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Who has caved? — Page 3

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So am I.

Honestly I don't see what the big deal is? So what if a few scenes were changed. So yeah, a few were messed up... But so many more were made better, the picture quality is amazing, so what's the big kriffing deal? The Yavin battle is amazing, the old shots are still great; I don't understand how a few lines of extra dialogue and one stupid Rodian shooting his gun makes something go from great to horrible.

Granted Lucas is a prick for not releasing both versions. I can't comprehend why he doesn't... besides.. If I were him, I'd release both just to get people to shut up.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
... and one stupid Rodian shooting his gun makes something go from great to horrible.


That "one stupid Rodian" changed Han's entire character from a ruthless, out for himself scoundrel to a guy just shooting in self defense. Oooohhh. He's so bad ass now. Many people would strike in self defense. I can't think of anyone who wouldn't lash out on somebody in self defense. But to blatantly pull a gun on a person and shoot them under the table without any inclination that the other guy even wanted to do you any bodily harm aside from turning you over to Jabba for a bounty or stealing money that you stole anyway is just ruthless. That was all a part of Han's character arc. Now it's non existent.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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He was shooting in self defense even if Greedo didn't shoot first, though. He didn't go looking for Greedo, he went looking to pay Jabba back... Greedo only died because he pointed his gun at Solo, not because Solo was blood thirsty.

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I'm not saying he was bloodthirsty. Just that he didn't give a rat's ass about Greedo. Greedo was expendible. Greedo got in Han's way and he paid for it.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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"and one stupid Rodian shooting his gun makes something go from great to horrible."

And apparently Lucas felt the opposite was true with Han. Obviously, it was important enough to him to change it, regardless of its importance to you.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Well why not make it that way in the first place? He claims that all the SE changes he made were because he didn't have the technology to do so back in 1977/80/83. That's a load of bullshit. He's rewriting and doesn't want to admit it. If it was truly that important, he could have done it back in 77, but he didn't, did he? Can't have been that important.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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It was mostly due to changing public attitude about violence. In the seventies, people thought the world was falling apart.. violence was everywhere, so nobody realy thought that much about a random alien getting blasted on screen.

So curse PC, I guess.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
So curse PC, I guess.


You're probably more right than you know.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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"Well why not make it that way in the first place?"

Actually, he claims he did, but it just wasn't as clear as it is now. (Yeah, right.)

"It was mostly due to changing public attitude about violence."

See above. BTW, if you've been keeping up with spoilers, ROTS is going to have far more graphic violence than any of the other films had. Are you saying the public attitude has changed back now? Doesn't mean Lucas should restore the original scene?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Actually, he claims he did, but it just wasn't as clear as it is now. (Yeah, right.)


Maybe he meant "clear" as in "invisible/transparent/etc." You know, Greedo's always had a thing for those transparent bolt blasters. Sneak right up on somebody.

"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
So am I.

Honestly I don't see what the big deal is? So what if a few scenes were changed. So yeah, a few were messed up... But so many more were made better, the picture quality is amazing, so what's the big kriffing deal? The Yavin battle is amazing, the old shots are still great; I don't understand how a few lines of extra dialogue and one stupid Rodian shooting his gun makes something go from great to horrible.


It's a matter of opinion and perception. I've explained it several times. I find the original Yavin Battle amazing. You've said yourself, you've never seen it. I was amazed at how a handful of screwups and noobs pulled it off with limited technology, time, and money. Every X-wing is different. The models look real. While the new has more fluidity, the models look fake as I can easily notice the CGI. All the X-wings are the same model, with little done to cover it. The new pan shot makes it look like the DS is right in front of the moon. Worse, it was done by seasoned pros with all the time and money they needed. I expected better from ILM. It just doesn't match the quality I've seen from them. The original looked and felt unique. The new looks like every other Sci-fi film made since.

