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.: The Zion DVD Project :. (Released) — Page 24

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Originally posted by: Laserman
By all means do it DB, and post the results. It would be interesting to compare a 3D rendered version vs the 2D solutions. I would really like to see what you come up with.
It would take about 15 mins to do in EI.
Electric image is old and clunky though - if you want the 3D approach I would use Maya or 3DS MAX and the renderer of choice.
The problem with most of these solutions is that the crawl is far too smooth. Adding an expression to dirty up the movement ever so slightly gives a more natural looking result - but it is really personal preference

After Effects has native 3D capability. Not polygonal model 3D like Maya or 3DS, but planar 3D, which is perfect for this application.
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Originally posted by: Laserman
By all means do it DB, and post the results. It would be interesting to compare a 3D rendered version vs the 2D solutions. I would really like to see what you come up with.
It would take about 15 mins to do in EI.
Electric image is old and clunky though - if you want the 3D approach I would use Maya or 3DS MAX and the renderer of choice.
The problem with most of these solutions is that the crawl is far too smooth. Adding an expression to dirty up the movement ever so slightly gives a more natural looking result - but it is really personal preference
If you watch the generated prequel crawls that were done with EI, they look so authentic. The size, the slope, the way they fade back at a consistent rate and don't look like they're "rolling up". All the crawls I’ve seen generated with AE just don't look that authentic. OK, true EI may not give the realistic camera-shake. I'll see what I can do about it for sure and post the results.

You've mentioned two more alternatives to AE, does this mean you are thinking of generating a crawl yourself? Obviously I don't have much experience in this kind of thing, but I have the right font, and I have a friend who can help me - so I'll work it out. I would like to see the solutions you or others could come up with using alternative programs as well. I guess the good news is I can use the footage from the "emperor of dreams" doc (or whatever it's called) that was on the official bonus disk (which is stored in an iso on my HDD) to get the timing authentically perfect. If I have a good experience doing this I might do more in the future towards preservation myself.
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Hi Zion and all. I'm a new poster here but have been following the forums for some time now.

I'm wondering how this project will ultimately be distributed? A cursory look at prices today at CompUSA had dual-layer DVDs (all of them DVD+R) showed that they were still pretty expensive. Memorex had 1 disc for 14.95, and Verbatim had a 3-pack for 24.95.

Distribution could get pretty expensive. I'd like to receive the final Zion project, but with costs like these, the costs may be prohibitive.
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DL discs can be ordered online for ~$5 per. The prices are always dropping.
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DB, it isn't so much the tools, as it is, the artist using them.

LFL could be using After-Effects and get an authentic-looking crawl. Lucasfilm has a lot of reference data on how the original crawls were filmed. Using using EI is not going to magically create authentic title crawls.

ILM created EI, which is why they use it.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Originally posted by: Kelannar
Hi Zion and all. I'm a new poster here but have been following the forums for some time now.

I'm wondering how this project will ultimately be distributed? A cursory look at prices today at CompUSA had dual-layer DVDs (all of them DVD+R) showed that they were still pretty expensive. Memorex had 1 disc for 14.95, and Verbatim had a 3-pack for 24.95.

Distribution could get pretty expensive. I'd like to receive the final Zion project, but with costs like these, the costs may be prohibitive.


1) NEVER go to Compusa or major retailers for media, they charge WAY to much... 30-50% more than everyone else
2) Hate to say it, but Memorex is piss media. Order in bulk from online retailers, by manufactures such as, Ritek, Optorite, Piodata, and Taiyo Yuden. (Yes, DL media is going as low as $5 per)

P.S. I am actually waiting for either Pioneer or Lite-On DVD-'DL-R' drives before I do DL... DVD+R compatibility blows.
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Like Zottig says, DL media is dropping in price all the time.


Thanks guys. That's good to hear. Sorry for the inappropriate concern.
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I too plan on doing a dual layer version once I get a Pioneer or NEC drive that supports -R DL and -R DL media becomes available.

