The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 58

ray_afraid said:

^Love every bit of that. Except that I can’t see the post you linked to because I’m not a member at fenedit.

Here’s links to the specific images I found; concept art for Nal Hutta that broadly captures what I would envision for Tatooine’s replacement planet in ROTJ:

http://www.hauntedgamecafe.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/edge-of-the-empire-lords-of-nal-hutta-04.jpg

http://img.xooimage.com/files42/e/a/7/nal-hutta-3-17e5bd6.jpg

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/4881/889035-swtor9.jpg

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/4881/896249-swtor.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2009/02/ss_20090213_002small.jpg

^ And one of the creatures in this last image could make a suitable replacement for the goofy, burping alien in that establishing shot of Jabba’s Palace.

Apologies for the excessive linkage! I’m a bit of a dolt, and haven’t yet sussed how to embed images…

TavorX said:

What about Nar Shaddaa? It’s supposedly the moon of Nal Hutta. I don’t have issue with Nal Varr (I presume you’re mimicking “Rhen Varr”), but just thought it wouldn’t hurt to use a planet from Legends that has history. I agree not to use Nal Hutta. For one, always found the name kinda stupid, and second, due to the reasons you already brought up, topdawg.

Ah, I’m largely ignorant of the EU! So that was just coincidence - I borrowed the “Nal” from “Nal Hutta” (which I only discovered by googling “Hutt homeworld”), and came up with “Nal Varr” by loosely playing on the sound of “nowhere”. I do like two word planet names - Nal Hutta, Nar Shaddaa. But I thought it might be best to have ROTJ’s new planet remain EU-neutral. While I don’t really care much for the EU, and have only a passing knowledge of wider Star Wars lore, I appreciate that other fans are very well steeped. So, having Jabba’s planet become an established EU world could make it harder for EU fans to get on board - especially as the environmental demands for this new planet would be quite specific.

To illustrate - I actually am aware of Nar Shaddaa, because of the Jedi Knight PC games I played as a kid! It’s literally the only non-movie planet I could name off the top of my head! And so I know that it’s an urban, cityscape world - similar to Coruscant. Seeing as Jabba’s planet in ROTJ couldn’t feasibly be transformed into such an evironment, I figured that calling the planet “Nar Shaddaa” would be confusing for those viewers familiar with Nar Shaddaa’s aesthetic in the EU.

Of course, the movies aren’t beholden to the EU - and definitely shouldn’t be; if anything, it should be the other way around. And I realise that large swathes of the EU are now “Legends”, anyway. But regardless, if we can avoid any and all contradictions with previously established mythology by making Jabba’s planet an innovation, then I think that would be the way to go.

FFS If Episode 3 spoiled Episode 5 of any other series people would go nuts.
The prequels should have been made so they could be watched chronologically or in the order they were made and still maintained the surprise, That part was easy.
Imagine if the Snape flashback to Harry Potter’s first encounter with Voldemort was in the first film.
It would completely ruin our appreciation of the arc of that character.
For many young people their first experience of Star Wars would be a binge run of the movies in number order…poor sods.
Surely the whole point of Revisited is to try to make the films into what they could have/should have been?
That aspect isn’t the most terrible part of the PT but it is bad.

As for Jabba being on Tatooine. I don’t really have a problem with it. Luke was always going to go back to Tatooine. Anyone who says so flippantly "I’m never coming back to this place ever again: is doomed by irony.

Well if we’re trying to portray him a some vile evil gangster, then isn’t the home of the most “wretched hive of scum and villainy” the perfect home for him?

^I don’t recall Mos Eisley ever being referred to as the MOST wretched hive of scum and villainy.

“You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.”

If you can’t find a more wretched hive, logic dictates it is the most. :p
At least that’s how I see it.

So I was re watching ROTJ, and I had a thought. Perhaps in Revisited, Adywan should make the last shot of the three ghosts (the second to last shot in the film currently) the last shot of the film. The “family photo” shot is so cheesy, and I can’t think of any in universe reason why they might be posing like that.

SuperSecretMuffin said:

So I was re watching ROTJ, and I had a thought. Perhaps in Revisited, Adywan should make the last shot of the three ghosts (the second to last shot in the film currently) the last shot of the film. The “family photo” shot is so cheesy, and I can’t think of any in universe reason why they might be posing like that.

I’ve always thought of doing it somewhat like this is I ever made a ROTJ edit. End on that shot, but have it so they dissipate and their “spirits” rise up to the stars with a pan up, as if they are finally at peace and can truly become one with the force. It would be a nice way to show why they don’t appear in the ST if that is the case.