It's your opinion that some scenes were made better. The picture quality went from great in the 97 release to so-so in the messed up restoration. The new sound has always sucked. While many of the changes don't affect the canon, they do affect the mood. I remember seeing ANH in theaters in 97 and being completely lost in the changes. i came to see one of my favorite films, and instead I couldn't concentrate on the film! It wasn't until the second showing that I could. the mood is different, the feel is different. When I watch the OT, I feel like I'm watching Star Wars. When I watch the SE, I feel like I'm watch three sci-fi films trying to BE Star Wars. I'm distracted from the film because some one thought Cloud City need stuff flying around in the background. I still don't get Vader's shuttle. Did people actually believe there was a continuity error that needed fixing? They even half-assed it with recycled footage. it just screams how this was a test for the prequels. It's all an exercise in distraction. it's been a while since I saw the SE, it's not a memory I keep in mind. These fellings didn't surface until after I saw them in theaters. I never considered them canon though, and was shocked when I was told I'm supposed to. These are my opinions thoug. Yours are different. Please try to understand that.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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I guess they're influneced by there being nothing to be changed, considering the Theatrical SE was my first exposure to starwars outside the clip in Muppet Babies..

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Precisely. You view the SE differently than we do as your experience is different. It's called imprinting. The OT is what was imprinted on to me. The SE was imprinted to you. It basically keeps us from ever seeing each other's POV. I watch the SE and see changes. You watch the OT and see changes. Changes to what we perceive as Star Wars. Whether we see the changes as good is entirely up to us.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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KJ, that was an incredibly eloquent explanation. Very nice. And I agree wholeheartedly.

I think, from now on, whenever someone questions this debate, we just send them here to this thread. KJ nailed it on the head.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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What was imprinted on me was the 1985 mix and a pan-and-scan version of the movies... lol

Moll.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Haven't seen them, won't buy them. Maybe borrow from the local library so I can yell at my TV.

TOP 3 Reasons:

Lucas is actually considering episodes 7, 8, 9. That means more changes to come to the OT. Maybe removing the Corisant celebration?

2007=30th Anniversary: Bluray (HDDVD?) big momma jomma set is in the works. Can you say all 6 movies reworked, again... Maybe we can hope for original versions on these, but my breathe isn't held.

I LOVE the original versions. I saw the SE's in the theater (yes all 3), and almost cried.

Dr. M

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I am imprinted with the original VHS version of ANH and the theatrical releases of ESB and ROTJ. I was only two or three years old when I saw ANH in theaters in 77 so I can't say that quite imprinted on me as much. The toys on the other hand...

DrM, definitely don't hold your breath. You'll turn blue.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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My 1983 CED disc is what is imprinted on me. It was time compressed, pan and scan and featured the original Dolby Stereo mix. I used to watch that disc every day after school when my family first got our CED player. This was even before ROTJ was released. Anytime anything deviates from my memory of that disc, it pulls me out of the film.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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"I think, from now on, whenever someone questions this debate, we just send them here to this thread."

He should probably put in his sig.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk
My 1983 CED disc is what is imprinted on me. It was time compressed, pan and scan and featured the original Dolby Stereo mix. I used to watch that disc every day after school when my family first got our CED player. This was even before ROTJ was released. Anytime anything deviates from my memory of that disc, it pulls me out of the film.

Neil

Neil, do you still have that disc? Just curious.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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I never bought these DVD's - my nephews left them here by accident. Liked the special features because there was nothing about the Special Editions there. Movies look alright, I just walk out of the room everytime there's something I don't like.
VADER: Let me look on you with my own eyes...

LUKE: Dad, where are your eyebrows?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_S6UgkQk0
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Originally posted by: GundarkHunter
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Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk
My 1983 CED disc is what is imprinted on me. It was time compressed, pan and scan and featured the original Dolby Stereo mix. I used to watch that disc every day after school when my family first got our CED player. This was even before ROTJ was released. Anytime anything deviates from my memory of that disc, it pulls me out of the film.

Neil

Neil, do you still have that disc? Just curious.

Yes.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Too cool. Do you have a player as well?

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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I still have my original stereo player. And a few years ago,while I was scouring eBay for James Bond CEDs, I bought a lot that had included a copy of Star Wars, so I now have two copies.

I also have the CEDs of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. I got those when they originally came out.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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" VADER: Let me look on you with my own eyes...

LUKE: Dad, where are your eyebrows?"

Zebonka, that is a riot! LOL!

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>