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What don't you like about TESB?

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We all know that TESB is a great film, in my opinion, the best film of all time, but no film is perfect, everything has flaws.

For me, the biggest detractor of the film is the fact that Han doesn’t just fly the Falcon out through another part of the planet, one not surrounded by Imperial forces, but really, that outs the plot into motion, so I can excuse it.

Everything else is perfect.

Not enough people read the EU.

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Do we know that the rest of the planet wasn’t also surrounded? They called it a blockade if I’m not mistaken, and in this context that would require surrounding the whole planet.

And to answer your question, nothing

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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 (Edited)

I honestly love this film because it has it all but…

I have a few beefs to do with scenes being shuffled about and/or missing shots that complete the sequence. Basically anything that was re-arranged in a nonsense way bugs the hell out of me of what might have been… But I still adore it. The problem I think stems from because it was workprinted, edited and locked (Just like Star Wars) then somehow became unlocked and re-edited and had more music made and then they ran out of time / money released the 70mm… Then slightly edited the 35mm release but I want to see the first edit and the workprint versions of the film.

Something I was meaning to do for quite some time was try to figure out the workprint scene order for Lando, Leia, Chewie, C3-PO and R2-D2 on cloud city. Or something that flows much better…I doubt I will ever get it right (God help me!) I have been trying to figure it out for around 2 years now… I know I will never get it right but I keep going back and trying, and I had another go at it last night. I got closer but I am still a way off.

Here is where I am currently at…

https://vimeo.com/119593326

It’s not right and It probably never will be but it’s more right than what is in the film. It’s also an edit of sorts but really I should be using only gout footage.

If you notice R2-D2 smoking while he is trying to open the door that was an outtake from when he electrocuted himself edited in for his lines so it has to stay in the part it is although it’s not really meant to go there.

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The only things I kind of dislike in TESB are the “asteroid chase” and “space slug” scenes, because you can argue that they are mostly fillers, adding nothing to the plot or the characters. But they’re so well artistically directed, that taking them out would be a crime 😄

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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  1. Rebel escape from Hoth is extremely unlikely and rather fairytale-type silly, considering imperials had a massive fleet blocking the planet.

  2. Han’s decision to pay Jabba after so much time is ridiculous. Waiting for so long would be an insult and he would end up dead whether he would bring the money or not.

But since I am biased I don’t really care too much about these.

真実

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  1. Luke attempting suicide only to be conveniently saved due to plot armor

  2. Han being a bit too antagonistic and sort of creepy towards Leia for their romance to entirely work

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I dislike when people call it TESB. I don’t care if it’s technically correct, it looks weird.

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I don’t like the orange ships at cloud city. If it was just one capsule, it’d be fine, but as it is, it looks silly and ugly.
This doesn’t bother me at all though. In fact, one of the things I like about Star Wars is that not everything looks Ultra-Cool. Some things look a bit dopey and that makes the world a little more real to me.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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ray_afraid said:
He wasn’t committing suicide, he was trusting the force.

It’s still ridiculous no matter what spin you put on it. Plus him attempting to off himself sends a stronger message; a message that he’d rather die than to become an agent of evil.

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 (Edited)

What I don’t like about this movie ? Hum… that its sequel is RETURN OF THE JEDI, and a few technical glitches that could have been easily corrected in 1997-2004-2011. Oh yeah, I’m also not a huge fan of the score we hear when Luke confronts himself on Dagobah.

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TV’s Frink said:

I dislike when people call it TESB. I don’t care if it’s technically correct, it looks weird.

Agreed.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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ray_afraid said:

Lord Haseo said:

  1. Luke attempting suicide only to be conveniently saved due to plot armor

He wasn’t committing suicide, he was trusting the force.

I always got the impression that Luke sacrificed himself in order to not fall to the dark side (this is clearly the case in the novelization, which was Lucas canon). And I hardly see how him being saved by the plot is a bad thing. Plot convenience is kind of a staple if SW, and part of what makes the OT so much fun. I mean ANH is filled with these; Artoo and Threepio conveniently being reunited by the Jawas, ending up at the Lars farm, the R4 droid having a bad motivator, etc.
Luke’s sacrifice makes sense as a part of his character development in ESB as well, but his death would of course have cut the trilogy short, so naturally he conveniently survives.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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The one and only beef I have with TESB is the ambiguity pertaining to how much time Luke spends training with Yoda on Dagobah/Han, Leia, Chewie, and Threepio spends travelling from Hoth to Bespin without a hyperdrive.

