Worst villain: The Emperor

Maybe not the worst, but he’s pretty close. We don’t get much of him in ESB so I can’t say he’s a good or bad villain. But in ROTJ he seems incredibly idiotic. Luke is about to kill Vader, but the Emperor interrupts him and essentially says, “Yes, kill your father so you can take his place at my side and be an evil, miserable POS for the rest of your life.”
He’s not clever AT ALL.

He taunts Luke saying that all his friends are gonna die, the rebel alliance will be destroyed. Luke is starting to feel anger and fear. Then the Emperor, instead of playing up the threat Luke’s friends face, he then says, “Yes, strike down, so you’re turn to the dark side will be complete.”
Obviously, the Emperor does not want to die. It’s pretty obvious that Luke should do the exact OPPOSITE of whatever the Emperor is saying.

I kind of wish he had more depth to him. Villains with vague motivations and unrevealed origins are fine, but at least make them visually interesting. Palpatine is just an old man in a black robe.

Why does he want to dominate the galaxy? He’s just a cackling, comic book villain, who’s just evil for the sake of evil. I like Star Wars, but he’s definitely not a very good villain. I did like his appearance in Strider though.

Voss Caltrez said:

Maybe not the worst, but he’s pretty close. We don’t get much of him in ESB so I can’t say he’s a good or bad villain. But in ROTJ he seems incredibly idiotic. Luke is about to kill Vader, but the Emperor interrupts him and essentially says, “Yes, kill your father so you can take his place at my side and be an evil, miserable POS for the rest of your life.”

Pompous =/= idiotic

He taunts Luke saying that all his friends are gonna die, the rebel alliance will be destroyed. Luke is starting to feel anger and fear. Then the Emperor, instead of playing up the threat Luke’s friends face, he then says, “Yes, strike down, so you’re turn to the dark side will be complete.”
Obviously, the Emperor does not want to die. It’s pretty obvious that Luke should do the exact OPPOSITE of whatever the Emperor is saying.

Given that Vader was there he said that knowing if Luke struck out in anger Vader would be there to protect him…which is exactly what happened. He only said those things so that Luke can cross the line of striking down an unarmed person out of spite.

A Jedi uses The Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack. - Yoda

and I’m pretty sure that quote extends to using a lightsaber as well.

I kind of wish he had more depth to him. Villains with vague motivations and unrevealed origins are fine, but at least make them visually interesting. Palpatine is just an old man in a black robe.

He didn’t have to be anything more than the ultimate form of evil. Also he didn’t need to be a testicle monster with laser beams shooting out of his eyes

Why does he want to dominate the galaxy?

For the same reasons anyone has wanted to dominate the galaxy…to shape the way the Galaxy operates as you see fit, to dominate the destinies of all those within your grasp. To acquire a near infinite repository of knowledge, wealth and anything else you desire.

He’s not the worst villain – not even close – but I do admit that neither Ian McDiarmid’s performance or the way the character is written in ROTJ captivate me as much as they used to. I think I would have preferred Clive Revill’s return, along with better characterization.

NeverarGreat said:

The real Palpatine is safely on Coruscant this whole time drinking thousand-year-old wine and chuckling quietly to himself.

Would that even be safe to drink? Is it even possible to age a wine to be that old?

I’m not an old guy with Grey hair, so I can’t say whether or not the energy field that binds the galaxy together is capable of being used in such an application.

Lord Haseo said:
Given that Vader was there he said that knowing if Luke struck out in anger Vader would be there to protect him…which is exactly what happened. He only said those things so that Luke can cross the line of striking down an unarmed person out of spite.

Yeah, but wouldn’t it make more sense to taunt someone without saying admitting exactly what you want them to do? I mean, Luke’s not a child.
And Vader being right there only adds to the obviousness of what Luke should NOT do. It would have made more sense if he tried to convince Luke that the Empire was right in it’s actions, and that the dark side of the Force was the only way to maintain order among the chaos that is the universe. I know I’m asking a lot of what is essentially a kids fantasy film, but the script, dialogue, and acting was so well done in The Empire Strikes Back, and the story seemed to be more mature than A New Hope, that I would have expected (in hindsight of course) that ROTJ would continue that upward direction.

He didn’t have to be anything more than the ultimate form of evil. Also he didn’t need to be a testicle monster with laser beams shooting out of his eyes

But he didn’t come across as the ultimate form of evil. He the ultimate cliche of Saturday Morning Cartoon villainy. He’s Mr. Burns. And you don’t need to design a testicle monster with laser beam eyes to be visually interesting.

