic?

D.O.


edit: It looks like MeBe answered my questions on the very next post.
¤ The Dark One In Costume ¤

...at last we shall have revenge...
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Originally posted by: agr1170
So far SW and TESB are AWESOME, looks and sounds great. Just finished watching them in my friends theater set-up. 10x12 ft screen and 7.1 surround


Now that sounds like a setup!
¤ The Dark One In Costume ¤

...at last we shall have revenge...
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"And another thing: There is an easter egg in the ESB disc (In the bonus features screen, go to "main menu" button and then press right). That easter egg provides nothing extra to the spactator, it just mocks him (you'll understand when you see it). So I'm thinking.... Why would someone who made a disc only for himself, as the creator of this set claims he did, put an easter egg like this in his creation?"

1) The creators obviously gave copies to some friends.
2) No one in their right mind would expect this version to never get out.
3) Why not?

"I understand that solid black is easy to compress, but how can there be more actual picture information on anamorphic format as opposed to letterboxed format? Is it simply that the resolution is that much finer on anamorphic?"

Set your DVD player to 4x3 mode, and play an anamorphic DVD. The picture will be stretched vertically, almost - if not completely - to the top and bottom of the screen. (Again, depending on the ratio of the film.) Everyone will look tall and thin.

If you play a non-anamorphic DVD, it will take up the same space regardless of 4x3 or 16x9 mode, because there's nothing to alter.

Without getting too technical....When the DVD player is set to 4x3 mode with an anamorphic DVD, lines of video are removed, so that the picture is small enough to fit in a 4x3 screen. If the DVD player is set to 16x9 with an anamorphic DVD, the picture is stretched horizontally, and now all those "tall & skinny" people are the correct width for their height.

This site has many excellent examples...

http://www.widescreen.org/dvd_anamorphic.shtml

http://www.widescreen.org/images/st4_43_nonanam.jpg

If we looked at this as a letterbox transfer, then we would see that a lot of the 720x480 frame is taken up by black space. Now, if we looked at this as an anamorphic transfer...

http://www.widescreen.org/images/st4_43_anam.jpg

Notice how less space is taken up by the black edges! The more variety of video information you have in the frame (different colors, high action), the less you are able to compress the video. Still scenes take up very little space, whereas scenes with movement are harder to compress. Explosions and such do not compress well. MPEG works by studying differences between pixels between frames. If there's no difference from one frame the next, then the same video information can be used for two frames. If the pixels between two frames are different, then the video information for each pixel of each frame must be stored - double the storage space.

The black bars above and below the image are (for all intents and purposes) the same black throughout the film, thus out of roughly 200,000 frames (SW is @178,000), the same video information can be used for all the black pixels. Since the anamorphic video has less black area, there's more actual changing video that must be analyzed and compressed.

I hope that made sense.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Thanks MeBe, it all makes sense now. I guess that I'm not quite "smarter than the average bear" when it comes to video formats.

I went ahead and set the DVD player on my 4:3 to 16:9 and lo and behold...the stretching distortion as described on the site you linked to.

So this has led me to another question...shouldn't all new transfers of the OT be in anamorphic seeing how the "powers-that-be" are pushing the 16:9 sets? Try finding a 4:3 set bigger than 32", they are almost as rare as 8-tracks nowadays.

Also, with the emergence of inexpensive DL DVD burners and media that is rapidly falling in price, wouldn't the preferred primary format for the new DL projects (fingers crossed) be 16:9 anamorphic? I'll put it this way, on my 32" 4:3 I can't see much difference between pretty much all of the better transfers, but on the 54" 16:9 the differences are very apparent.

Let me know if I'm off in left field somewhere, or if I'm heading in the right direction.

D.O.


EDIT: From here I'll move all of these questions to the "Letterboxed Widescreen vs. Anamorphic Widescreen Discussion" forum
¤ The Dark One In Costume ¤

...at last we shall have revenge...
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" I guess that I'm not quite "smarter than the average bear" when it comes to video formats."

