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I want one! — Page 2

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YEAH, MACS LOOK PRETTY. I SAID IT. I'M IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH BOSSK, BECAUSE I'VE HAD A SIMILAR HISTORY WITH pc's AS HE'S HAD. I LOVE MY UP AND RUNNING RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX MAC. I LOVE MY LINUX BASED OS. I SPENT A COUPLE OF MONTHS LOOKING AT DIFFERENT COMPUTERS BEFORE I SETTLED ON A MAC. THE CLOSEST THING THAT I COULD COME TO WHAT I WANTED MY COMPUTER TO DO DO WAS A $3,000.00 SONY HARD DRIVE. THAT PRICE DIDN'T INCLUDE A MONITOR, MOUSE, KEYBOARD, OR SPEAKERS. I PAYED AROUND $2,300.00 FOR MY iMAC WHEN IT CAME OUT. IT HAD EVERYTHING THAT I WANTED AND NEEDED. MACs JUST WORK BETTER FOR ME. pc's WORK BETTER FOR OTHER PEOPLE. I REALLY DON'T CARE. I HAVE WHAT I WANT IN A COMPUTER, AND YOU SHOULD TOO.

"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
I just wanted to mention that a lot of the problems with PC stabilty are because Microsoft refuses to build decent protection into thier browser. Why a company with 20 billion dollars can't spy-ware and ad-ware proof their browsers is beyond me.


Mostly because IE is not a real browser, it's embbeded in the OS kernell. Which is scary, if you think about it.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
I just wanted to mention that a lot of the problems with PC stabilty are because Microsoft refuses to build decent protection into thier browser. Why a company with 20 billion dollars can't spy-ware and ad-ware proof their browsers is beyond me.
Didn't you hear??

Microsoft recently bought a spy-ware software company...Giant Software I think was the name. They are working on developing their own spyware program. The BETA is free right now, but they will probably sell the finished program.

As for why they don't release a secure product, it makes perfect sense. Let the current free product stink, so that you can sell another program to help fix it.

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I can't believe that. I think I'm gonna send my Xbox back to them too, now. With a bomb inside...

Though, the fact that IE is imbedded in the OS explains a heckovalot of problmes I've had, like why IE consistently causes computers to freeze alltogether, and why I just can't delete the cursed thing. Unbelieveable I officially hate Microsoft again now.

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Yeah.. I know it will void the warranty, but I'm too mad to care...



















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Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
THE BRAZILIAN GOVERNMENT IS GETTING RID OF ALL ITS MICROSOFT SOFTWARE. THEY ARE NOW GOING TO A UNIX BASED OS.


I heard about it, it'll be either Linux or our own OS, Freedows.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
... or our own OS, Freedows.


Like the corn chip?

Oh wait, that's "Fritos". Sorry.

Jay, you make some damn good points. Admittedly. And I do place a lot of blame on the developers and support personnel. Most of them don't know what they do. I know I shouldn't blame the format but when their actions so dramatically affect the platform that I'm using, it's hard to not just lump the blame on it. With so many developers and support personnel, etc., etc., ad infinitum out there, how the hell is an average user supposed to know who to go to? Who do you ask for help? And how friggin' long must you sit on the phone once you determine who you should contact?

As a Mac user, I know who to contact immediately. There is one place to go. And I've never had a problem getting through to them. Maybe others have, but I haven't.

I do think Macs are pretty. But I've seen some damn pretty PCs too. "Pretty" is not an attribute solely dominated by Macs. Although they do have a tendency to lead the pack .

As for stability, I never claimed Mac OS was best nor did I claim it was infallible. It has its problems, like any OS. But updates come out very regularly as soon as Mac discovers the problem. It seems like every other week, my little updater icon is bouncing around in my toolbar telling me that I've got a new security update. Now how long do some security holes remain unpatched for Windows? Isn't this the primary reason why so many have switched over to Linux? Isn't the lack of a security fix for IE (which, as I've just learned, is embedded in the Windows software), the reason why so many are switching over to Mozilla's Firefox? People are staying PC, but starting to move away from the company that made it the dominant force that it is. That's not very reassuring to me. And they're doing it in droves. So maybe Windows is stable (I've got XP on my PC at work and I do like it; much better, in fact, than any previous version of Windows I've ever used), but why are these people straying away from it? The entire Brazilian government?!? C'mon. What does that say?

