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What didn't you like about TFA? SPOILERS — Page 43

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It appears they have considered addressing how the TIEs land and rest in planetary gravity. The full site has some fantastic artwork. I’ll put the link in that thread as well.

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^About bloody time. Seeing them resting on their panels never sat right with me.

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One glaring issue is the lack of explanation of what the First Order or the Republic is in the film. The audience can’t grow any attachment to the Republic as they don’t understand what it is. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t like some long drawn out speech about what the First Order is or how it come to be. I just would have liked some sort of explanation. Heck, it could have even been in the title crawl.

Maz Kanata. She is probably my only major issue with the film. She doesn’t actually add anything new to the story so I am unsure about her appearance in the first place. It’s bad story telling in my opinion when you have a character explicitly tell you everything that is already implied.

Why does Maz have to tell Rey the lightsaber is calling to her when it is glaringly obvious from before? Why does she have to tell Finn that a lightsaber is a weapon when he has already seen one being used before? Why does she have to explain what the force is when Han already did so 5 minutes earlier in the film?

Furthermore, it ruins the pacing to the movie, she is a character that is given all this time and dialogue, yet is nonessential to the plot in any way.

I just don’t understand why she is a part of the movie to be honest.

Also, don’t get me started on how much the CG stands out for her character when even the random background characters in the film are full practical creatures. This applies to Snoke as well.

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Again, how much did we know about the Empire or the Rebellion going into the original film?

Rey is frightened and scared. Maz is trying to reassure her and set her on the right path.

Maz looked pretty darn good in 70mm.

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Where were you in '77?

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nesboy43 said:

Heck, it could have even been in the title crawl.

Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.

With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.

Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts….

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SilverWook said:

Again, how much did we know about the Empire or the Rebellion going into the original film?

Rey is frightened and scared. Maz is trying to reassure her and set her on the right path.

Maz looked pretty darn good in 70mm.

You definitely don’t get much information about the background of the Empire or Rebellion in the original Star Wars. However, we have three films that follow the Rebellion and the Empire (and its eventual demise). For them to almost ignore the ending of Return of the Jedi seems a bit jarring IMO.

Think about the original trilogy though. When Luke enters the cave in Empire Strikes Back and has that terrifying vision we are left to imagine things instead of having Yoda explain what just happened. I am no film critic, but I always believed in the concept of less being more in most situations (which Kasdan seems to have forgotten). Why did Maz have to say the Lightsaber was calling to her, when the audience literally heard it calling to her earlier? Do the writers think the audience is dumb and needs to be told what they just saw a few minutes beforehand? Why does Finn have to be told a lightsaber is a weapon?

It’s not that I am an opponent of Maz’s character design or anything, it’s just that all her dialogue and interactions in the movie do not add anything to the plot and just retell you things you saw earlier.

As for the CG, maybe it was just the theaters I saw it in, but it really did seem to stand out to me. Furthermore, for all the publicity the film received about practical effects, it’s interesting to have two important characters (Maz/Snoke) as CG.

joefavs said:

nesboy43 said:

Heck, it could have even been in the title crawl.

Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.

With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.

Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts….

Yes, I should have clarified this. I do remember that First Order line being in there, but it does not give you background on them. For the most part I usually agree that less is more, but this is one case where I feel there is not enough background for anyone to get an inkling of what the First Order actually is or how they came to be.

Are they ex Imperial workers gone rogue? Did the diminished Empire continue but rebrand itself after the events of Return of the Jedi? Are they imposters trying to be what the Empire once was? How do they have so much money and resources? What became of the Rebellion? Is it the Resistance? Did the Rebellion never further progress? All of these questions are a mystery.

Please keep in mind I am not trying to rag on the entire movie here. I loved the film and saw it 4 times and theaters and am anxiously awaiting the home video release. I just feel that minor changes to the movie could have made it so much better.

