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StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread — Page 84

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thorr said:

I edited my comment above with more thoughts and everyone is still posting, so I thought I would mention it lol. Maybe what I am thinking of as matte lines is something different than what they are. When I was scanning the SE trailer, the Millenium Falcon was flying away from the Deathstar and I saw lines around it. Is that a matte line?

I think what you’re thinking of is garbage mattes, which are boxes around the elements. These were never MEANT to be noticed and are very hard to see with proper contrast, but are nonetheless visible and part of the film.

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Thanks. Yes, garbage mattes is what I am talking about. Right or wrong, those can go in my opinion, lol.

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 (Edited)

I wonder if it’s possible that they reconposited everything for the tech prints. It certainly seems to be a possibility because mike has talked about how the blue shadow on the text in the credits is different between tech prints, but the same across all other prints.

If that is the case, then the original negative used for Eastman prints wouldn’t have the misalignment, but the tech prints would.

I think that is highly unlikely - there is absolutely no reason for them to re-comp shots for IB tech and even if they did, the IB printing would still only be used to duplicate the finished shots - if the credits are different on the IBs, then it’s probably because they were made later than the US prints.
But it’s simple really - if the misalignment is a result of the IB printing, then it really shouldn’t be present on other prints and if there is any present on other prints, it must have been on the negative.

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Harmy said:

I wonder if it’s possible that they reconposited everything for the tech prints. It certainly seems to be a possibility because mike has talked about how the blue shadow on the text in the credits is different between tech prints, but the same across all other prints.

If that is the case, then the original negative used for Eastman prints wouldn’t have the misalignment, but the tech prints would.

I think that is highly unlikely - there is absolutely no reason for them to re-comp shots for IB tech and even if they did, the IB printing would still only be used to duplicate the finished shots - if the credits are different on the IBs, then it’s probably because they were made later than the US prints.
But it’s simple really - if the misalignment is a result of the IB printing, then it really shouldn’t be present on other prints and if there is any present on other prints, it must have been on the negative.

I’m not disagreeing, just posing a question of if it’s a possibility. I agree there’s no reason for them to have done that, but who knows.

Maybe Mike can clear up whether the alignment is present on other, non-IB prints? He only mentions the tech prints in the video, and I can’t imagine he would forget to check other prints for the proper channel alignment, but you never know I suppose. I’ll take a look at the SSE and see if I can find any evidence of this misalignment.

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So this is what we see on the SSE. There may be very slight channel misalignment on the starfield, but it’s very hard to tell due to the lower resolution being blown up and the general lower quality of the print and scan, but from what I’m seeing there isn’t much evidence of channel misalignment on the starfield, apart from some weirdness with the blue channel.

However, the channel misalignment is VERY visible on the x wings. This leads me to believe this is something that happened during the compositing of the elements.

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 (Edited)

Yep, what I’ve been saying all along 😉
But what to me is actually a more important point is that in Mike’s video, his final version, while it is higher quality, it just feels more fake due to loosing much of the grittiness of the original composite - the models just feel more like models, whereas the gritty untouched shot just feels more authentic - and I think the misalignment actually adds to that.

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 (Edited)

Personally, I simply trust Mike’s judgement, and expertise in this. I think all of his restorations look absolutely stunning.

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The misaligned shot looked awful to me, and personally I would one day like to see a remastered (not changed) version, where problems like these and garbage mattes are solved, sans special edition junk. Unlikely to happen anytime soon, but I can always dream.

Palpatine: Make the galaxy great again!

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I have been offline here for a few weeks…busy with real life (like Mike) but thought I would chime in. The nitpicking about what ‘should’ stay and ‘should’ go is irrelevant. The mattes will be staying because they are almost positively on the original negative. The only way to refute that would be to have that negative in your possession. As for mis-alignment…again…without the original negative its hard to get a definitive answer and Mike just has to go with his gut on that one.

As the final word in this…I would have to point out the obvious:

This is Mike’s baby…and has been…for 15 years. He can do…and will do…what he feels is best for HIS restoration. Don’t like it? Buy some prints and do it yourself. I’m sure I speak for most of the OT people here and say we are in awe of what Mike has accomplished, and only wish him the best for his presentation in the near future.

oh wait…we also wish we could get a copy…by any means necessary. 😃 I have to admit that I’m frothing at the mouth for a copy. Doing so would immediately have the effect of me throwing out multiple dvd/br of official releases that I own and settling down to watch Legacy on my nice 60" tv with all my friends…drop-jawed and in heaven.

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^ I think this will never happen…

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I think the acid test will be more previews. So far Mike’s Vimeo had no shots of faces, or any of the basic action. It’s just effects shots or matte paintings. So far I’m not sure his process is making a better version than just the very best Tech IB scenes cleaned and stabilised. We just haven’t seen enough yet. I genuinely hope LucasFilm commission his copy, BUT, unlike other people I don’t think that’s the holy grail of SW77 restorations. Personally a single print Technicolor scan, with minor grading and clean up would be my ideal. I hope this (although it would have less of an audience) is still possible.

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TR2N said:

^ I think this will never happen…

I still have hope. The fact that he is presenting this to Fox Executives and he has such a magnificent pitch boosts my confidence in this project immensely. This is something bigger than most projects that could lead to an OFFICAL release with OFFCIAL box art and disc art and bonus features and all the goodies from Lucasfilm with the theatrical versions. My mouth froths more for this possibility than my own personal copy.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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I feel the same way…oh yes I would like a copy…but seeing Legacy officially released and Mike getting compensation and recognition for his endeavors would be awesome.