Don't worry. DVD terminology can be difficult to understand. In fact, technically speaking, "anamorphic" DVDs are actually the opposite of what "anamorphic" really means, but it's not a terrible important distinction.

"So this has led me to another question...shouldn't all new transfers of the OT be in anamorphic seeing how the "powers-that-be" are pushing the 16:9 sets?"

The official discs are, but if you are referring to bootlegs - again, it depends, as was explained in the anamorphic thread.

The problem is, regardless of what method you use, you still lose resolution when you "zoom in" on the letterbox transfer in order to make it anamorphic. It simply isn't the same picture, though it can come very close if one is very careful. It really depends on what looks good on your television.

This is why I say people with 4x3 tvs shouldn't get the anamorphic DVD. You lose resolution by blowing up the image to anamorphic, and then you lose resolution again when your DVD player removes 1 of every 4 lines to get the once-anamorphic picture to fit on your smaller TV screen. If you want an anamorphic transfer of the SW LDs, you'd better have a widescreen tv or else you screw up the picture (ironically, though, if you don't have a high-quality tv, you probably won't notice the difference anyways, so those people shouldn't bitch. )

"Also, with the emergence of inexpensive DL DVD burners and media that is rapidly falling in price, wouldn't the preferred primary format for the new DL projects (fingers crossed) be 16:9 anamorphic? I'll put it this way, on my 32" 4:3 I can't see much difference between pretty much all of the better transfers, but on the 54" 16:9 the differences are very apparent."

Well, since the anamorphic version takes up more space, a DL version would seem the no-brainer, but if it isn't done well, it can actually look worse. How the video and disc is prepared makes a much bigger difference than you think. Making DVDs ain't like dusting cr.......er, isn't like making music CDs. )

Oops, just saw the bottom of your last entry. I'll move this post over there as well.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I was wondering if anyone knew which of the .vob files of the torrent on myspleen contains the pre-ANH crawl. I already have a copy of the widescreen OT but am interested in the generated crawl.

Does anyone know the name of the .vob?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Well, seeing as it comes at the start of the movie, VTS_01_1.VOB would be a good place to start.

(Don't ask me how to un-multi-angle the video, I don't know)

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
I was wondering if anyone knew which of the .vob files of the torrent on myspleen contains the pre-ANH crawl. I already have a copy of the widescreen OT but am interested in the generated crawl.

Does anyone know the name of the .vob?


It is in the vts_01_1.vob, but the process is not that simple, because you also need the angle information stored in VIDEO_TS.IFO
What I would do If I were you, is download the following files:
VIDEO_TS.IFO, VIDEO_TS.VOB, VTS_01_0.BUP, VTS_01_0.VOB and VTS_01_1.VOB.
I would the load these files to DVDremake, select the crawl block (it is the first block of the movie) and right click on it to select "save block".
Than you would have to paste the block in the place of the crawl block of your copy of the movie, and add an angle selection button on your menu (the menu is usually strored in either VIDEO_TS.VOB or VTS_01_0.VOB
Of course there is the more easy option of d'loading the whole disc
And now, for your feature presentation:
The Classic Re-re-re-release of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.
In this version the word "WOOKIE" has been changed to "HAIR CHALLENGED ANIMAL" and the entire cast has been digitally replaced by Ewoks.
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If you want to extract a particular angle, get a hold of a copy of SmartRipper. With the DVD in the drive, run the program and when it's finished loading, it should show the movie's program chain expanded to show all the angles. Select the angle you want to work with, and in the adjacent pane, select the chapter or chapters you want to extract. Click on stream processing and select which streams you want extracted. Also there, you can choose whether to copy the streams to a new VOB, or extract them to the mpeg and ac3 files.
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DVD Shrink will do it as well. That's what I used to extract the crawl for my recreation.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I have isolated the pre-ANH crawl in a 55MB "DVD"
If you haven't found what you are looking for yet, get it here: REMOVED
My connection isn't very fast, but it will do the job...