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I don’t see how Jedi’s ending was ignored. A lot can happen in thirty years. There was probably a decade or so of peace and prosperity, and any signs the Empire was being rebuilt were laughed off or ignored by those in power.

It’s also very telling we don’t see anyone as old as Tarkin in the New Order. They all seem fairly young. (Perhaps we’ll see some old Imperials higher up in the command structure in the next movie.) Somebody has rebuilt the Empire out of it’s ashes, probably Snoke. There must be systems who had it pretty good under the Empire, who would welcome a return to the good old days, and didn’t join the New Republic.

It’s likely the Rebellion was dismantled over the years by politicians. When the New Order became a menace, the Resistance was born, not so secretly sanctioned by the New Republic. In contrast to the New Order, we have members of the old Rebellion leadership around, Leia and Ackbar.

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Where were you in '77?

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Anchorhead said:

It appears they have considered addressing how the TIEs land and rest in planetary gravity. The full site has some fantastic artwork. I’ll put the link in that thread as well.

I don’t like it. This would require extra motors to fold them, which means extra unnecessary load. It would also make the structure less stable. If (for some strange reason) having an ability to land a fighter in a middle of nowhere was important, it would be better to just use that extra load to make the wings/pannels strong enough to be able to land on them. Less complexity, same effect.

真実

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To the 0P: You seriously have a problem with the dark side of the force being called the darkness. I mean if its your opinion then I am not gone stop you but to me it sounds very trivial

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nesboy43 said:

Think about the original trilogy though. When Luke enters the cave in Empire Strikes Back and has that terrifying vision we are left to imagine things instead of having Yoda explain what just happened. I am no film critic, but I always believed in the concept of less being more in most situations (which Kasdan seems to have forgotten). Why did Maz have to say the Lightsaber was calling to her, when the audience literally heard it calling to her earlier? Do the writers think the audience is dumb and needs to be told what they just saw a few minutes beforehand? Why does Finn have to be told a lightsaber is a weapon?

It’s probably like you said: they felt explaining directly was needed for everyone to understand. It’s not Kasdan’s fault, anyway: it’s become kind of a common practice since some decades ago, especially for blockbuster. It may have to do with the fact they want literally everyone to watch these movies and understand them, possibly even kids (except they put a torture scene right at the beginning of TFA, but anyway…). That or they actually think we’re dumb 😄
It’s a shame, because leaving things not directly explained can add to the experience, because it lets the actual protagonist (that is you, the viewer) fill directly the gaps, without someone else’s assistance. Possibly the reason why Blade Runner’s DC and FC are still so popular, as well as TESB.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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Ghibili said:

To the 0P: You seriously have a problem with the dark side of the force being called the darkness. I mean if its your opinion then I am not gone stop you but to me it sounds very trivial

That’s not even scratching the surface of trivial when it comes to TFA complaints.

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I don’t like that they repeated the cliche trope of having a force-sensitive protagonist fly a spaceship. IT’S A REMAKE!!! bah humbug

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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John Doom said:

nesboy43 said:

Think about the original trilogy though. When Luke enters the cave in Empire Strikes Back and has that terrifying vision we are left to imagine things instead of having Yoda explain what just happened. I am no film critic, but I always believed in the concept of less being more in most situations (which Kasdan seems to have forgotten). Why did Maz have to say the Lightsaber was calling to her, when the audience literally heard it calling to her earlier? Do the writers think the audience is dumb and needs to be told what they just saw a few minutes beforehand? Why does Finn have to be told a lightsaber is a weapon?

It’s probably like you said: they felt explaining directly was needed for everyone to understand. It’s not Kasdan’s fault, anyway: it’s become kind of a common practice since some decades ago, especially for blockbuster. It may have to do with the fact they want literally everyone to watch these movies and understand them, possibly even kids (except they put a torture scene right at the beginning of TFA, but anyway…). That or they actually think we’re dumb 😄
It’s a shame, because leaving things not directly explained can add to the experience, because it lets the actual protagonist (that is you, the viewer) fill directly the gaps, without someone else’s assistance. Possibly the reason why Blade Runner’s DC and FC are still so popular, as well as TESB.