EDITED: I accidentally put in 2000 when I meant to say I have WinXP at work. Whoops.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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Originally posted by: Bossk
So maybe Windows is stable (I've got 2000 on my PC at work and I do like it; much better, in fact, than any previous version of Windows I've ever used), but why are these people straying away from it? The entire Brazilian government?!? C'mon. What does that say?


Uh, that we are running out of money? Nah too obvious.

OK, here's why Microsoft products are bad:

They have to sell software for two kinds of people. There's the companies who own huge multi-processed servers, and there's the regular pc user, people who use computers at home to play games, listen to music, maybe write some spreadsheets. So, they gotta sell two different OS versions, and both must have the same look and feel. Now, they can't sell only one OS at the same price: if they sell it too low, they'll bakrupt. If they sell it too high, home computer users will migrate to linux and mac. So, you create two versions, but how can you justify to some company with a server NOT to buy a windows98, but to buy an expensive win2003 server license? Well, you make sure the SERVER version is stable (and it is), and make sure the home version is BUGGY and slow and crappy. Get it?

Also, as it has been said, people using computers often do not know what they are doing (like, using CD drive as cup holder and such). These people will mess up with regedit and complain their computer doesn't work.

And about security, well, windows based PCs are often hack targets because hackers hate microsoft. You can exploit security problems in a unix and a mac if you want to.

And finally, the x86 processor family is getting old. The pentium processor is based on this +30 year old processor architecture. I mean, Intel has recently reached the freaking light speed limit for their next processor (they can't get to 4ghz)... What we need is a next generation processor, 128-bit RISC...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
And about security, well, windows based PCs are often hack targets because hackers hate microsoft. You can exploit security problems in a unix and a mac if you want to.


Of course they can. I know that as does anyone else. But isn't Microsoft notorious for dragging its heels through the mud when it comes to fixing these security holes? Since Linux is open source, any number of people or organizations are working at any given time on security fixes and they are quickly made available. I have never really heard much in the way of bad news about security fixes for Linux. And I already talked about the frequency of security updates for Mac OS X. No need to beat a dead horse.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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kapgar.com
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One thing you have to remember regarding security flaws and hackers: they go where they can do the most damage. I don't believe for one second that Mac OS has fewer security issues than Windows. What it does have is a much smaller userbase. Hackers like IE, Outlook, and Windows because the overwhelming majority of computer users use these products. If you're a hacker looking to wreak havoc for the fun of it, what applications would you attack? I'd choose the ones most people use.

Security holes are only found by those looking for them. If most hackers (both good and bad) are focused on Windows, that's where the bulk of reported bugs are going to be found.

There are some obvious areas that Microsoft screwed up. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I remember they used to ship Windows with the personal web server turned on by default, with all the associated ports open and responding to pings. It was basically an open invitation to anybody out there who might be listening. Stupid.

MS has gotten much better about security updates. Windows Update has fixes posted regularly now. It doesn't take long for patches to appear once a flaw has been exposed.

You can trust in the fact that if Apple were running the same type of business as Microsoft, they'd be suffering just as much. There are two very different business models at play here, so Apple has a much easier time with certain aspects of their products.

As I said previously, there have been times in the past when I've considered alternatives to Windows, even the PC platform. I usually rule out Macs once I've pieced together what I want and compare prices for comparable performance from a Mac. DAYV's note about a $3000 Sony is a bad representation of the PC landscape. Ever notice that most Sony products are overpriced? Their PCs are no different. An equivalent Dell would probably be $1000 less.

I tried Linux for a while about five years ago. Mandrake distro. Very difficult to get running properly, and once I realized how dependent I was on several Windows apps, I couldn't make a permanent switch. Besides, it kept crashing whenever I used Netscape. Surprise, surprise, the stability of Linux gets flushed down the toilet once you ask it to perform in a consumer environment with consumer-level stresses. Linux is one of those things that the media has blown up into something it's not. It will never replace Windows because once it can do everything Windows does, it will be just as bloated and just as unstable. You can't accommodate everyone's needs and still be lean and mean.

