JediExile said:
I interpret the scene as just assuring Snoke he won’t fail period.Why wouldn’t he just say “By the grace of your training I will not fail”? Saying he will not be seduced changes the entire landscape of the conversation
I disagree again, this is starting to go in circles a little lol.
While the Vader/Luke and Kylo/Han situations are similar, I think the Kylo and Han conflict is much more personal which is why I’m hesitant to even try to relate this scene back to the confrontation with the Emperor in RotJ. Kylo was raised by Han, Vader never even realized Luke existed until (I’m not really sure when he realized Luke was his son, I think the Emperor realized it before Vader did in ESB, but I can’t remember the scene for my life) 22 or so years after he was born. The emotional attachment, while there, isn’t as strong.
That doesn’t matter much because in some capacity Vader loved Luke to some degree and even Kylo feels something for Han seeing as how he was torn apart at the decision to kill him or not.
Vader did love Luke, but not nearly to the extent Han loved Kylo really. Kylo definitely feels something for Han, but I still wouldn’t compare that to the conflict between Vader and Luke.
And I think Kylo is a very different character from Vader in the sense that EVERYBODY IN THE FILM recognizes that he’s essentially just trying to be bad
Only Leia and Snoke thinks there’s still good in him. Han said there was too much Vader in him and that they lost their son forever and Rey calls him a creature in a mask and a monster. I don’t even know why you would capitalize such a blatantly false statement
Leia, Snoke, and Han feel that way. Although Han did say there’s too much Vader in him, he was the one that confronted him at the end because he saw an opportunity to get his son back. Rey does call him a creature in a mask yeah, you’re right. “Everybody in the film” is a pretty false statement, I guess that was projecting a little onto the film. Most of the people I’ve talked to get the idea that Kylo is just some kid trying to be something he isn’t. Anyways, the main characters who actually know Kylo feel that way though (minus Han now, maybe Leia I dunno we’ll have to see).
I don’t think it’s hard for anyone to look at Kylo and say “Yeah, he’s gonna redeem himself probably” (I really hope he doesn’t, but it seems inevitable really)
The only reason people think that is because Star Wars is supposed to be about hope and all that other sappy shit. From a narrative stand point Kylo did something Vader could never do and that was kill a loved one…much less in the vile way Kylo murdered Han.
Also there’s this quote
This just not the Force Awakens in a young woman; this is the Dark Side of The Force awakening in the villain - JJ Abrams
They could change things so that he’s even more conflicted in the sequels but what’s presented in TFA alone leads me to believe they’re setting Kylo up to be irredeemable.
Yeah like I said I really hope he doesn’t turn. It would make him a much more interesting villain, but we’ll see. He did kill Han and that gives me hope he won’t turn, but if Anakin could slaughter most of the Jedi and take part in blowing up a planet and STILL be redeemed, Kylo can too.
I’ll just say “Dark Jedi” or something in the future. Master of the Knights of Ren is a bit too long of a title for me.
You can also just call him a Knight of Ren. I also just call him a Dark Side Warrior so that there are no real factions tied into me calling him that.
Knight of Ren is okay too I guess. I really wonder what “Ren” is.
Now I know Kylo has a hard-on for power and admires Vader for being a badass cripple
Is the “cripple” thing necessary?
Yes, he is pretty much a crippled (more than physically) and I think it’s a really cool part about him. Anyone can be a badass in Star Wars, even if you’re horribly burned, a little green goblin guy, a big fuzzy dope, etc.but how did he make that stretch that Anakin Skywalker was truly himself when he was Darth Vader
Maybe because how he sees it Vader was born to the Dark Side and without Luke’s meddling he would have stayed there.
Speculation really, I just hope they’ll explain it in the sequel a little more.
I get that he’s not exactly emotionally stable, but nothing in the movie (well, aside from this scene I guess) points to him being a loony. If Kylo Ren said that he’s seen the power of Vader, I’m kind of inclined to believe him. I just don’t see him being completely bonkers, just an emotionally conflicted guy.
Just seeing how say “Han Solo can’t save you” and then going on to beat his wounds leads me to believe this guy is a bit off his nut.
I don’t see the issue with the “Han Solo can’t save you” line. Rey was emotionally attached to him and Kylo figured this out when he probed her mind earlier. Also the wound beating seemed more practical (at least in terms of Star Wars) than not. I always saw it as him inflicting more pain on himself to help himself draw from the dark side more. Very cool moment, I kind of wish he did that throughout the fight.
I think it would have made more sense if that happened and Finn was the one more comfortable in the seat, yeah.
That’s kind of true but technically it’s something he’s never used before. He didn’t even feel comfortable in the canon section of a TIE Fighter.
Yeah you’re right on that.
All this back and forth is making me nunb.
You seem annoyed at this conversation, why?