logo Sign In

StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread — Page 9

Author
Time
Post link
Mike has said time and time again he WILL NOT release these in any way, shape, or form.
Author
Time
Post link
I know that you have very eloquently stated that your intention is to preserve the 'experience' rather than the film as closely as it actually was when released, and I'm in agreeance with you up to a point there... there's those that seem to obsess about it far too much... I mean really, does it really matter if it says Episode IV or not at the begining of the crawl? How does that affect the actual movie... What I'm a little iffy about (don't get me wrong though, I'm very interested in your final version) is the 'fixing' of effects they didn't get right back then, like the speeder smudge under it, or the little jumps due to cuts for effects etc... I'm all for being able to still see those things as it was what was achievable THEN... from a film history point of view, being able to say to someone "See, see how great this film is, how amazing it really does look? And this was all done in 1976!" is surely of major worth for future generations of film buffs and students etc.? With the actual releases that Lucas provides it's a case of "See, see how good that bit... no, that bit there... no, not that bit... wait, ok this bit, and that over there, but not the windows there... all of that, well, minus the CG creature over there... that was done in 1976! Oh, wait... no... no, that was 'fixed up in 1997'"... it doesn't sit well.... Your version, while not having the CG etc (Well, actually it does now doesn't it... really, with the laser flash), does have 'clean ups' of original effects... not to their original versions, but better than original...


The answer to this would fall along the lines of "you're never going to see it anyway so why do you care what I do." Don't expect a warm fuzzy discussion about this, as there seem to be two distinct perceptions of what preservation is. The purists believe in preservation in film history a la "you can't change anything about the film because it wasn't like that in '77. The other school of thought, which is where people like Mike's feelings lie, says that you should preserve the experience. Things that distract you from enjoying the story and the characters such as crappy effects shots can be fixed because we have the ability and desire to do so.

(completely off topic, but for some reason if I edit a post in one of the sticky threads it goes to the top of the list. wierd.)

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: zion
you can't change anything about the film because it wasn't like that in '77.


Do I detect a hint of bitterness here? When I complained about your effects fixes it was because what you are doing with the pre-ANH crawl idea is preserving the original, and you should preserve everything else as well. If you were releasing not a pre-ANH version, I wouldn't care about that at all. Then there are people who say no matter what it has to be like it was released, but I think if you're going through all the trouble of making one thing identical to its release, why fix something else that was "broken" upon release?

As for Mike's alterations, let me say this: if he was distributing these, I'd get them in a heartbeat. This would be the ideal version of Star Wars in my opinion, but I think history should also be preserved as best as possible.
Author
Time
Post link
I will hush now, as really... Mike has stated his intentions with his project and by god the outcomes so far are stunning, that they surpass the current DVD really speak for the quality of this work... and that is where I suppose I am just thinking "Gee, how damn cool would it be to have a clean, colour corrected version of the original movie as it stood then". It just shows how impressed I am with what you've done. (And from reading all the work you've done on this so far, the immense time it's taken too)
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Tikigod
... kind of a touchy dead horse that's been beaten far too many times.

Heck, I'd say you couldn't even beat it anymore. It's more like a puddle of something formerly known as "horse" being stomped around in gleefully by a few (one) people on the boards.


Sounds like you're describing glue. It would be the substance that holds us together, so your analogy is so appropriate in ways you might not have considered when you wrote that.

I am the BASF of the film community. I don’t make the films you watch. I make the films you watch better.

Author
Time
Post link
There's more than a little validity to having a record of the limitations of film production from an academic standpoint. But in the end, Star Wars is a movie, a piece of entertainment, and it's not ILM's fault that audiences can see through optical compositing 30 years later. My goal has always been to preserve as much of the experience as possible - and that means leaving as much of the original film intact as possible without having the experience ruined by distractions caused by having more sophisticated eyes. And in Star Wars' case, it's a pretty huge testament to the artistry that even 30 years later, we're really talking about a small number of corrections, or enhancements, or whatever you want to call them.

Though I'm going through the film frame at a time, my process for determining what needs adjusting is simple: I watch Star Wars, in real-time, on a regular consumer television (albeit calibrated). As soon as I see something that clearly looks wrong, I open up the film and figure out why. Based on what needs fixing, I either correct it, or leave it alone. I notice that watching Star Wars on that same consumer television set to the factory default settings reveals a ton more errors as well, because of the excessive contrast and gross over-brightness of the default settings. So to be safe, I fix those too. I stop the very instant that the drama plays out smoothly again.

A typical example is something I "corrected" yesterday, in the fight between the Falcon and the TIE fighters. Just before the TIE's fully attack, the Falcon gets jolted by some nearby laser blasts. Because the shots of Han and Luke in their gunner seats wasn't filmed with camera shake, they attempted to add some by rocking the frame back and forth in the gate a bit. It's an extremely cheap, 2D looking gag, that looks really silly. There's no way you can miss it, and at that moment, you're not thinking about the impending attack of the bad guys, you're thinking, "what is THAT? That looked stupid..."

Today, we have tools that let you add motion blur in post by analyzing the motion of individual pixels over a sequence of frames. So I added post blur consistent with the look of the intended action in the frame. It's not a perfect fix, because there's no parallax shift between the foreground and the background elements, but the fix, while subtle, makes all the difference. You don't go, "hey, there's some blur!" You just see the guys shaking with the laser blasts, and you're waiting for the TIEs to come. The effect may not be perfect, but it's enough to let you stay in the drama, and stay in the moment. And THAT is the goal.

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

Author
Time
Post link
And that you notice these things, and know these things shows what hands this restoration is in. (One wonders if Lucasfilm is watching your site with view to hiring you for the next release of the movie on HDDVD or whatever it comes out on).