If you look how often (even here) people complain that the origins of the resistance and the first order aren’t explained sufficiently, you can imagine what people would be saying without these exposition scenes.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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People want everything and nothing. Or neither.

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Frank your Majesty said:

If you look how often (even here) people complain that the origins of the resistance and the first order aren’t explained sufficiently, you can imagine what people would be saying without these exposition scenes.

I don’t understand what you mean: not telling (or not explaining enough) it’s different from telling (through expositions) or not telling directly (through symbolism).
I guess those people would like to know more about the background, but they shouldn’t complain: LF just decided to not tell about their origins, probably because they felt it wasn’t needed to understand the plot or the characters, that it could’ve even confused the viewers with too many informations.
On the other hand, to me one thing they should’ve explained better was the relationship between the Republic and the Resistence, because it makes the main characters’ involvement in the plot itself not clear: are they the fighting with the Republic? Are they supported by the Republic? Are they unofficially supported by the Republic? Are they rogues? Since not even Rey or Finn (the viewers) knew about the Resistence, I thought this would’ve just been explained later in the movie, but it didn’t happen, as far as I remember.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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John Doom said:
Since not even Rey or Finn knew about the Resistence

What…For one Rey asks Finn if he’s with The Resistance which indicates she knows of them and it’s downright unreasonable to assume Finn didn’t know of them either seeing as how they’re at war.

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That’s what I meant: just their name and that they were fighting the FO, the same things I knew. Like me, they didn’t know whose side they were (Republic or rogues), so I hoped this would’ve been explained to me/them later. I guess I didn’t choose the right words to explain my thoughts : (

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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Well it doesn’t matter all that much now because there pretty much is no Republic.

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Now that you mention it, the movie didn’t explain clearly this as well: we know the Hosnian system was Republic, but nothing (that I remember) seems to suggest it was the one and only system controlled by the Republic. In short, did Starkiller Base’s attack completely destroy the Republic? I thought it did survive, but now I’m not so sure 😄

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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I think the Hosnian System was the heart of the New Republic and their fleet was located there too. At best there will be a huge power vacuum to which people will be fighting for power in order to rebuild and at worst the Republic is akin to a vegetable.

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John Doom said:

Frank your Majesty said:

If you look how often (even here) people complain that the origins of the resistance and the first order aren’t explained sufficiently, you can imagine what people would be saying without these exposition scenes.

I don’t understand what you mean: not telling (or not explaining enough) it’s different from telling (through expositions) or not telling directly (through symbolism).

What I mean is that it is extremely difficult for filmmakers to anticipate how much exposition the audience wants. “Should we explain where the resistance comes from?” vs. “Should we make it more clear that the lightsaber called to Rey?” what is more important for the current movie? The backgrounds of the two sides can easily be explained in one of the next movies, the lightsaber scene not so much, so they decided to do it that way. Since it’s common practice to explain everything to the audience, I’m glad they at least managed to have one thing left misterious.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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 (Edited)

In general anticipating how much expositions may be needed is difficult, but filmmakers usually shoot new takes providing more informations, if they find it necessary after a test screening.
I see what you mean, though the “common practice” I meant is “explaining everything directly” (that is, through expositions), not just “explaining everything”. You say you’re glad they left the Resistence’s origin (for example) unknown, but that’s not working against this practice, it’s just not telling anything at all 😄 (whether this was a good idea or not, it’s another story).
On a side note, while not explaining the origins of the Republic and the FO was probably intentional because unnecessary to understand the overall plot, I think they actually did try to explain the Resistence’s relationship with the Republic, but I’m 99% sure it was then just cut out along with a deleted scene (probably the one involving Leia), so I don’t think it was really an intentional decision from LF.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201