I have a couple of questions on how to do it.

I have DVD-Lab Pro (authoring) and TMPGEnc Plus (encoder) and both support dual layer. My questions are.

1.) Once my editing of the LD sides togther and filtering are done, would I encode the whole film with my encoder into one large file?
2.) Anyone know whether DVD-Lab Pro will let you set the point in the film you want the layer break?
3.) Where in the DVD's did they set their layer breaks? I know ANH placed it after Tarkin says, "Terminate her immediately!". That is where I broke the film in two when I did my original two disc version. I don't know where they put their's in ESB and ROTJ. On ESB, my second disc starts with Luke popping his head down into the cave of the magic tree. On ROTJ, my first disc ends with Han saying, "Hurry up will ya! We haven't got all day!".

Thanks.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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You can set the layer break point in DVD-lab.

Project --> Pre-Mastering --> Set Layer Break

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

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It would be my strongest suggestion to Zion that he makes a DVD-5 version for torrents and people who want to pay a cheaper rate to have them burnt (and the peace of mind that DVD-R is a solid format accepted by almost every machine, whereas DL media may cause some problems). I would suggest making a DL version only for those who want the highest quality. So yes, I think it should come in both flavours.

Then for anyone who distributes them it should be standard to post the DVD-R version, and to offer the DL version along with it for those interested in higher quality (I would strongly suggest everyone who distributes to always include the single-layer version with the dual-layer version). Those are my personal feelings on the matter. The other thing, is that people who want the highest quality won't want to get re-compressed editions of your set, Zion, which means if you don't personally release a DVD-5 version, someone - or many people will recompress it. Even I probably would. They'll do it if they downloaded an 8.5Gig torrent and they only have a single-layer burner. They'll do it if they distribute and there's demand for a DVD-5 version as opposed to a DL version.
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Originally posted by: zion
I have no plans at all to release anything less than a DVD9. If someone comes along and down-converts it to DVD5 as a torrent, that's their perogative. I'm not going to compromise quality because of simple compatability issues.


Good call. I wouldn't, either. If it's good enough for Hollywood...
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I agree, DVD2One or other solutions exist to squeeze it to one layer. And for all those concerned about +DL compatability, my goal is to get a disc in my hand. I could care less if it's only playable on my computer at first, though +DL is fine and when "bitset" 100% as good as retail discs.

The reason is... it's a "bird in hand" vs "in the bush" arguement. You can rip the files from the DVD+R DL and burn them to -DL or whatever you want in the future.

Trust me, having the discs done is paramount compared to the issue of what they'll go on. In fact... when I was doing my project DL discs weren't even available, but I was working on a DL project because I didn't want to sacrifice quality asn knew that DL would be possible eventually.
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Well every few months I get caught up on current DVDR technology...

And I just found this out about the status of DVD-'DL-R'

Checking out the firmware update to the Plextor PX-716 (new 16x DVD+-R, '6x' DVD+R DL drive)
which currently sells for $85-95 USD...

"Date posted: January 24, 2005
Added support for 2x DVD-R DL (dual layer) media
Add support for 6x writing on DVD+R DL (double layer) media"

And they say firmware upgrade to 6x DVD-R DL in march.

So from what I have found out, the 2rd Generation of DL drives that have 4x +R DL burning, will probally
for the most part be firmware upgradable to -DL. Currently only Plextor has support for this.

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I hope Pioneer catches up too. I haven't decided between the Pioneer 109 or the NEC 3520A. Both drives use the NEC chipset as stated on VideoHelp under the DVD Writers section.

Also, thanks for the information on DVD-Lab Pro Reverend Beastly. I actually still have to purchase Pro. I purchased the regular version back in Jan 04, so it should only be a $100 upgrade to Pro.