My previous comments should not be taken in any way stating that I don't think what you're doing is worthwhile... in fact I am dying that you are not releasing this to the masses... All I can do is envy you sitting down to watch this when it's done... that would be a great experience, and one that certainly sounds deserved.
Author
Time
Post link
I am looking at two brand new t-shirts from Mike. Christmas may be a little late for my friends, but I'm relieved to see that this product was not, as Rikter called it, "vapor-wear." Further, Mike, it's glad to see that you're back on the board and contributing. I hope whatever crises arose over the holidays have passed, and I look forward to updates on your project once again. They've been informative and inspirational to me in regards to my own projects.

I am the BASF of the film community. I don’t make the films you watch. I make the films you watch better.

Author
Time
Post link
Oi. I don't think I want to be here when Verta gets to the Battle of Yavin.

My question is if he will chop up the shot of the X-Wing pass-by shot, that was 2 shots in the original ANH and was made into a tracking shot in the SE, to keep the audio syncronised with the replaced audio from the LD's.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

Author
Time
Post link
I was kind of wondering if he'd redo that shot himself using the X-Wing model he was working on (as mentioned a few pages back in this thread).
Author
Time
Post link
I'm not using any of the audio from the DVD, so I'm not beholden to its timing changes. The Battle of Yavin will not feature a single CG element - I'm going to use the original sequence only, albeit cleaned up a bit to repair garbage mattes, etc.

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

Author
Time
Post link
What are you planning to do about the restored Biggs scene?
Author
Time
Post link
When are you going to update the site next, Mike?

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: mverta
I'm not using any of the audio from the DVD, so I'm not beholden to its timing changes. The Battle of Yavin will not feature a single CG element - I'm going to use the original sequence only, albeit cleaned up a bit to repair garbage mattes, etc.

_Mike


Thank goodness. That tracking shot always looked bad in my eyes(I've explained it a million times before). I can't wait to see the cleaned up pic of the BOY.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author
Time
Post link
Are you going to do anything about the sunburns in the garbage masher. (caused by the reds being pulled way up).

I know you said that your not using any of the CG footage of the Battle of Yavin, are you just dropping the cleaned up DE footage in there for the whole thing, or just the shots that where CG was inserted.

Because the shots of the models exploding were re-roto'ed for the SE to remove bad matting. In my opinion the re-done mattes look much better than the original mattes.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: skyman8081
Are you going to do anything about the sunburns in the garbage masher. (caused by the reds being pulled way up).

I know you said that your not using any of the CG footage of the Battle of Yavin, are you just dropping the cleaned up DE footage in there for the whole thing, or just the shots that where CG was inserted.

Because the shots of the models exploding were re-roto'ed for the SE to remove bad matting. In my opinion the re-done mattes look much better than the original mattes.


It's sort of on a shot-by-shot basis. I use multiple sources and techniques... whatever works, really. In some cases that means returning to DE, in some cases using the DVD or SE...

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

Author
Time
Post link
I don't have anything to discuss or add.
Author
Time
Post link
Daniel -

My sarcasm, my frustration, stems from the fact that in your comparative quote post, you're overlooking my entire set of principles regarding the restoration.

I don't have a problem with George Lucas making changes to Star Wars. I have a problem with George Lucas making dramatic changes to Star Wars. Literally, changes to the drama and the experience of the story. If the CG were perfectly integrated, part of a seamless experience, that would help, but even then, most of the additions are unnecessary and slow or disrupt the flow of the story. Boba Fett is actually mugging for Christ's sake! Things like the bonking of the stormtrooper head are new editions not because Ben Burtt missed it, but because nobody wanted to draw attention to it and create a slapstick moment: it's a tense scene. Only 30 years later, when all concerned take the drama for granted, it becomes another piece of that inimitable George Lucas humor we've all come to know and tolerate.

My restoration changes, improvements, come from the same place George Lucas's do: "Hey, this sucks! Let's fix it!" Only I'm simply trying to smooth the road out, and keep the viewer focused on the story, not wholly change up the experience of the movie. The CG sticks out like a sore thumb, and you notice it. You stop watching the story. What's the difference between noticing a suck-ass CG Jabba and a suck-ass garbage matte?

Anyway, I can't help those philosophically opposed to the idea, but I can appeal to people's common sense. As I've said many times, my version is designed such that it looks like I haven't done anything. It's just Star Wars, as it was.

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

Author
Time
Post link
It's well known that I loath the SE, but if they had been done the way mverta is doing this, I probably wouldn't. I agree with his take. He's smoothing out rough edges where Lucus pulled out and replaced said edges. They're nothing alike IMO.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author
Time
Post link
Just throwing my 2 cents in again... (I can't help it, it's a sickness)... basically from looking at what you've already done, and what your thoughts are around it, I have to say that the final outcome of your project is going to be something very special, and I would expect that most people here are sad that they'll never see it.

As for the changes you are doing... well, you mentioned in a reply to one of my posts that you'd been working on the portion during the tie attack where the film is 'jiggled'... I was watching just that scene a couple of days ago and MAN, now that you've mentioned it I can't stop seeing it. It does look terrible doesn't it?

Damn you!

In any case, I wouldn't get too agrieved over Daniel's comments, from my short time here I've seen him annoy many, many members here, in particular those who are creating restorations... basically, until he creates his own, he doesn't have much right to lambast others for not doing it the way he would choose... I mean, you have said it's for you and your friends only.

Are you going to throw us some new screen grabs and descriptions of your work soon? Reading about and seeing what you've done is extremely interesting.

Simon