Edit: I removed the public anouncement of my ip, because for every decent guy who d'loaded the file, there was one immature spoiled brat who thought it was a good idea to try and hack into my system (without any apparent reason, I might add). The file has been distributed to 9 people. Hopefully, if intrest remains, someone can make it available.
And now, for your feature presentation:
The Classic Re-re-re-release of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.
In this version the word "WOOKIE" has been changed to "HAIR CHALLENGED ANIMAL" and the entire cast has been digitally replaced by Ewoks.
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First post here.

I am a professional audio engineer and big fan of the one and only Star Wars. The more I see of the tinkering and tampering with the original, the more I feel compelled to be involved in what, ironically seems to becoming "the rebellion against the Empire."

As my specialty is in restoration and mastering, I would like to contribute my services to any and all involved in the creation of definitive DVD editions.

I would particularly enjoy the opportunity to work on a restoration of any mono track elements floating around, as I have yet to hear a decent version thus far. The Academy Mono screenings I attended sounded about as good as that format could render to my recollection, and the quality of the material on The Making of Star Wars LP gives one a general idea as to how good this track could sound. (I'm sure there is a mag master in existence that will likely never see the light of day.) Most of what's currently out there seems to be culled from video sources and that may very well be all that is accessible.

Should anyone be interested, now or in the future with this or any endeavor with which I could provide assistance, please feel free to email me directly at phodgson@snet.net. The exchange of audio files is quite easy by email for smaller chunks and by CD/snail mail for large bits. Sampling rates and bit depths should be established and agreed upon at the outset to minimize any unnecessary conversion after the fact, and mp3 conversions should be avoided at all cost.
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I got the very best known source available from Moth3r. He captured it from a VHS tape of the 1985 UK broadcast (which contained the mono mix). The audio is in PAL, though, so you'd need to slow it down by 4%. You'd also need to patch the few gaps which are present due to commercial breaks.

Floating around in the newsgroups is his uncompressed capture of this mix.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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To Metallaxis:

Thanks for the effort on your part. I can't believe someone would actually hack into your system after you posted something so useful. I wasn't able to get the torrent in time, and I would be interested, but I've almost downloaded the EditDroid .vob anyway. I also have DVD Shrink, so I should be able to extract the alternate angle.

Thanks!

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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hi everyone. I am a newbie on this forum.
can anyone tell me how to find EditDroid's ROTJ ?
I can't seem to find it on Myspleen, while ANH and TESB are there…
maybe under another name?
thx
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You will have to wait a couple af days until Rikter makes it available in MySpleen (It has not been uploaded yet).
But since you are a newbie, I assume you are a newbie in MySpleen too so there will be a 48 hour delay for you until you can get it (see the Faq section in myspleen).
And now, for your feature presentation:
The Classic Re-re-re-release of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.
In this version the word "WOOKIE" has been changed to "HAIR CHALLENGED ANIMAL" and the entire cast has been digitally replaced by Ewoks.
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thx.
I figured it out just a couple of days after posting my question, since the release dates of ANH and TESB are so recent
but it was nice of you to answer anyway
a newbie has to start somewhere… and ask stupid questions along the way
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Did some initial A/B comparison to the TK47 and the Faces LD and this EditDroid set. The EditDroid set is probably the best available in video quality. I didn't do too much in comparing sound. Nice thing is my copy of the EditDroid set plays on my older Toshiba so I am literally able to flip from back and forth between the DVD's. The TK47 is definitely fuzzier on freeze frame, but it's hard to tell the difference while both are running.

My LD Player really SUCKS, lots of dot crawl and my monitor is not calibrated to it (video pushed way too much to red), so the Faces LD looked unnaturally brighter than either the TK47 or the EditDroid DVD's. Both DVD's had a more natural tone to them, but like I the monitor is not calibrated to the LD player.

Hopefully I'll beable to do a more thorough comparison.
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I've actually had a problem burning these to DVD-R.

I use Nero for burning and have found it good. Been using it for years. When I try to use it to compile a DVD video from the EditDroid ANH files (ie, I tell Nero it's a DVD video and put all the files in the VIDEO_TS directory) it refusus to burn the image to DVD-R.