For the same reasons anyone has wanted to dominate the galaxy…to shape the way the Galaxy operates as you see fit, to dominate the destinies of all those within your grasp. To acquire a near infinite repository of knowledge, wealth and anything else you desire.

It seems like Anakin and the Emperor have different reasons. Anakin wants power so he could stop people, like his mother, from being killed. He grew up in an unfair world where people could be bought and sold as slaves. He feared that his wife would die like his mother, so he wanted more power fro the Force to prevent it from happening.
Vader, pre-prequel trilogy, seemed to just want order, and later, he wanted to rule with his reunited son.

The Emperor in the prequels though, just seems to want “unlimited powaaaaaaa.” We don’t know anything else about him. In the OT we know even less. And again, that works for a lot of fictional characters, but the build up to his formal introduction in the third Star Wars film seems pretty anti-climactic and boring.

flametitan said:

NeverarGreat said:

The real Palpatine is safely on Coruscant this whole time drinking thousand-year-old wine and chuckling quietly to himself.

Would that even be safe to drink? Is it even possible to age a wine to be that old?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speyer_wine_bottle

Frank your Majesty said:

Why would Obi-Wan tell the Stormtroopers “These are not the droids you’re looking for”? Letting them know that he knows that they are looking for droids seems kind of suspicious, doesn’t it?

Oh snap, the Emperor was trying to use a Jedi mind trick, or in this case, a Sith mind trick on Luke! Okay…I get that whole scene now.

I would say the worst villain is George Lucas

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

flametitan said:

Is it even possible to age a wine to be that old?

We’ll use the force.

That’s not how the force works.

HansiG said:

I would say the worst villain is George Lucas

You’ve obviously never met the hybrid clone of Bush and Trump.

Voss Caltrez said:
Yeah, but wouldn’t it make more sense to taunt someone without saying admitting exactly what you want them to do? I mean, Luke’s not a child.

Sure but putting the thought in his mind can also be effective; maybe not as much but still.

It would have made more sense if he tried to convince Luke that the Empire was right in it’s actions, and that the dark side of the Force was the only way to maintain order among the chaos that is the universe. I know I’m asking a lot of what is essentially a kids fantasy film, but the script, dialogue, and acting was so well done in The Empire Strikes Back, and the story seemed to be more mature than A New Hope, that I would have expected (in hindsight of course) that ROTJ would continue that upward direction.

No argument here brother. I have said this at least a couple of times on this forum. Funny thing is one of the only great scenes in the PT is the Opera House scene where Anakin and Palpatine discuss the philosophical differences between the Jedi and the Sith.

But he didn’t come across as the ultimate form of evil. He the ultimate cliche of Saturday Morning Cartoon villainy.

I don’t think a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain is going to torture his apprentice’s son via electrocution in front of him. That far exceeds any Saturday Morning Cartoon villain…

And you don’t need to design a testicle monster with laser beam eyes to be visually interesting.

Nor do you have to be extremely ugly or tall. I mean him being older Bernie Sanders and John Mccain combined is visually interesting enough for me.

It seems like Anakin and the Emperor have different reasons. Anakin wants power so he could stop people, like his mother, from being killed. He grew up in an unfair world where people could be bought and sold as slaves. He feared that his wife would die like his mother, so he wanted more power fro the Force to prevent it from happening.
Vader, pre-prequel trilogy, seemed to just want order, and later, he wanted to rule with his reunited son.

Yeah but in ROTS he tells Padme that he can overthrow the Chancellor and they can rule the Galaxy together. Molding the Galaxy in their own vision.

The Emperor in the prequels though, just seems to want “unlimited powaaaaaaa.”

That isn’t an issue. He’s the reigning Dark Lord of The Sith. The Sith want to conquer thus Palpatine wants to as well. There’s no reason to give him a rich backstory that which gives him numerous motives as to why he would want to rule. Darth Sidious is not like Darth Vader or Kylo Ren who are 3 dimensional characters so there’s really no reason to elaborate more beyond the “normal” reasons one would want to rule the Galaxy.

WTF are you talking about? The Emperor is awesome. He’s by far the most fun character in all of Star Wars to imitate and he’s endlessly quotable. Plus he just takes so much joy in being pure evil. I mean look how giddy he gets when he says “Everything is proceeding as I have forseen” and then cackles maniacally. It’s just glorious. Ian McDiarmid is awesome. He elevated ROTJ in every scene he was in and he made the prequels watchable. Just some beautiful scenery chewing all around. The only comparison I can think of is when Al Pacino literally played the Devil in The Devil’s Advocate. Just insane over the top evil, but it’s perfect for the character. He basically is the Devil of the Star Wars universe. Not everybody has to have deep characterization and complex motives in a classic good vs. evil fantasy story like Star Wars. Palpatine wants “unlimited power” and that’s really all we need to know.