Personally, I just run with the idea that several months to a year passes between the Battle of Hoth and the duel on Cloud City, with relativistic time dilation keeping the crew of the Falcon from starving/getting too rank while in-transit to Hoth, but that could have been made clearer in the actual film.

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I’ve heard a lot recently that Luke’s training in ESB was a whopping 2 weeks. The events that take place in the film don’t indicate it taking place over several months.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

The one and only beef I have with TESB is the ambiguity pertaining to how much time Luke spends training with Yoda on Dagobah/Han, Leia, Chewie, and Threepio spends travelling from Hoth to Bespin without a hyperdrive.

Personally, I just run with the idea that several months to a year passes between the Battle of Hoth and the duel on Cloud City, with relativistic time dilation keeping the crew of the Falcon from starving/getting too rank while in-transit to Hoth, but that could have been made clearer in the actual film.

That’s true. I tend to think the Falcon road trip does take a week or two, and Luke’s training lasts several months to a year, because Dagobah is a place so strong with the Force that time doesn’t flow as it does outside. If your familiar with "Dragon Ball Z "it’s like the hyperbolic time chamber. Where I don’t agree with you is the fact the movie doesn’t explain that: I believe this is the inner magic of this movie not to explain something you won’t even spot the first dozens (hundreds ?) of time you watch it. Dagobah is a place out of time, out of space, this is where the saga turns to be so powerful in its mythology. Damn, this movie…

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 (Edited)

There was meant to be a bit more training on Dagobah as seen in the deleted scenes… But It honestly was not much. And it also was not that fitting either fighting with training remotes or cutting up a silver metal bar.

I think the whole idea was Luke left prematurely before completing his training and that is reflected well enough. Unless you put up a card that says 2 weeks later on it there is not much chance to show time passing but a brief montage could have done that perhaps to music.

I even thought about a shot of the planet in space might be able to achieve that time passing effect somehow… But like I said Luke still leaves early anyway so there really is’nt anything to fix.

Or you make it so Luke arrives on Dagobah earlier pushing the the sequences in to a different order, it also was not meant to be on any maps though something that got recycled in attack of the clones. The script has the the film in a very different order of sequence.

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This is incredibly minor, but always slightly bugs me:

Han’s desire to leave the Rebellion to settle things with Jabba doesn’t really make much sense when you think about it.

“If I don’t pay off Jabba the Hutt I’m a dead man.”
“A death mark’s not an easy thing to live with.”

Well… you already have a death mark as a member of the Rebel Alliance. You helped blow up the Death Star and nearly killed Darth Vader. The entire Galactic Empire wants you dead. Yeah, you ran into a bounty hunter on Ord Mantell, but is that really any different from running into a group of stormtroopers or TIE fighters trying to kill you?

You have a pretty good chance of dying in combat regardless of whether there are bounty hunters out to get you. But at least you’re with a group of Rebels, so there’s safety in numbers, and your home is a secret base.

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?

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 (Edited)

Han is only using that as an excuse because he feels he doesn’t belong in this war. This is his way out of the Rebellion that allows him to keep honor. The Rebel officer is just being comprehensive with him. This is a dialogue where what is actually said is not relevant*, only what is unsaid has a meaning, and the 3 characters (Han, Leia, Rebel officer) all understand that. So there is nothing wrong in this dialogue.

  • not relevant for the scene itself (Jabba and stuff), but within the movie it is later used to stage the third act as well as the events of the following movie, because Kasdan et al. were fucking brillant (I still don’t get how he’s failed so much the script for Ep VII. This really is a mistery to me).
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That’s occurred to me and it’s how I’ve tried to reconcile it. But I don’t really see much in the rest of the movie to support the idea that he feels he doesn’t belong in the war, so it seems like you have to take what he says at face value.

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?

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SpilkaBilka said:

But I don’t really see much in the rest of the movie to support the idea that he feels he doesn’t belong in the war

He’s running away the entire movie.

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Dak Ralter’s line “Right now I feel I can take on the whole Empire myself.” bugs me a bit. It is too upbeat and enthusiastic. As if they are kids about to go to an amusement park, not pilots going out to war.

Bringing down AT-ATs with a harpoon seems like a crazy idea too that only a child would come up with … but hey, it worked, apparently.

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Lord Haseo said:

I’ve heard a lot recently that Luke’s training in ESB was a whopping 2 weeks.

Which is a lame concept.

The events that take place in the film don’t indicate it taking place over several months.

“The cave! Remember your failure at the cave!”

“But I’ve learned so much since then!”

IMO, that bit of dialogue hints that something more than two weeks worth of training passed by.