The thing I like best about the PC platform is that I can pick and choose exactly what components I want, right down to the brand of RAM I install. It does take a lot of research, and it's certainly easier for the average user to buy a Mac and do their thing. The market tapped by Apple is a valid one, and I don't look down upon those who would rather buy a box that works so they can spend more time doing things that matter, like playing with their kids or playing video games.

I agree with you 100% that the support structure for PC users simply isn't there. It's up to the company building the machine to help you out, and most are simply incapable of doing so. That's why I like building my own machines. Things rarely go wrong because I make better choices than a manufacturer trying to maximize profits and minimize costs. I buy top-flight hardware and I avoid installing every piece of garbage software I find online. When I do have a problem, it's usually not tough to figure out the cause because I put the thing together and I'm the only one who makes changes. Most people don't have the skill, time, or inclination for such things, and I can't fault them for that.

I take my car to a garage because I don't have the desire to bang around inside the engine when something goes wrong. Could I learn? Sure. But I don't want to, so I trust the mechanic at the dealer to do his job and keep my car running. Most people look at PCs the same way I look at cars. No interest whatsoever in knowing how it does what it does; they just want it to do it.

As for the Brazilian government, keep in mind that cost is a huge factor in many Linux implementations. Large groups can save millions by dropping Windows and its associated applications, both of which carry hefty license fees. Having worked with inept middle and upper management for the last five years, I can tell you that they're not swayed by performance, but by political relationships and money. Tell them they'll save a bunch of money, and they'll go for it--as long as it doesn't piss off too many people.

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Originally posted by: ricarleite

OK, here's why Microsoft products are bad:

They have to sell software for two kinds of people. There's the companies who own huge multi-processed servers, and there's the regular pc user, people who use computers at home to play games, listen to music, maybe write some spreadsheets. So, they gotta sell two different OS versions, and both must have the same look and feel. Now, they can't sell only one OS at the same price: if they sell it too low, they'll bakrupt. If they sell it too high, home computer users will migrate to linux and mac. So, you create two versions, but how can you justify to some company with a server NOT to buy a windows98, but to buy an expensive win2003 server license? Well, you make sure the SERVER version is stable (and it is), and make sure the home version is BUGGY and slow and crappy. Get it?


A very invalid comparison considering Windows 98 is seven years old and an extrememly different piece of software from Windows 2003 Server, which is the latest and greatest. You may as well compare Mac OS X to OS 6.3 or whatever. Nevermind also that the "professional" level Windows OS (Windows NT) and the "consumer" version (Windows 95/98/ME) were very different products under the hood--with very different levels of reliability--until the backbone of Windows 2000 (which was actually the next version of Windows NT, not Win98 as the name would imply) was incorporated into Windows XP. Windows 98 was absolute garbage, and I hated using it. WinME was no better, being based on the same kernel as 95/98. Now, XP Home, XP Pro, and Win2k3 Server are very similar at their cores (based on the NT codebase), and all are very stable and reliable.
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MTFBWY…A

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Jay, I know it was not a fair comparison, I only used win98 as an example to the huge gap there was between the home and office version of the OS. Of course, XP is a lot more stable nowadays, but Microsoft KEEPS pulling the "server/home" trick to get more money. One example of this is: Try installing PWS or IIS on XP Home. You can't!

About Linux: we've tried to implement Linux on all of our pc stations about 6 months ago where I work, I can't go into details about it but the whole thing was a huge disaster. But you try to tell that to IBM and to that albino kid of theirs. By the way, if you ever go to the IBM headquarters, you'll notice they all bash microsoft as much as they can, but every employee has a thinkpad with windows on it.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: Jay
... as long as it doesn't piss off too many people.


And even then...

"Albino Kid"? Huh?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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He is featured in some IBM-linux ads. He's usually seated in a chair, silent, in a bizarre place such as a forest or a desert or the beach or an office. Couldn't find a good pic of it, but this is him:

http://www.scdc.sccs.swarthmore.edu/documents/revos.png
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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God, I hope Linux is more than just a creepy nine year old.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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kapgar.com
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This is an old pic, he's about... 15, 16 on the recent ads. There's a huge creepy poster of him on the local IBM headquarters.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Talk about an argument in favor of telecommuting.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com