It tells me that it can be burned to DVD+R, DVD+RW or DVD-RW, but not DVD-R for some reason. It asks me to either change the content insome way so that it will burn to DVD-R or to insert a compatable disk. It I put in a DVD+R, it burns to that with no problems.

While this isn't the end of the world (as I have a Pioneer 107 dual format burner and still have some DVD+Rs from my last batch) I'd like to burn all my stuff to the nice Taiyo Yuden DVD-Rs I bought recently.

How do I change the disk so that it'll burn to DVD-R?
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Originally posted by: RichKS
I've actually had a problem burning these to DVD-R.

I use Nero for burning and have found it good. Been using it for years. When I try to use it to compile a DVD video from the EditDroid ANH files (ie, I tell Nero it's a DVD video and put all the files in the VIDEO_TS directory) it refusus to burn the image to DVD-R.

It tells me that it can be burned to DVD+R, DVD+RW or DVD-RW, but not DVD-R for some reason. It asks me to either change the content insome way so that it will burn to DVD-R or to insert a compatable disk. It I put in a DVD+R, it burns to that with no problems.

While this isn't the end of the world (as I have a Pioneer 107 dual format burner and still have some DVD+Rs from my last batch) I'd like to burn all my stuff to the nice Taiyo Yuden DVD-Rs I bought recently.

How do I change the disk so that it'll burn to DVD-R?



The jacket_p folder and cdrom content should be in the root of the disk alongside the Video and audio _ts folders
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Quick question: does it matter if the order of the files is different? For example, I was under the impression it was supposed to go AUDIO_TS, then VIDEO_TS, then JACKET_P. However, when I try to put JACKET_P into Nero, it forces the order to be AUDIO_TS, JACKET_P, VIDEO_TS, and I can't move JACKET_P anywhere. Does this matter? And how do I put the DVD-ROM content in? The whole "content" folder, or dump all the files in there, or what?

I burned it successfully before, but then I was impatient and said screw it, I want it now, and burned *only* the VIDEO_TS folder contents.
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Originally posted by: ChainsawAsh
Quick question: does it matter if the order of the files is different? For example, I was under the impression it was supposed to go AUDIO_TS, then VIDEO_TS, then JACKET_P. However, when I try to put JACKET_P into Nero, it forces the order to be AUDIO_TS, JACKET_P, VIDEO_TS, and I can't move JACKET_P anywhere. Does this matter? And how do I put the DVD-ROM content in? The whole "content" folder, or dump all the files in there, or what?

I burned it successfully before, but then I was impatient and said screw it, I want it now, and burned *only* the VIDEO_TS folder contents.


The folders will be written to the disc in the correct order, but most burning apps will display the contents in alphabetical order.

In terms of the rom content, I would keep it in a folder for neatness - I think 'officially' there shouldn't be any files in the root of a dvd-video disc, although I'm probably wrong considering Interactual puts an autorun.inf there. BTW, slightly off topic, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets has no AUDIO_TS folder.

The long and the short of it is that Nero will not / should not let you burn an illegal DVD-Video disc without at least giving you some warning.

DVD-Boy

Save London’s Curzon Soho Cinema

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I also use nero and when i burnt these to disc nero wouldnt let me put anything besides the vob and such files in (basically could only put the files for the video_ts folder) i couldnt put on the Jacket_P, Contents, or DVDRom folder

some searching and i found this a program called imgTool you can get it from http://www.coujo.de/

it allowed me to burn everything on the disc and the disc played fine. it actually uses the nero burning engine to do the actual burning

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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You don't even need that program. Just use Nero but burn a data DVD. Despite Nero whinging that it won't create a disc that dvd players will read, it will work fine.
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As I said, Nero was happy to burn to DVD+R, but not DVD-R for some reason. I tried removing everything except the VIDEO_TS directory and still no dice. Like I say, it'll burn to DVD+R but Nero simply says it's not suitable for burning to DVD-R.

I've never seen this before in a couple of years doing stuff with DVD video.

I rarely bother to burn the Jacket_P and Content folders as they don't really do me much good and might confuse some older players.

As I say, it's not the end of the world since Editdroid isn't anamorphic and therefore isn't much use to me except as part os a collection.