Another idea, which I am kind of iffy if it would work, is that as they are dissipating, both Anakin and Obi-Wan transform into their younger selves (hayden and ewan) briefly before disappearing entirely. Nice way (I think) to tie the trilogies together without raising a crap ton of questions like the SE did adding Hayden throughout the shot and doing nothing with Ben. But again, kind of iffy on that, it’s a cool concept I came up with, but something about it feels inherently wrong and i’m not quite sure if it would work in practice.

The whole point of the prequels was to show how Anakin got in the suit and became Darth Vader. I can’t believe some were expecting the ESB reveal to be preserved. If you’re not gonna show Anakin become Vader, then there’s no point to having prequels. Obviously some people here are fine with that, but since they exist, I really don’t see the point of that change. ESB was released 33 years ago, we all know what happens, and everyone knew what was going to happen when they were making the PT. The only reason people were interested in the PT at all was to see the transformation.

Seeing the transformation is one of the few payoffs of the PT, why take it away?

I agree with that to an extent. I still think it would be nice to find some way to preserve the reveal. But I understand the argument against it. I was once watching a marathon with a friend and his girlfriend, who had never seen the films. We watched 1-6. She already knew the line “Luke I am your father” from pop culture, so that would not have surprised her. But she didn’t know really anything else about the movies. Throughout the prequels she asked a couple times “so who is luke? Where is Darth Vader?” Because all she knew was what she had picked up from pop culture references. She was actually genuinely shocked when anakin turned to the dark side and became Darth Vader. That was a far more impactful reveal to her than “I am your father” would have been had she not seen the prequels first.

ray_afraid said:

The thing is, if it was done right, you could still have Anikin fall and Vader appear in the PT without ruining ESB’s reveal. And if you were watching the films for the first time, ESB’s reveal would make you realize what really happened in the PT, making both moments even stronger.
The PT should seem to line up with what Ben tells Luke in Star Wars. That Vader murdered Anikin.

Ok, but since Vader is Anakin there is no way to tell this story without showing that. You could have Anakin falling in a lava pitt, and then suddendly appears a dude called Vader in a suit, who is supposed to have been Ben’s pupil and the murderer of Anakin. The all idea is dumb (Q2 tried it in his fanedits, it does not work), you can’t “do it right”. No one in the world with a fonctionning brain wouldn’t immediately think “hey, that guy Ben is talking about, it’s Anakin! Why is the screenwriter trying to make a secret of something so obvious ?” and ruin ESB reveal with an entire movie ahead anyway. And that’s the all point of the PT. At least, one among others. Now (I-VI order), the real reveal is: how is Luke going to learn the truth ?
The only thing that could have been kept secret, is Leia being Luke’s sister (Q2 tried it in his fanedits, it kinda works).

edit: nevertheless, GL could have kept the “suited” Vader final look a reveal for the overture of ANH. Anakin could have been last seen is ROTS in some kind of proto suit, an unfinished armor, or just his body lying on the medical center table being fixed (no black cape, no mask).

ray_afraid said:

The thing is, if it was done right, you could still have Anikin fall and Vader appear in the PT without ruining ESB’s reveal. And if you were watching the films for the first time, ESB’s reveal would make you realize what really happened in the PT, making both moments even stronger.
The PT should seem to line up with what Ben tells Luke in Star Wars. That Vader murdered Anikin.

This was my idea to how this could be accomplished. I posted it in the script rewrite subforum a while back.

The idea is that there is a new character named Darth Vader (Name. Not title.). In Episode 1 Vader is a young Jedi apprenticed by Obi-Wan (and I guess Qui-Gon if you really want him there). Feeling insulted by the Jedi for ignoring his talents and potential by pairing him with such a young, inexperienced Jedi like Obi-Wan, he joins the dark side, staging his own death at the beginning of the film, only to reveal himself as the one behind it all toward the end. (If Qui-Gon is there Vader can be the one to kill him, adding more personal rivalry between he and Obi-Wan.)

Obi-Wan meets Anakin, takes it upon himself to train him as a Jedi, yadeeyada. Eventually, Anakin’s pushing of himself and lust for power turns him to the dark side, teaming up with Darth, his enemy, but Palpatine the puppet master’s plan is to pit them against each other for the more powerful one to be his ultimate apprentice.

Everything leads to a three way duel between Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, and Darth Vader atop a massive volcano. Obi-Wan get tossed aside and topples down the side of the volano. Miraculously he survives and watches in horror from a distance as his greatest enemy and his former best friend duke it out atop the volcano.

