JediExile said:
Yes it’s similar to the situation with Vader and Luke, but how does it tie into Vader and how does that reflect Vader?I’m going to answer that with part of your own post
Yes it’s similar to the situation with Vader and Luke - you
Not exactly what I meant, but I’ll get into that below.
What does the use of the word seduced tell the audience about how Kylo and the FO views Vader?
That Kylo Ren when put in a similar situation to the one Vader faced in ROTJ he will not be seduced by the enemy/the light side. Just because he doesn’t say "By the grace of your training I will not be seduced like Vader did" doesn’t mean that the obvious similarities in the task isn’t what prompted him to assure Snoke he wouldn’t be swayed from his path. There would be literally no reason for him to say that unless he’s trying to assure Snoke he will not fail in the same area as his grandfather. And just because something isn’t explicitly stated doesn’t mean the connection isn’t there; sometimes you just need to put two and two together. It’s not lazy/shitty writing to sometimes respect your audience’s intelligence.
I interpret the scene as just assuring Snoke he won’t fail period. While the Vader/Luke and Kylo/Han situations are similar, I think the Kylo and Han conflict is much more personal which is why I’m hesitant to even try to relate this scene back to the confrontation with the Emperor in RotJ. Kylo was raised by Han, Vader never even realized Luke existed until (I’m not really sure when he realized Luke was his son, I think the Emperor realized it before Vader did in ESB, but I can’t remember the scene for my life) 22 or so years after he was born. The emotional attachment, while there, isn’t as strong. And I think Kylo is a very different character from Vader in the sense that EVERYBODY IN THE FILM recognizes that he’s essentially just trying to be bad whereas Vader was undoubtedly bad (RIP Younglings). Luke was the one able to sense a small bit of goodness in his father, but even that hope of turning him eventually faded a little. I don’t think it’s hard for anyone to look at Kylo and say “Yeah, he’s gonna redeem himself probably” (I really hope he doesn’t, but it seems inevitable really). So I find it hard to watch that scene and relate it back to Vader in any way because the similarities in the conflicts pretty much begins and ends at Father vs Son.
That’s my bad.
It’s cool. It’s just one of those misconceptions I can’t understand because Snoke called him Master of The Knights of Ren
I’ll just say “Dark Jedi” or something in the future. Master of the Knights of Ren is a bit too long of a title for me.
This is exactly how I feel, so his Vader worship really confuses me. He goes and prays to the guy who failed the Emperor and was seduced to the light side for help with not being seduced to the light side. I don’t understand the scene at all.
Well since he knows about Vader’s turn and believes he was seduced by the enemy it is apparent that he thinks Anakin Skywalker is a perversion and that Darth Vader was his true self. Even when Rey gets into Kylo’s mind and discovers his fear it is that he will never be as strong as Darth Vader, not Anakin Skywalker
also there’s this:
It is the name of your true self. You’ve only forgotten - Luke Skywalker
So it’s more than possible Kylo thinks in reverse as to who Vader’s true self was
That is possible, but I don’t see how. Kylo was raised by Luke partially (during his training at the Jedi academy) so Luke must have told him about Vader and how he died. Now I know Kylo has a hard-on for power and admires Vader for being a badass cripple, but how did he make that stretch that Anakin Skywalker was truly himself when he was Darth Vader? This is why I was really interested to see Snoke say something about him because if he did even make passing mention of Vader in a positive light it’d be easy to make the argument that he twisted Ren’s view of Vader.
So essentially until the “fall” of Ben is shown, I think this scene will continue to not make sense to me.
The line “Show me your power again” (or whatever it was) to me implies that the ghost of Vader somehow exists and is somehow communicating with Ren which doesn’t make sense at all to me because Vader was redeemed.
Aside from my rebuttal above we need to heed to the fact that Kylo Ren is not of a stable mind. Even in the novelization the mask never communicates back.
I get that he’s not exactly emotionally stable, but nothing in the movie (well, aside from this scene I guess) points to him being a loony. If Kylo Ren said that he’s seen the power of Vader, I’m kind of inclined to believe him. I just don’t see him being completely bonkers, just an emotionally conflicted guy.
I think in ANH during the scene we’re talking about below it takes like 4-8 shots from a TIE Fighter.
Yeah that’s because Chewie wasn’t trying to evade any of the film. He was more or less keeping the ship steady
I actually thought that Chewie had lost some control over the ship during the fight (Leia mentions losing control of something, don’t remember quite what).
Also I wouldn’t say anything Rey did in the Falcon was mundane lol. Try flying a giant satellite dish with the cockpit on the far right, she did really well.
What I meant by mundane is her just doing basic evasive maneuvers
I don’t remember enough of the non-flippy/non-Star Destroyer part of the scene to argue against this or agree with it (Still need to get the DVD).
Yes, but that had more to do with the gun being stuck (I wonder why Finn didn’t just switch guns?) than having to do with her flying skills.
Well perhaps he didn’t know that was another one and perhaps the other gin wasn’t in a good position to fire. I don’t know really
As a side note, I never really understood how the guns were laid out or how the gravity worked in those little seats so maybe the top gun wasn’t in position to shoot, I dunno. I did just realize though that if Finn switched seats Rey wouldn’t have had to flip the Falcon over most likely.
I mean actually aiming it, not trying to hit a target. He was bouncing around like crazy in that seat, Luke just got into it and boom, started shooting without complaints. The seating seemed easy to get used to for a farm boy.
If anything Luke should have been the one who was uber uncomfortable sitting in the thing. Would definitely make the ordeal a tad more realistic.
I think it would have made more sense if that happened and Finn was the one more comfortable in the seat, yeah.
I dunno about Luke, but yeah she’s not as great as Han or Wedge. Too bad Wedge isn’t back for the newer films, I’d much MUCH rather have him than Nien “Literally who?” Nunb
Yeah, Wedge was cool. Hopefully he at least get’s a mention in the sequels.
Still a little annoyed that his actor said that being in the newer films would be “boring” or something along those lines. Even Daniel Craig and some other actors I believe popped on the set for some cameo roles(I still have no clue who he is in the film).