I consider Pacino’s Satan more of an antivillain than a straightforward villain, but whatever. *shrug*

He is the walking personification of hubris (i’m going to miss stupid EU Sith Lord names like Darth Ubris btw). Jedi is the least of the OT film but as silly as what the Emperor says is Ian McDiamid does it with such style that it’s easier forgiven. Just like Ben being a crap mentor but played by Alec Guinness.

Um Episode 3 is the one where he most over the top evil monster man. “UNNNNNLIMITED POWEERRRRRRRRR!!!”

Lord Haseo said:

Yeah but in ROTS he tells Padme that he can overthrow the Chancellor and they can rule the Galaxy together. Molding the Galaxy in their own vision.

Yes, but it’s in context of what Anakain has gone through.

That isn’t an issue. He’s the reigning Dark Lord of The Sith. The Sith want to conquer thus Palpatine wants to as well. There’s no reason to give him a rich backstory that which gives him numerous motives as to why he would want to rule. Darth Sidious is not like Darth Vader or Kylo Ren who are 3 dimensional characters so there’s really no reason to elaborate more beyond the “normal” reasons one would want to rule the Galaxy.

It’s not an issue for you, for me it is. And I’ve already said, you can keep the character vague and mysterious but there have been much more successful executions at doing that. I don’t view The Emperor as seen in ROTJ, and in most of ROTS comes across as mysterious but interesting.

Density said:

WTF are you talking about? The Emperor is awesome. He’s by far the most fun character in all of Star Wars to imitate and he’s endlessly quotable. Plus he just takes so much joy in being pure evil. I mean look how giddy he gets when he says “Everything is proceeding as I have forseen” and then cackles maniacally. It’s just glorious. Ian McDiarmid is awesome. He elevated ROTJ in every scene he was in and he made the prequels watchable. Just some beautiful scenery chewing all around. The only comparison I can think of is when Al Pacino literally played the Devil in The Devil’s Advocate. Just insane over the top evil, but it’s perfect for the character. He basically is the Devil of the Star Wars universe. Not everybody has to have deep characterization and complex motives in a classic good vs. evil fantasy story like Star Wars. Palpatine wants “unlimited power” and that’s really all we need to know.

I find it fun to imitate him because he’s unintentionally funny. The expressions he makes in ROTS when he’s fighting the Jedi for example. Or when he says “Dyew it.”

Ian McDiarmid is awesome though, I agree. I don’t like his portrayal, but for what he was shooting for, he nailed it. The interview where he’s explaining that Lucas wanted him to imitate the voice in ESB, and instead, he thought the Emperoror’s voice should sound sepulchral makes me appreciate his performance more.

But he’s NOT the Devil of the Star Wars universe, because even the Christian Devil, as we know him, has a past and a motivation which makes him interesting. He was formerly an angel who led a rebellion against God, and justified his loss by saying, “better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven.” Also, the Devil is known to be the father of lies, the ultimate deceiver. The Emperor may have shown flashes of that in ROTS, manipulating Anakin into believing only the Sith could prevent death, and making it look like the Jedi were evil, even though his sincerity seems less than convincing.

However, in ROTJ, he’s completely unconvincing. He’s not the master manipulator, he’s telegraphing his intentions at nearly every point. Luke might have killed his father when he had him at his mercy, but Palpatine ruins that when he starts cackling loudly and saying, “Good…now fulfill your destiny and take your father’s place at my side.” It’s like he’s using reverse psychology to keep Luke on the RIGHT path.

I did like Ep. II/Attack of the Clones, when it seems like Count Dooku actually is not completely good or completely bad. It seemed like for a moment, there was a third faction involved in the war, one who was against the Republic, but also against the Sith. It turned out he was just lying, but even THAT was a better example of the Devil, than what we saw in the ROTJ Emperor. Dooku was trying to appeal to Obi-Wan’s connection to his mentor Qui-Gon, and mixing truth with falsehood.

It’s because the Emperor is so arrogant and mad with power that he doesn’t feel the need for subtlety. He’s a sadist who gets off on his power and control and evilness. Luke flat out says “Your overconfidence is your weakness” and that’s 100% true. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand.