The Place to Go for Emotional Support — Page 20

Chewtobacca said:

Mike O, do you at least have a friend to whom you can talk about your problems?

EDIT: I mean a real-world friend, not someone online. Tyrphanax is right that we all support you but that there’s only so much that we can do.

Not many. A couple, and my family.

Tyrphanax said:

Mike O said:

Tyrphanax said:

Mike O said:

The puns are fun, but this is some seriously scary stuff for me. I’m worried that I might approaching some sort of breakdown.

I was being serious. If it’s seriously scary, you need to talk to someone. We’re all here to back you up, but we can’t provide much more than platitudes over the internet. You gotta take care of yourself and there is no shame in seeing someone who’s been to school for many years to help someone with your issues.

I’m looking into it, but unfortunately it’s a holiday weekend, so it’s going to be a while before anyone is even open. I opened up to my mother, and she’s been appropriately sympathetic and is trying to help as well. But even if we do get someone, who knows if said mental health professional will be compatible with me or even be able to help? I have to work in five minutes, and it’s hard to function this way day-to-day.

I can’t make guarantees, but if you’re really serious about the therapy and are truly tired of your situation, then you’ll be willing to do the work necessary to make progress. It’s not going to be easy or overnight, but it certainly can work.

I know intellectually that I’m going to have to do the heavy lifting, that it takes time and effort, and that it’s hard, but I’m worried that I’m going to look at therapy as some sort of cure-all and be angry after a couple of sessions if I’m not magically better. I just don’t want to think about this anymore. I was never deeply religious enough to be having some sort of theological crisis which has inexplicably manifested itself after reading stupid forum posts. I respect other peoples’ beliefs, and had my own. My parents never rode me about it, my friends never rode me about it, I was able to intellectually compartmentalize it and function perfectly fine. I want my mind back! I want to be able to come home from work and watch a movie or read a book without worrying about the problem of evil. I want to be able to clear off my DVR without constantly obsessing about things that have puzzled philosophers for thousands of years. I want to be able to enjoy my life again. I want to be able to relax. I want to be able to smile. I want to be able to stop thinking about things when I want to.

Just a little background to get this off of my chest: I was brought up Catholic. It gave me an exceptional private school education (extremely pro-science), a strong understanding of morality, and a good sense of community. No, I don’t believe that what I was taught was the only truth. Yes, I believe that an atheist is perfectly capable of being a moral person. I respect other peoples’ beliefs, and as I had my doubts, my beliefs mutated into something a bit more deistic. I look at these many different interpretations of things as a sort of path to spirituality, and thought they I saw my idea of God in beauty and aesthetics. I was fine with this viewpoint. It comforted me and seem a happy intermediary. I guess on some level you could argue that since I found some atheistic arguments more convincing than some theistic ones, I had some sort of cognitive dissonance where I feel like it was some kind of divine punishment for doubt or something, but no one has ever said that to me, so if that’s the case, then it’s something in my unconscious mind.

I don’t sneer at faith and tell people they believe in Santa Claus and magic men and bullshit about zombies and talking snakes. My mother’s faith is all that sustains her sometimes. It gives her hope. It gives her strength. It gives her purpose. I don’t denigrate that. I admire, even envy it. As I stopped going to church quite so regularly, she never rode me about it. No one has ever told me I was going to hell or given me an “accept Christ into your heart” speech or anything. It’s a strong part of my cultural upbringing, but it’s not like I feel isolated in any way. On the contrary, it gave me a strong sense of community.

I definitely don’t go with the Catholic church on some moral or social issues. I’m pretty leftist politically and far from the Church on many issues, and certainly not politically aligned with most of my family. I’m fairly quiet about it, not because I feel persecuted, but because I feel it’s largely personal. I’ve never used my religious beliefs or lack of religious beliefs to justify any viewpoints or argue with anyone. One of my best friends is agnostic. He told me that, I shrugged, and we didn’t talk about it anymore. It wasn’t a huge rift in our friendship or anything. Faith comes in many forms, and it isn’t for everybody and is different for everybody. I certainly wouldn’t begrudge a person who saw suffering or had an unimaginable loss or pain in his life for losing faith. I understand that. This was my personal spirituality and theology. If there’s an afterlife, I’ll find out the same way everybody else does, and I certainly don’t believe such an idea is necessary for someone to want to behave morally or make the world a better place. I liked also how the beliefs I grew up with gave me an understanding of a lot of the underpinnings of lots of art, from fun stuff like Supernatural to heavy stuff like Paradise Lost. I was cool with this.

Years ago, I came across various things online about “zombie Jesus, cannibalistic communion,” and all of the usual rhetoric. It was good for me to have doubts, and I was good for me to rethink, even if most involved were assholes. After a certain point, I made a vow to stay far away from this kind of thing, and never click on anything that I knew would lead to religious discussion. I broke this rule a month or two ago on DVD Talk, stumbling into a gigantic, sprawling debate, with a lot of the nastier side of the rhetoric. I cannot emphasize enough how much I believe in freedom of speech and peoples’ rights to say such things, I just wish I hadn’t clicked on it. But I did. And I can’t undo what it did. I followed a few links in it as well (I didn’t participate in any discussion personally), and it led me down the rabbit hole of various atheist websites and YouTube videos.

All of the arguments about these topics have been thoroughly mined, and I’ve heard all of this stuff before. Hell, I heard it all the time on House, Bones, True Detective. I was always able to watch and observe enough intellectual distance to enjoy the shows. Lately, my obsessive compulsive disorder, never previously this bad, has manifested itself as an odd form of scrupulosity, constantly watching atheist-theist debates on YouTube or angry atheist memes or Googling various things I knew would upset me like “God is evil” or “Religion is stupid.” I physically felt Unable to stop myself from looking at these things, know they would upset me further, but also feeling an odd temporary relief from the compulsions. It’s the most masochist thing imaginable.

I’ve had enough. I don’t have a Bible by my bedside, so it’s not like this was ever a big component of my life. It’s manifested itself completely Suddenly, and it’s literally ruining my life. My appetite is destroyed. I can’t watch the programs on my DVR. I’ve tried my usual method for Turning my mind from such things-gaming with audiobooks-but it won’t help. I can’t stop. I can’t escape. It’s consuming my mind. Customers at work are starting to comment on how I look or that I seems sick or don’t talk as much as I used to.

I have real-world problems: a job that makes me unhappy, sexual dissatisfaction, personal feelings about my place in life. These seem far more worth worrying about that what I’ve describe above. What I’ve talked about is worth thinking about, but it’s not worth allowing it destroy my life and occupy every moment. I love film. I want to watch movies again. I want to be able to wake up and not fear the day, do my job and not feel like my mind is being eaten.

When I opened up to my mother about this, she was unexpectedly kind and sympathetic. Now that the holiday weekend is over, she’s looking for a therapist for me. She’s loving. My father is loving. My family is loving. I have a middle class home where I live in comfort (And air-conditioning!). Why is this happening to me? Why can’t I make it stop? I feel like my head will explode. I can’t feel better. I can’t fix it. God, it’s horrible.

EDIT: I finally got a day off work and slept in until 2:00. More compulsions. It’s getting worse. It’s getting harder. My parents are both shrink-hunting for me. I wish I could take a pill and just sleep. I wouldn’t have to think if I was still asleep. This is getting harder and harder to deal with.

You seem like an intelligent, articulate person with a decent philosophy towards life. You have an awareness of what you’re doing and what reality is, you just feel unable to control it. That’s how this thing works. But you sound pretty fed up with it, and this is the perfect time to do what you’re trying to do. You’re also lucky to have such supportive parents, so don’t be afraid to continue being open with them.

The internet is a funny thing in that it can really feed compulsive and addictive behaviors. I see it in my brother a lot, hell I see it in myself and I’m nearly a zero on the OCD spectrum. You just have to be careful with those rabbit holes (which I know is silly to say considering the nature of the affliction), do your best to identify when you’re being driven by compulsion, maybe even keep a record of your rituals for your therapist.