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There are two things at play here.
One is channel misalignment on the IB Tech prints, this is common on IB prints, and you can check against the non-IB prints to see what is channel alignment and what is not.

Two is chromatic abberation, this is visible on all prints in certain areas, epecially starfields, particuarly at the edges of frame, i.e. there was more CA as you got away from the centre of the lens.

Getting back to the negative is an interesting goal for preservation, for restoration, not necessarily. There is plenty of visible stuff on the neg that never would have made it to a release print, and some detail on the prints that certainly would have been invisible when projected.

Restoration is tricky, remastering is easier as far as decision making goes.

There definitely would have been presentations in 1977 where the garbage mattes would have been invisible or barely visible - there would have been others where they stuck out like a sore thumb.

Mike’s project is clearly a remastering, and would result in a viewing experience of Star Wars which is probably how most people would ‘remember’ seeing it, and would be easier to immerse yourself in the film, without the glitchier bits pulling you out of it. That is something I would love to see.

I’d also love to see a full ‘restoration’. However, a restoration, well, that is another thing altogether, and you will probably never get two people anywhere to fully agree, not just about what is kept and what is not, but even to what degree… Just how visible do you make those garbage mattes…

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…but it’s the little flaws that fans have also endeared to their hearts. Now, if you grew up with the SE versions…THAT is your memory of Star Wars…but for old bastards like myself, the matte lines, missing frames in death star explosion, x-wing hiccups are part of the experience. It’s what I know, its what I love.

Another perfect example would be Blade Runner. I LOVE Blade Runner. I love the stunt double man in Pris’ death scene…the stunt double man during Zhora’s plunge thru the glass, etc etc…these things don’t detract from the power, the presentation, the greatness of that film. Oh yes, I own the ‘briefcase’ collectors edition…HAD to get it. And the remastering is wonderful…but I still pull out that original theatrical just because that was MY Blade Runner…the one I grew up with. It’s the same with Star Wars. I need MY Star Wars back.

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I guess that’s precisely why Mike Verta is doing it for himself. You simply can’t please everyone.

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Finnius said:

…but it’s the little flaws that fans have also endeared to their hearts. Now, if you grew up with the SE versions…THAT is your memory of Star Wars…but for old bastards like myself, the matte lines, missing frames in death star explosion, x-wing hiccups are part of the experience. It’s what I know, its what I love.

Another perfect example would be Blade Runner. I LOVE Blade Runner. I love the stunt double man in Pris’ death scene…the stunt double man during Zhora’s plunge thru the glass, etc etc…these things don’t detract from the power, the presentation, the greatness of that film. Oh yes, I own the ‘briefcase’ collectors edition…HAD to get it. And the remastering is wonderful…but I still pull out that original theatrical just because that was MY Blade Runner…the one I grew up with. It’s the same with Star Wars. I need MY Star Wars back.

The odd thing is though, that many of the flaws the fans ave burned into their consciousness are from watching the home versions on LD, Laserdisc, TV etc. and in some cases are quite different to the projected versions. I’ve seen it projected more often than from home releases, so ‘my’ Star Wars is different to many. Everyone has their own ‘Star Wars’ 😃

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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SilverWook said:

Finnius said:

…it’s been real quiet for over a month…my guess is Mike had a heart attack from all the stress of the project…

Not funny.

I thought it was funny. Partly because the “other” project I’m on nearly HAS given me a heart-attack. 😃

Legacy is slowly moving up the chain. Executives are nervous, skittish creatures.

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

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mverta said:

SilverWook said:

Finnius said:

…it’s been real quiet for over a month…my guess is Mike had a heart attack from all the stress of the project…

Not funny.

I thought it was funny. Partly because the “other” project I’m on nearly HAS given me a heart-attack. 😃

Legacy is slowly moving up the chain. Executives are nervous, skittish creatures.

Literally buzzing with excitement!

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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mverta said:
Legacy is slowly moving up the chain. Executives are nervous, skittish creatures.

What are they so nervous about? Do you think there’s even a slight possibility that something (maybe a Lucas stipulation that’s still in place) might hold them back from wanting to release this?

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I think he meant to put in italics.
Probably needs a refresher course in Markdown syntax…

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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darthrush said:

mverta said:

SilverWook said:

Finnius said:

…it’s been real quiet for over a month…my guess is Mike had a heart attack from all the stress of the project…

Not funny.

I thought it was funny. Partly because the “other” project I’m on nearly HAS given me a heart-attack. 😃

Legacy is slowly moving up the chain. Executives are nervous, skittish creatures.

Literally buzzing with excitement!

Unless you’re a bee, you used it wrong.

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TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

mverta said:

SilverWook said:

Finnius said:

…it’s been real quiet for over a month…my guess is Mike had a heart attack from all the stress of the project…

Not funny.

I thought it was funny. Partly because the “other” project I’m on nearly HAS given me a heart-attack. 😃

Legacy is slowly moving up the chain. Executives are nervous, skittish creatures.

Literally buzzing with excitement!

Unless you’re a bee, you used it wrong.

And if you are a bee, i think i finally understand why honey bees are dying off.

“They lost the will to live.” <- that is the answer.