Both of their lightsabers get tossed aside. They struggle with each other physically. The volcano trembles as the two let out their anger. They push and pull at each other ferociously until they both topple over, disappearing into the fires of the volcano.

Obi-Wan assumes them both dead and leaves, taking Anakin’s saber as a memento of his fallen friend.

Much later we cut back to the edge of the volcano where a charred hand reaches out from the volcano and grasps Vader’s saber lying in the rubble.

Fast forward to A New Hope. Obi-Wan says: “A young Jedi named Darth Vader who was a pupil of mine until he turned evil helped the empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights.” Check.
“He betrayed and murdered your father” Check.
You may feel like Obi-Wan is withholding some information to spare Luke’s feelings, maybe hoping to tell him the whole story later, but you never get the sense that he is outright lying to Luke.

Fast forward to The Empire Strikes Back: “Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.” You’re thinking ‘he’s going to tell Luke that Anakin turned to the dark side before he died to convince Luke to join him’
Then he drops the bomb “No. I am your father.” Suddenly it makes sense. Anakin is the one who crawled out of the volcano, not Darth. Anakin emerged and took over the mantle of Darth Vader, leaving the last trace of his old identity behind him.

Have you ever heard of RETURN OF THE JEDI ? You should watch it. A good movie that contains some elements inconsistent with your synopsis. Nice try though, but I’m afraid GL’s version is better.

"Your father was seduced by the dark side of the force. He ceased to be anakin skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened the good man who was your father was destroyed.

I’m struggling to find anything inconsistent with ROTJ. I’m not trying to be an ass I’m just genuinely wondering what contradicts it.

The fact that ROTJ confirms that Anakin and Darth Vader are the same person contradicts your idea. There is no mention that Anakin took the identity of someone else: he became Vader, he didn’t remplace him.

MalàStrana said:

The fact that ROTJ confirms that Anakin and Darth Vader are the same person contradicts your idea. There is no mention that Anakin took the identity of someone else: he became Vader, he didn’t remplace him.

It doesn’t contradict my idea since nobody ever says he DIDNT take up someone else’s mantle. Does it involve a little retconning of what everybody THOUGHT based on what was said in the movie, yes, but it doesn’t directly contradict what was said. I understand your point. It’s not perfect or ideal, and you’re against preserving the reveal in the first place, so it’s a bit harder to get u on board, but it’s just the only way I can think of that fits the OT and preserves the reveal without making the audience feel like they’re missing important story points.

I’d agree that a Vaderless PT would be absolutley fine. Maybe alluded to in a dream sequence perhaps, but it doesn’t need revealing.

Think about the Force Awakens - and the huge gaps in narrative between itself and ROTJ (ie new characters being born, later being corrupted - mysterious Snoke etc). I feel this works fine - so surely presenting a huge level of mystery between the PT and ANH would work aswell?

Imagine just watching the clone wars series, then seeing the OT. You would have that same realisation of surprise that the Republic, Jedi, Clones and droid armies are all gone. The few expositional conversations would suggest the political changes (as they did for the audience in '77). You would still believe that Anakin was a great guy, and feel gutted when you learn he was murdered.

I reckon the future of PT editting lies in these anthology films. Either creating Anakin biopics in the anthology format, or using anthology films to fill in for Ep3 etc.

The way I did it was cutting Padme naming the children, and cutting Yoda, Obi-Wan and Bail talking about where to send the kids.

Working on v2 of my alternate crawl for “The Phantom Menace” and I did a complete reworking of the paragraphs:

Episode I

THE PHANTOM MENACE

The galaxy is in turmoil.
Generations of peace and
justice have been disrupted
by corruption and greed.

For intentions that are
currently unknown, the Trade
Federation has formed a
blockade of starships around
the small planet of Naboo.

Two Jedi Knights, the
guardians of the Galactic
Republic, have been secretly
dispatched to the blockade
to settle the dispute before the
conflict would end in a war…

My intention is to make the structure similar to that of “A New Hope.”

darth_ender said:

But that fight will be between Obi-Wan and Anakin, and therefore we know that Vader did not “betray and murder” Luke’s father, as Obi-Wan tells him later.  So tim’s right, the whole fight would have to be removed.

No, that lightsaber duel was the best of the entire saga.

It’s okay in places.
But it does become more of a lava lake circus act rather than a fight.
Anakin riding the head of the floaty droid was really silly.
If he is never called Skywalker in the prequels Luke’s dad could have died back at the temple for all we know so that aspect is not really a problem.