What you need to do is copy what you wrote down up there and read it off to your therapist when you find one. That’s the kind of stuff they like to hear, and it’ll help them to understand you and what’s going on with you. Just go in with an open mind and be willing keep no secrets and to work your ass off. Maybe it’ll take a few tries, but that’s anything in life. You have to keep trying. Look for a psychologist who specializes in Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy (CBT), don’t be afraid of medication, but don’t settle with one that doesn’t work for you, and just generally be active in your therapy.

You can do this because I’ve seen it done before.

Well, my mother set me up to talk to a friend of her’s tomorrow, saying that we’ll look into professional therapy after that. Not what I’d have preferred, but one step at a time. She insists that if I get some help, it should be a Catholic therapist. I’m not against this, but worry that she doesn’t quite realize that my views aren’t quite with her’s, and this that could move sideways. So a new problem. Just what I need. I think I made things worse instead of better.

Now she’s extremely Upset, thinking that I’m abandoning my beliefs and running screaming towards atheism. I don’t perceive it this way, and I don’t think her views on he situation are fair, but it kills me when I hurt her. I’ve made the situation hundreds of times worse.

While I, personally, feel like religion being interjected into these processes likely dilutes their efficacy, if you feel like it may help you to work through them, then by all means do it. If you don’t feel that way, then, again, it’s your well-being and you need to put that first. Things may be rocky, but the people who love you will adapt.

If you’re a dependent, however, and you live with them, it’s best to keep things smooth and diplomatic. Maybe strike some deal where you see a secular psychologist but also assuage her fears by agreeing to some form of religious something or other? I honestly don’t know what the best option would be, and I can’t really tell you what to say. Just be insistent but understanding and open.

I wouldn’t say you’ve made things worse, these things just need to be massaged and dealt with in a diplomatic fashion. As your mother, the hope is that she will eventually realize that your well-being is more important than her desires for your religious beliefs.

All parents eventually go through this sort of “disappointment” at some point in their parenting careers: whether their child is gay, religious, not religious, not a fan of their favourite sports team, didn’t get into their university, a Liberal Arts Major rather than a doctor, doesn’t want children, moves out of state/country, or a million other things, something you do will disappoint them and they will cope with it, come to terms with it, and hopefully move on. You must do what is best for your mental heath, whatever it may be.

Tyrphanax said:

While I, personally, feel like religion being interjected into these processes likely dilutes their efficacy, if you feel like it may help you to work through them, then by all means do it. If you don’t feel that way, then, again, it’s your well-being and you need to put that first. Things may be rocky, but the people who love you will adapt.

My mother has never been one for adapting very well, religion for her is simply too powerful a component in her life. When she insisted that I see a Catholic therapist, and I told her that I wanted someone more impartial, she became extremely angry, thinking that I was asking for an atheist (which I never said) so that they could push their views onto me, as if I needed to be pushed back towards her views.

If you’re a dependent, however, and you live with them, it’s best to keep things smooth and diplomatic. Maybe strike some deal where you see a secular psychologist but also assuage her fears by agreeing to some form of religious something or other? I honestly don’t know what the best option would be, and I can’t really tell you what to say. Just be insistent but understanding and open.

I’m almost 29 and still live at home. I’m so stunted. My brother definitely went his own way in life, and my mother perceives the fact that he and I don’t share her level of religious faith as a personal failure after all of her years of instilling it in us. It genuinely upsets her and makes her feel like a personal failure. I crushes me to hurt her. I love mother more than anything in the entire world. She’s literally given her whole life to me, every day after long work shifts she would sit down and help me with my homework, she feeds me, clothes me, shelters me, paid for 16 years of private school education for me. I hate hurting her. Maybe it’s at the root of the problem: by even watching some of these anti-religious videos, maybe it unconsciously felt like a betrayal of her. I simply felt like I couldn’t stop, some sort of obsessive compulsive manifestation.

I wouldn’t say you’ve made things worse, these things just need to be massaged and dealt with in a diplomatic fashion. As your mother, the hope is that she will eventually realize that your well-being is more important than her desires for your religious beliefs.