I'm hoping -R DL will be more compatible than +R DL was when it started out. The -R guys had a lot of extra time, so I hope they pretty much perfected it. As far as the burning speeds of DL drives go, it really doesn't matter to me too much when talking about the differences between 4X and even 8x. I know 8x is twice as fast, but burning doesn't really bother me since it takes so many hours to encode since I use TMPGEnc Plus. Even though that is slow, I like it for the price and quality. There are better encoders, but they also can cost a lot more.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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Why the Faces' CLV discs over the Definitive's CAV? There is a noticeable difference.
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A counter-question to you, bobbyfett, is: "Is the difference worth several hundred dollars?"

I'm pretty sure the answer is, "No."

There is virtually no difference between 'Faces' and the DC, and the DC is more trouble to deal with. I'd work from 'Faces', too -- and I have both.
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Hi guys, I've really admired what's being done for the cause. I already have Dr. Gonzo's set and am very happy with it, in fact, just last week I got myself an NEC ND3520, flashed it to liggy's firmware and burned the discs to DVD+Rs (100pack of 8x Riteks for $23 after rebates). I have to say that bitsetting is awesome - my Panasonic DVD player says on its box that its only compatible with DVD-Rs burned with a Matsushita/Panasonic burner, so I'm pretty happy about the whole bitsetting thing...really a nifty trick.

I'm really excited about your set, Zion, I'll definately buy the DL media for it...but for now Dr. Gonzo's more than compensates. I mean, it looks passable on my LCDS, but it looks pristine on the TVs 'round the house.


=bilditup1=

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

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i definitely see your point w/r/t practicality. five sides isn't much fun to deal with.

i was wondering if anyone could point me to a history of the OT on home video. i saw something on the forums here that mentioned all the little cuts and edits over the years from early VHS to LD and so on. thanks.
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Not only is five sides more of a pain, but when you're buying copies of the DC, it's difficult to tell if you'll get one with Leia's welding chopped. Among other little problems.

A pretty comprehensive guide to SW on LD is located at http://www.blam1.com/StarWars/index.htm. Doesn't include PAL, but does include everything NTSC. At least, I think it's everything.
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Originally posted by: bilditup1
my Panasonic DVD player says on its box that its only compatible with DVD-Rs burned with a Matsushita/Panasonic burner, so I'm pretty happy about the whole bitsetting thing...really a nifty trick.


Your player's box actually brags about being incompatible with most of the world's DVD-Rs? That's pretty gutsy of them to admit they fell way short of the specifications they're supposed to adhere to.
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Originally posted by: ApolloOne
Originally posted by: bilditup1
my Panasonic DVD player says on its box that its only compatible with DVD-Rs burned with a Matsushita/Panasonic burner, so I'm pretty happy about the whole bitsetting thing...really a nifty trick.


Your player's box actually brags about being incompatible with most of the world's DVD-Rs? That's pretty gutsy of them to admit they fell way short of the specifications they're supposed to adhere to.


I'd be willing to bet its compatable with most if not all dvd-r's. but its a panasonic dvd player, they say its only compatible with dvds from their burner...you're gonna get 90% of the population that are less knowledgable than the people on this forum (and forums like it) that will go out and buy a panasonic burner because of whats written on the box of their dvd player.

also +r's are generally less compatable so the fact that his player doesnt play +r's (or advertise it as being compatible) may just be a cya situation...i mean with this lawsuit happy society we live in what do you expect.


anyway...so im not totally off topic...zion, any major updates/progress on your menus/project in general?

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Apollo- Yes, it does brag that. Main reason I bought it was for FOTR:EE. It was pretty good at the time, 100 bucks after rebate. Now the deal is not that great- no progressive scan, no DivX, no picture...I didn't care about the alleged DVD-R incompatibility at the time.

Tell you the truth, I didn't want to take the chance, and when I heard of the whole bitsetting thing I was sold on DVD+R.
But hey, lets not go ruining this thread with a +/- R flame-war.

You know what would be cool? If we had a behind-the-scenes type thing showing Zion mastering the DVDs, or whatever the process is called.
It wouldn't even have to be on the DVD, just like an AVI or something.......it would make a cool easter egg though.

-bilditup1

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”