John Doom said:
I’m talking about his ability to overall be seen as an actual threat throughout the movie. Please, I don’t want to repeat myself on this : (Well I don’t like repeating myself either but as stated before he was a continued threat to our heroes to the end. His “ultimate” failing being the result of other factors. Other factors you have been actively avoiding. Other factors that have never been in play before a lightsaber duel in the film saga.
I mean if you have to severely injure your antagonist and nerf his abilities so that your protagonist can beat him doesn’t that show how much of a threat he is?
I’m not specifically questioning the reason why he couldn’t kill Finn or Rey, I’m not avoiding the fact he was injuried, which may have weakened him for the final duel. My point is only his ability throught the movie to be seen as a constant threat to the viewer. I already explained you why I don’t think he was, but I’m not going to force you to agree with me, so let’s just end this discussion already or we’re going to repeat our stances forever 😄
Vader’s able to kill someone with Force Choke from thousands of miles away. You think that he wouldn’t master the subtelty of knocking someone out via Force Choking?
We can’t say this for sure because we’ve never seen him chocking someone out in either ANH or TESB.
Also in Lords of The Sith he choked out a main Twi’Lek character at the end of the book and in Revenge of The Sith he Force Choked Padme to unconsciousness.
You can’t use them as examples: both of them were written/shot way after TESB, so the concept of what Vader could do back then was different to Kershner and Kasdan. For example, lightsabers necessarily had to be handled with two hands, while in the PT only one hand is needed. The Force is also used much more frequently during duels in the PT, while this isn’t the case in the OT.
I think he was trying seeking to use him anyway though his abilities showcased in the early stages of the duel only furthered him wanting to test Luke. But he was still trying to freeze him at first and that could have been done by much simpler means. He also could have picked him up, held him down with The Force and froze him that way.
It depends on whether his attempt to push him into the freezer was a first test (so without using all of his abilities, just to test if he was at least able to overcome that one).
John Doom said:
When I saw TFA, I got from the beginning he was just some dude who was constantly being harrassed by almost anyone in that movie (from Poe to Hux)And as you said before, just like Vader in STAR WARS. Someone we both consider a great villain.
You mean Tarkin by Leia? Nobody harrass Vader in Star Wars, except for Motti(?) who nearly gets killed because of this. Every character either respect him or fear him.
certain he would’ve never harmed any of the main characters. And I remember finding this boring, that’s it
^ I’m sure this pleasantly surprised you.
😄 It did, but too late. I remember my reaction was “That fool is finally doing something!”. And then he was suddenly defeated by Rey after her short nap, and I started laughing 😄
Well, in my opinion he’s not constantly an actual threat from the beginning to the end. When I saw TFA, I got from the beginning he was just some dude who was constantly being harrassed by almost anyone in that movie (from Poe to Hux) who can’t take control of the situation, and I lost any interest in him, certain he would’ve never harmed any of the main characters.
So you were wrong…great defense of your opinion!
My impression that he would have never harmed a main character was wrong because of his final duel in the very end of the movie, but my opinion isn’t: he was not a constant threat. As I said, LF could have handled this better by having someone else as the MAIN villain, an actual constant threat, so nobody would’ve said Kylo was not a believable main villain.