I hope so. She’s had the entire lives of my brother and I to accept that we don’t have her religious fervor, and it seems to crush her all the same. She perceives the situation as an immediate desire for atheism on my part, as if I want to become Richard Dawkins. I don’t perceive the situation this way, I certainly don’t want to “battle against religion” or denigrate her beliefs, but I simply don’t hold them as strongly and I’m a different place spiritually. I wish I could figure out the root of this whole problem, since I already knew all about these anti-religious polemical sand simply was able to ignore them previously. It’s not something which effects my life personally, why can I not simply put it on a shelf intellectually like I used to?!

All parents eventually go through this sort of “disappointment” at some point in their parenting careers: whether their child is gay, religious, not religious, not a fan of their favourite sports team, didn’t get into their university, a Liberal Arts Major rather than a doctor, doesn’t want children, moves out of state/country, or a million other things, something you do will disappoint them and they will cope with it, come to terms with it, and hopefully move on. You must do what is best for your mental heath, whatever it may be.

I don’t know, she’s literally had my whole life to cope with it. I simply think her faith is too strong for her to see around it. I don’t, as I have repeatedly Said, mean this to ride her about it or criticize her for it, simply that I’m in a different place than her. I want to curl up in a ball and cry. I don’t know what to do anymore. I thought talking to her about it would make things better, not worse. I have people where I work making comments about how I don’t look well. It’s like my mind is being destroyed. It’s horrible.

I feel like my head is going to explode.

I just slipped again. This is horrible. I can’t stop. It’s getting worse.

I’m so bad at dealing with religion in this aspect because it honestly makes no sense to me and is thus a very simple “choice”, so I’m afraid I won’t be much help in terms of how you deal with your mother about this aside from what I said before about being insistent but respectful. Maybe tell her what you’ve told us here? It sounds like she’s overreacting a bit (my mom was this way for a long time in terms of taking things very very personally) and maybe she could be calmed down with honesty and talk about feelings. I honestly don’t know.

What I do know is you must do what you need to do for your health in the end. Keeping yourself sick for the benefit of others is never a good plan.

Also, don’t worry too much about the living with your parents thing. I’ve recently been going through some dark times and moved back in with my parents, and I’ll be 27 in August. So you’re not alone there.

Just had an attack so bad that my hands and face went numb. I literally started talking to myself to try to call it down. The the weird religious OCD which has NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM BEFORE IN MY FUCKING LIFE started spiking really badly. I have to go work in 60 seconds. This is fucking special. Just great.

You’ll ultimately just have to come to terms with whatever you believe.

moviefreakedmind said:

You’ll ultimately just have to come to terms with whatever you believe.

I’m not sure if I can do that. I don’t get why this is happening. It’s not like anyone has ever told me that I’m going to hell if I doubt or something, and like I said, all the stuff I’d previously mentioned meant that I’d come to terms with all of this. I don’t need to solve every philophical problem in ten minutes. It feel like my mind is being destroyed.

That’s what I meant, you’ll have to come to terms with what you believe, don’t believe, and don’t understand.

I think I’m going to die…

Lots of times mental disorders only manifest/compound in the 20s.

I knew a guy who was fairly normal for the entire time I knew him, until he had a massive schizophrenic break in his mid 20s and went completely off the rails.

Keep forging ahead. Don’t give up. Find your own professional if nobody else will do it for you.

Tyrphanax said:

Lots of times mental disorders only manifest/compound in the 20s.

I knew a guy who was fairly normal for the entire time I knew him, until he had a massive schizophrenic break in his mid 20s and went completely off the rails.

The same thing happened to a very talented man I once knew. I swear he could’ve been a famous musician one day.

Chewtobacca said:

Mike O said:
I just slipped again. This is horrible. I can’t stop. It’s getting worse.

You might try to find some way of limiting your internet access so that you’re not tempted to look at things that distress you. I know it’s hard, but you’re going to have to stop yourself from accessing these videos in the same way that someone who is trying to lose weight mustn’t have certain foods in the house. What you have described is almost certainly a form of obsession, but it also sounds like a kind of addiction too, so you have to avoid people, places, and paraphernalia – in other words, anything that might cause you to slip.

