JediExile said:
Yes, you’re right that Vader turning to the light is fairly unique in canon (I think? I haven’t watched TCW all the way through and I can’t be bothered to watch Rebels). When Kylo is speaking to Snoke though, he is talking about him and his father, not Luke and Vader. The use of the word seduced doesn’t mean anything for Vader’s redemption. Like I said, it might help enlighten the viewer to how the First Order views going back to the light, but not how the First Order views Vader himself.It doesn’t matter if he’s talking about having to kill Han or not. Clearly the situations in TFA and ROTJ are similar so him saying he will not be seduced ties into Vader. It’s just not explicitly stated because it doesn’t need to me.
Yes it’s similar to the situation with Vader and Luke, but how does it tie into Vader and how does that reflect Vader? What does the use of the word seduced tell the audience about how Kylo and the FO views Vader?
It’s important when you have a Sith who worships the man who was partially responsible for the downfall of the Empire. If Snoke accepts Kylo’s worship towards Vader then it’s not hard to assume that the Knights of Ren/First Order does too. So how does Kylo and company feel about his redemption? It was an extremely important part of his character in RotJ and his redemption goes completely ignored in the TFA. All it needed was one scene, justifying the worship of his power over his actions against the Empire and it wouldn’t be an issue.
For one Kylo Ren is not a Sith. Secondly, since he knows about Vader’s redemption and he says “by the grace of your training I will not be seduced” means he was seduced by the enemy and the light side by extension. Any user of the Dark Side is going to look at such a thing with disdain and disappointment. Having a Dark Sider talk about how he feels about Vader’s turn is a bit redundant don’t you think?
You’re right, Kylo is not a Sith. That’s my bad.
I’m going to focus on one part of what you wrote for a moment:
“Any user of the Dark Side is going to look at such a thing with disdain and disappointment.”
This is exactly how I feel, so his Vader worship really confuses me. He goes and prays to the guy who failed the Emperor and was seduced to the light side for help with not being seduced to the light side. I don’t understand the scene at all. The line “Show me your power again” (or whatever it was) to me implies that the ghost of Vader somehow exists and is somehow communicating with Ren which doesn’t make sense at all to me because Vader was redeemed. It’s a very confusing scene. I understand wanting to worship Vader for his power, but maybe praying for him to help you stay on the dark side is a bad idea.
This is why it’s important for me to know how exactly Kylo feels about Vader. Being seduced by the enemy is not something positive and it definitely doesn’t call for worship. But most of all, it most certainly doesn’t call for asking the helmet of that traitor to help you not betray the dark side. Why would Kylo do this? How does he view Vader? Seduced isn’t enough to make sense of this scene.
I mentioned a deleted scene of Snoke going over Vader’s redemption before, but can’t seem to find it now. If anyone could find and link it that’d be great.
It’s not a deleted scene; it’s a scene in the novelization.
I could have sworn I saw a video describing a deleted scene from the movie where Snoke talks about Vader, but must be my imagination or something.
That doesn’t explain anything.
“Oh shit, there’s danger” doesn’t really explain the existence of a “Resistance” when there should just be a Republic Army dealing with the First Order.Having the Republic deal with The First Order is another layer into the conversation. The Resistance was created as a backroom type of way to destroy the First Order. If you include the whole treaty the conversation shifts immensely.
I realize the purpose of the Resistance is to fight the First Order, but the why for it’s creation isn’t in the movie. “Why isn’t the Republic itself doing this?” is probably the first thing I thought while watching the movie and it isn’t explained at all. It’s explained that the Resistance is being supported by the Republic indicating a positive relationship, but other than that I know nothing about the Resistance and the Republic. Then I read about the treaty and I got a little mad, but it made more sense. You can’t just continue a series 30 years later and be unwilling to delve even a tiny bit into the politics that occurred during those 30 years and explain why the Republic army isn’t involved in the movie.
Yes I realize she was having a hard time flying the Falcon in the beginning, but the rest of her flight honestly makes those little issues in the beginning seem like a joke.
Almost crashing the ship is not a little issue. It could have gotten them killed or captured. Furthermore she got hit twice during the chase and showed visible difficulty while doing the most mundane things with the Falcon. We never saw any type of difficulty flying the Falcon/X-Wing/Snow Speeder with Luke or Han
“Crashing” seems a little extreme. To me that implies higher speeds and a chance to die horribly. She had a rough takeoff and fucked up an archway if I remember, but the Millennium Falcon wasn’t about to shit itself or anything.
She did get hit twice during the chase, but the Millenium Falcon is a huge target (unlike an X-Wing) and it’s taken more hits from a TIE Fighter in the past. I think in ANH during the scene we’re talking about below it takes like 4-8 shots from a TIE Fighter. So the thing’s shields can take a beating and the armor itself has always seemed tough.
Also I wouldn’t say anything Rey did in the Falcon was mundane lol. Try flying a giant satellite dish with the cockpit on the far right, she did really well.
I mean she flies the thing through the hollowed hull of a Star Destroyer. Like hot fucking damn that thing gave her less room to maneuver than the Trench on the Death Star ever did.
That was impressive but even then she still barely made it out of there.
Yes, but that had more to do with the gun being stuck (I wonder why Finn didn’t just switch guns?) than having to do with her flying skills.
I don’t really understand why he was having trouble with aiming the turret though, Luke and Han made it look really easy
Yeah that’s why it took Han 43 seconds to destroy the first TIE Fighter.
I mean actually aiming it, not trying to hit a target. He was bouncing around like crazy in that seat, Luke just got into it and boom, started shooting without complaints. The seating seemed easy to get used to for a farm boy.
This is all just speculation though, her flying was great.
Overall it was a pretty good performance. Not on Han and Luke’s level. Hell I wouldn’t even put her up with Wedge.
I dunno about Luke, but yeah she’s not as great as Han or Wedge. Too bad Wedge isn’t back for the newer films, I’d much MUCH rather have him than Nien “Literally who?” Nunb