Sound advice.

Chewtobacca said:

Mike O said:
I just slipped again. This is horrible. I can’t stop. It’s getting worse.

You might try to find some way of limiting your internet access so that you’re not tempted to look at things that distress you. I know it’s hard, but you’re going to have to stop yourself from accessing these videos in the same way that someone who is trying to lose weight mustn’t have certain foods in the house. What you have described is almost certainly a form of obsession, but it also sounds like a kind of addiction too, so you have to avoid people, places, and paraphernalia – in other words, anything that might cause you to slip.

I don’t know how to articulate this, but I feel like I CAN’T stop. It’s incredibly stupid, but it feels like some sort of physical compulsion. Like a need. To do something which I know will upset me. It’s so stupid. All of this stuff is old anyway. These arguments-on both sides-have been pretty throughly run through. Hell, I went through them in philosophy classes in school endlessly. I don’t want to think about this anymore!! I outlined my personal spiritual beliefs above. That’s what I think. I went through all of this shit before! I came to these conclusions! It just endlessly circular! I can hear the sneering atheists arguing that I’m attempting to convince myself of something I “know” is “wrong,” but as outlined above, I don’t see it that way. And so what? How does theological debate help me with my day-to-day life? I’d give my soul to the devil to take back the forum posts that caused this whole debacle. I want to be able to watch a television show which depicts or has characters talking about these issues and observe the intellectual distance I did previously. I want to be able to read books and comic again, watch movies again, watch TV again, do things I enjoy again without this literally gnawing away at my mind. But I can’t. It’s horrifying. I can’t stop! I don’t know how to take this to a therapist because I have absolutely no idea what she’ll say! My mother found one, we’re checking if my insurance covers her. She’s well-reviewed. I want to cry, to sob. I’m tired of this. I want it to stop! I want to just go to sleep. Stay asleep so this will stop. It’s so horrible.

It’s not stupid. It’s just how it works. You know it’s not a rational thing, and yet you are compulsively driven to it. It’s hard for us “normal” people (I only have some understanding of it because of my brother) to understand why you can’t just put it down or tune it out or walk away, but you just can’t. I said Chewie’s advice was sound, which it is, but a lot of times it’s not possible without help.

A lot of times there’s a feeling that horrible consequences will occur if certain actions aren’t undertaken perfectly. A not-uncommon one is that a family member will die or a meteor will strike the earth if you don’t turn the lights off “properly” or if you don’t walk through a doorway in the “correct” way. There are intrusive thoughts that can only be “controlled” when rituals are properly executed.

We all have goofy rituals and superstitions, but the thing is that most of us can say "okay, that’s enough) and walk away. People with OCD can’t do that, though. The difference between my compulsion to rotate the point of a pen on my desk away from me (just in case it decides to grow a rocket and embed itself in my sternum) or to reveal 100% of the map in a video game and my brother’s compulsion to put something in the fridge the right way is that I don’t have to do it whereas he feels like he has to, to an obsessive degree wherein he’ll put the sour cream in the fridge, take it out, put it back in, and repeat until it feels “right”. He knows it’s not a necessary or rational thing to do, but he lacks the the ability we have to just stop. It’s a way for him to control his environment.

For Mike here it seems like he has intrusive thoughts about religion (not uncommon either, moral issues are often a big trigger for OCD) and the only way he can calm them is to delve into research about the issues. It’s not even a religious thing and has nothing to do with whether it’s right or wrong or whatever, this is just how his OCD has manifested at this time. If he were to deny the compulsion to delve into internet discussions or research on the topics, I’m sure the intrusive thoughts would be an even more unbearable buzzing in his head, which is why he needs to find a professional who can really help him understand this and walk him through the process of identifying his triggers and controlling them.

Mike O said:

Chewtobacca said:

Mike O said:
I just slipped again. This is horrible. I can’t stop. It’s getting worse.

You might try to find some way of limiting your internet access so that you’re not tempted to look at things that distress you. I know it’s hard, but you’re going to have to stop yourself from accessing these videos in the same way that someone who is trying to lose weight mustn’t have certain foods in the house. What you have described is almost certainly a form of obsession, but it also sounds like a kind of addiction too, so you have to avoid people, places, and paraphernalia – in other words, anything that might cause you to slip.

I don’t know how to articulate this, but I feel like I CAN’T stop. It’s incredibly stupid, but it feels like some sort of physical compulsion. Like a need. To do something which I know will upset me. It’s so stupid. All of this stuff is old anyway. These arguments-on both sides-have been pretty throughly run through. Hell, I went through them in philosophy classes in school endlessly. I don’t want to think about this anymore!! I outlined my personal spiritual beliefs above. That’s what I think. I went through all of this shit before! I came to these conclusions! It just endlessly circular! I can hear the sneering atheists arguing that I’m attempting to convince myself of something I “know” is “wrong,” but as outlined above, I don’t see it that way. And so what? How does theological debate help me with my day-to-day life? I’d give my soul to the devil to take back the forum posts that caused this whole debacle. I want to be able to watch a television show which depicts or has characters talking about these issues and observe the intellectual distance I did previously. I want to be able to read books and comic again, watch movies again, watch TV again, do things I enjoy again without this literally gnawing away at my mind. But I can’t. It’s horrifying. I can’t stop! I don’t know how to take this to a therapist because I have absolutely no idea what she’ll say! My mother found one, we’re checking if my insurance covers her. She’s well-reviewed. I want to cry, to sob. I’m tired of this. I want it to stop! I want to just go to sleep. Stay asleep so this will stop. It’s so horrible.

I feel your pain man. Please hang in there. Know you’re not alone in this. You’ve got some pals here who care. And you’ve got some good advice so far. But this fight’s a bit higher than you’re ready for. So I’m glad you’ve got your mother’s help in this. Man if mine had been around when I was going off the rails. Holy ****.

But on the side of religion it’s cool to believe in God. It’s a fine thing to want to hope for a future beyond the future end. Have you tried praying your rosary lately? I mean sometimes it was the only thing keeping me from pulling out my own hair. Try some time in adoration or in Church. Quiet time. Alone and in prayer. Ask your mom to bring you to a place like that. A calming place away from computers and phones and screens.

I don’t know what else to say. Just need to flip a switch somewhere in your head. Need to get you into a calmer place. Then maybe the rational can start feeding you again. Wish I could hold you man. Wish I could console you. But all I’ve got is words.

Still. I’ll pray for you. It can’t hurt.

Peace Mike.

-Trident

Got on the phone today and found a place which would take my insurance, and their price is good. Unfortunately, I had another really bad attack, and they’re getting worse, this time fixated on Dan Barker, an evangelical preacher turned militant atheism activist who makes Christopher Hitchens look like a priest. Again, feel like I can’t stop. The guy has a particularly militarized rhetoric, which is fine, and beliefs he’s entitled to and free to espouse, but my obsession is starting to worsen. It was better last night and then it spiked up this morning. I feel sick to my stomach. This is destroying my appetite. I really want to stay asleep and stop getting up in the morning. Can therapy really help with this? I don’t know anymore. I want to cry in he corner. I feel the compulsion again even though I’ve indulged it several times in the last couple minutes. I can’t make it stop. I don’t think a therapist can help. I don’t think anything can help. It’s starting again. God, I wish I hadn’t woken up this morning.

It’s starting again: “It’s destroying my faith! If he’s a former preacher, he must be right! Oh, God! Look at all of the comments! Here are more video links!”

What’s being discussed, as I mentioned, isn’t necessarily even what I believe (as outlined above, my own views are broader and more different). But it still eats away at my mind. Now I’m going “Well, therapy can’t help, because he’s disproven my “beliefs!” The therapist can’t tell me something to restore my faith! I’m doomed!”

God Almighty, help me. I have to work in 60 seconds. I CANNOT stop. This is destroying me. I wish I hadn’t woken up this morning. This is horrible. A few months ago, I’d gone through all of this and come out the other end as what I described above. Now I’m in this hell, and it IS a hell.